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Re: Tesla Model 3 Owners Only - Thoughts? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #5115290 05/25/19 10:23 AM
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DoubleWasp Offline
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It's different in that if I become truly dissatisfied with the operations of any of those devices, I can easily dispose of them or modify the programming so they are no longer an issue.

Car? Not so much.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio
Re: Tesla Model 3 Owners Only - Thoughts? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #5116979 05/27/19 07:03 AM
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PWMDMD Offline
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I've test driven the Model 3 and was still left with the following thoughts:

1. I will never trust Autopilot...ever.

2. It would be an easier sell for me if they offered a range extender version - an ICE powering a generator to allow for long trips. This may not be very popular but I think it is an option that needs to be considered before this technology is truly accepted by the masses. Well that or 5min fully rechargeable batteries.


Current: 2019 Lexus RX 350 (Mobil AFE 0W-30 and Toyota OEM Filter) and 2018 Honda Pilot Touring (Mobil 1 EP 0W-20 and Fram ULTRA XG7317)
Re: Tesla Model 3 Owners Only - Thoughts? [Re: JeffKeryk] #5117128 05/27/19 09:56 AM
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Burt Offline
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Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by Burt
Jeff

Why do you say that solar panels are the way to go for recharging? Most cars are gone during the day and recharge at night. I understand the feel good aspect of using solar, but isn't equally beneficial whether you use the electricity to power your home or sell power to the grid?

Yes, as 4WD posted. You bank power through the grid.
I send from 20 to 35 kWh to PGE daily and use much less. Generation is towards the lower end in the winter months.
I true up once a year; my cost will be $10 per month to be on the grid and zero for electricity.

Of course sunny Silicon Valley is a natural for solar power; other places not as much so.

The larger point is how to charge for free or close to it.
In my area, work and local cities subsidize charging as a way to encourage going green.
Even the evil PGE has plans for EVs.

You can see some people have trouble with the solutions; others see opportunity.
You have to be creative and open minded. Things are changing; they always are.

EVs are not for everyone.


I forgot that you're from California and they look at things differently there. If you don't see a tailpipe, then it doesn't pollute. If you import coal generated power from other states, that doesn't count. If you charge with power that is generated by hydrocarbons on the margin, but put power on the grid at other times, most of the rest of us look at it as two independent transactions, but in California that thinking is called being close-minded.

I look forward to the day that I can buy an electric car. It seems like a natural progression and that everything else has gone electronic. Gasoline vehicles are highly optimized Rube Goldberg devices that have had a good run. But I will wait to buy until a manufacturer shows that it can profitably make everyday cars on a sustainable basis. There is a certain Enron-esque feel to Tesla that large companies with lots of smart people are following a pied piper betting that battery cost will come down to make them economic. I'm still waiting. This was supposed to happen quite a few years ago and Tesla is struggling even with tax credits, bought a factory for a song and no dealership overhead.

One think tank said that Tesla made a fundamental mistake of making a luxury car with charging stations for cross country driving - a limited market and a gimmick. Instead they should have focused on 160 mile range for return to base commuting a more modestly price CUV. Of course the closes things to that are the Bolt and Leaf and they're not exactly flying off the lots.


2011 RX350 61k miles
2015 Fiesta SFE eco-boost 32k miles
Re: Tesla Model 3 Owners Only - Thoughts? [Re: PWMDMD] #5117190 05/27/19 11:17 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
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1JZ_E46 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by PWMDMD
I've test driven the Model 3 and was still left with the following thoughts:

1. I will never trust Autopilot...ever.

2. It would be an easier sell for me if they offered a range extender version - an ICE powering a generator to allow for long trips. This may not be very popular but I think it is an option that needs to be considered before this technology is truly accepted by the masses. Well that or 5min fully rechargeable batteries.


Couldn’t disagree more with both counts, but to each their own. As Jeff said, Tesla’s aren’t for everyone. At least not yet.


2019 Tesla Model 3 SR+
2016 Countryman S: Castrol 0W-40
Re: Tesla Model 3 Owners Only - Thoughts? [Re: Burt] #5117209 05/27/19 11:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
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JeffKeryk Offline
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Posts: 1,943
Originally Posted by Burt
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by Burt
Jeff

Why do you say that solar panels are the way to go for recharging? Most cars are gone during the day and recharge at night. I understand the feel good aspect of using solar, but isn't equally beneficial whether you use the electricity to power your home or sell power to the grid?

Yes, as 4WD posted. You bank power through the grid.
I send from 20 to 35 kWh to PGE daily and use much less. Generation is towards the lower end in the winter months.
I true up once a year; my cost will be $10 per month to be on the grid and zero for electricity.

Of course sunny Silicon Valley is a natural for solar power; other places not as much so.

The larger point is how to charge for free or close to it.
In my area, work and local cities subsidize charging as a way to encourage going green.
Even the evil PGE has plans for EVs.

You can see some people have trouble with the solutions; others see opportunity.
You have to be creative and open minded. Things are changing; they always are.

EVs are not for everyone.


I forgot that you're from California and they look at things differently there. If you don't see a tailpipe, then it doesn't pollute. If you import coal generated power from other states, that doesn't count. If you charge with power that is generated by hydrocarbons on the margin, but put power on the grid at other times, most of the rest of us look at it as two independent transactions, but in California that thinking is called being close-minded.

I look forward to the day that I can buy an electric car. It seems like a natural progression and that everything else has gone electronic. Gasoline vehicles are highly optimized Rube Goldberg devices that have had a good run. But I will wait to buy until a manufacturer shows that it can profitably make everyday cars on a sustainable basis. There is a certain Enron-esque feel to Tesla that large companies with lots of smart people are following a pied piper betting that battery cost will come down to make them economic. I'm still waiting. This was supposed to happen quite a few years ago and Tesla is struggling even with tax credits, bought a factory for a song and no dealership overhead.

One think tank said that Tesla made a fundamental mistake of making a luxury car with charging stations for cross country driving - a limited market and a gimmick. Instead they should have focused on 160 mile range for return to base commuting a more modestly price CUV. Of course the closes things to that are the Bolt and Leaf and they're not exactly flying off the lots.


Thanks for all the kind words.


2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
2018 Lexus RX450h
2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport
2006 Acura TSX
2001 Tundra Access Cab, 1998 Accord LX, 1968 Corvette L36 Roadster, 1965 Olds 4-4-2
Re: Tesla Model 3 Owners Only - Thoughts? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #5117227 05/27/19 12:08 PM
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Cujet Offline
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I will be driving my 2003 X-Type from PA to FL in the next few weeks. I'm seriously considering the Model 3, but I'd have to change my ways...... AND lifestyle changes are not easy (or possible) when they are part of my employment.

I left PA this morning, drove to an airport in Northwest NJ, drove to an airport in upstate NY, and will eventually head to Atlanta via the airlines out of a NY airport. A model 3 can't do this and sit in airport parking for 2 weeks. Then make it back to upstate NY then PA.

Sure, I can wait for an hour in a poorly located charging station. But I already get home near midnight as it is.


People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
Re: Tesla Model 3 Owners Only - Thoughts? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #5117723 05/27/19 10:45 PM
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DoubleWasp Offline
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The "negatives" of electric cars are 99% the responsibility of corporate bull feces marketing. If they would just market the cars for the applications they actually fit, there would be few "negatives" about them.

If I marketed a helicopter as the perfect grocery getter, or a Euclid earthmover as the perfect city commute, there would be a lot of "negatives" for those vehicles too.

Ultimately, an electric car is an incredible 3-season local commuter.

If your job takes you across multiple northern states in January and you live in an apartment, it completely sucks.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio
Re: Tesla Model 3 Owners Only - Thoughts? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #5117729 05/27/19 10:58 PM
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1JZ_E46 Offline OP
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Well said, although the gap will continue to narrow as infrastructure builds out, charging speeds increase, and battery density increases. Only a matter of time.


2019 Tesla Model 3 SR+
2016 Countryman S: Castrol 0W-40
Re: Tesla Model 3 Owners Only - Thoughts? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #5117806 05/28/19 04:03 AM
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DoubleWasp Offline
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Meh. Law of diminishing returns. When the horseless carriage first hit the scene, it was considered extremely environmental. No dead horses left in the streets, no feces collections, no accidental genocide from feces contamination of water supply (yes, people forget that the "organic" solution was extremely dirty), and no constant spread of animal born diseases and related pest problems.

Then as it spread out, we were forced to confront new problems. BEV is a fringe tech that is essentially a mouse crossing a stone bridge. Once society and the environment have to bear the full weight of the beast, the whole story will change.


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio
Re: Tesla Model 3 Owners Only - Thoughts? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #5119326 05/29/19 02:08 PM
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Vikas Offline
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Don't worry, by the time EVs are so big, we will have teleporting perfected. We will take all your bits, put it on the internet and will rebuild you using 3-d printer at the remote location of you choice.

You think that will not happen in next 100 years? Would you like to bet me on that scenario?

Re: Tesla Model 3 Owners Only - Thoughts? [Re: Vikas] #5119371 05/29/19 03:11 PM
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JeffKeryk Offline
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Originally Posted by Vikas
Don't worry, by the time EVs are so big, we will have teleporting perfected. We will take all your bits, put it on the internet and will rebuild you using 3-d printer at the remote location of you choice.

You think that will not happen in next 100 years? Would you like to bet me on that scenario?

It's already happening. Star Trek. Live long and prosper.

Plus, your Performance Model 3 will still be faster and waaaaaay more fun.


2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
2018 Lexus RX450h
2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport
2006 Acura TSX
2001 Tundra Access Cab, 1998 Accord LX, 1968 Corvette L36 Roadster, 1965 Olds 4-4-2
Re: Tesla Model 3 Owners Only - Thoughts? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #5119515 05/29/19 05:44 PM
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Vikas Offline
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Nahh, I expect 0-60 under 1 second in less than a decade; P3D will be very slow by that standard.

Seriously, by the time electric vehicles become "little mouse" that the poster was referring to, a private vehicle would be as rare as private camel being used for individual transportation.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Owners Only - Thoughts? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #5119552 05/29/19 06:18 PM
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JeffKeryk Offline
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Don't know nuthin' about little mouses or camels.
Half the time I don't know what you guys are talking about, but it sure sounds cool!


2018 Tesla Model 3, Medium Range Battery
2018 Lexus RX450h
2013 Lexus GS350 F Sport
2006 Acura TSX
2001 Tundra Access Cab, 1998 Accord LX, 1968 Corvette L36 Roadster, 1965 Olds 4-4-2
Re: Tesla Model 3 Owners Only - Thoughts? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #5120398 05/30/19 03:30 PM
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DoubleWasp Offline
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Private transport can only end by putting an end to rural housing and expansion. Such will be necessary for the end of manual driving as well.

Let's not even get into a complete revolution of the evacuation protocol for natural disasters and such.

In 2006, there were large swaths of Florida without power for months. I can't imagine an all-electric, all automated, all public system would have fared well.

A lot of the future theories fail to consider a few major factors:

-Not everyone lives in a major city
-We are never ever going to force everyone to live in one
-Things don't always work out the way they are expected to
-These systems cannot work unless we force everyone to be 100% reliant on The State

Ironically, we would need the very Soviet Communist system that we destroyed in order to make the all-encompassing systems work.

From a logistical standpoint, we would have to completely defeat Murphy's Law and bridge gaps that even science fiction hasn't begun to address.

In both Stars; Wars and Trek, people still move around in refuelable transport that requires a human pilot. That's not a good sign for the future ideal of Skynet moving people from place to place entirely under its control. Teleportation is an unreliable technology distrusted by many.

In the 1950's, 2019 was supposed to be an era of us living in residential aerodromes and flying place to place. Long distance commercial transport was supposed to at Mach 6.

We'd like to think our current ambitions are not as stupid as that, but guess what?


07 Lincoln Navigator M1 0w-40/FU
68 Charger R/T / Supercharged 440 VR1/DBL7349
07 Ram 3500 4x4 / Cummins 6.7 /DBL7349
17 Maserati GranTurismo Cabrio
Re: Tesla Model 3 Owners Only - Thoughts? [Re: 1JZ_E46] #5121180 05/31/19 11:05 AM
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SteveSRT8 Online Content
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^^^Haw, perspective is a terrible thing, eh?

The EV's currently enjoy a consumer "glow" due to their uniqueness. Expect that to fade as they become more common and the regular folks discover they have their own shortcomings. I totally agree that for the short hop commuter they are golden as long as you have a place to charge. I wonder why I keep hearing that our grid is unable to support mass ownership?

Just as said above, to each their own. I am no more under any obligation to approve/endorse your electric car than you are to do so for my RAM, Sig Car, or the various vans and pickups in my lot. Personally I dread the thought of self driving cars and have carefully avoided all the driver assistance garbage on new vehicles...


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