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Gas Mileage #5116018
05/26/19 07:11 AM
05/26/19 07:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,599
Elizabethtown, Pa
Al Offline OP
Al  Offline OP

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,599
Elizabethtown, Pa
Yea one more thread out of millions. Just so amazing yow much better gas mileage you can get using a light pedal and not having so sit in traffic (duh)
Comparing my '19 Crosstrek 2.0 to my '18 Froester 2.0. ..Starting with engine cold on a 70 degree day on a 4 mile course I can get 40mph on the Trek and 30 on the XT. Obviously this is very very careful driving. Country road and 2 stops. If there were a vehicle in back of my he would be [censored] but I did the 35 to 45 mph speed limit.

Just driving normally will yield 21 on the XT and 28 on the Trek. So we are looking at 30% savings on the XT 30% saving on the Trek (no I did not fudge the numbers. I considered changing one to make it look better..lol) with very very careful driving. Its certainly reasonable that one could get close to 20% savings with just prudent driving.

Obviously under many conditions this option is not possible. And note that the "very very careful" driving situation involved taking the engine temperature from 70 to about 175F.

Nationally it would appear that the U.S. could save 10% of the 385 million gallons per day or 35 million gallons or 100 million dollars. Probably close to a buck a day per "average" driver LOL

Thanks on this board to all who serve(d) USA Canada

Last edited by Al; 05/26/19 07:14 AM.

Re: Gas Mileage [Re: Al] #5116057
05/26/19 07:57 AM
05/26/19 07:57 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,936
N.H, U.S.A.
ARCOgraphite Offline
ARCOgraphite  Offline

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 12,936
N.H, U.S.A.
Turbos are tuned rich and don't make much torque off boost. My wife gets over 33 ave on her Crosstrek. Good trans and engine tuning. The Fuji CVT locks up the little torque converter IMMEDIATELY when under way ( <10mph) It would do even better if it didn't have the aggressive tip-in to make it feel peppy. Hers is not D.I.

My new lease VW gets low 40's around town with careful driving - but not so sluggish as to PO the person behind you.

Not bad for a turbo. And better than anything we've owned. The only thing that came close was a mid 80's dodge colt 4 speed manual with a stratified lean burn engine. That avereaged around 37mpg.
Back to the VW - Under boost the instant MPG is Around 7mpg. so you have to stay out of it. The big downside is the engine is very agricultural, coarse and boring when back pedaling it. Too bad the car handles like a 62 mercury comet. It does stick once it keels over though - Which the' Comet didn't smile

Last edited by ARCOgraphite; 05/26/19 07:59 AM.

2019 VW Jetta S,6M OCI#0 3107mi-Castrol Edge Prof? VW508+OE Filter; '17 Subaru Crosstrek CVT OC#6 43467mi-Valvoline Adv 0w20 + SOA Filter
Re: Gas Mileage [Re: Al] #5116124
05/26/19 08:53 AM
05/26/19 08:53 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,687
OH
fdcg27 Online content
fdcg27  Online Content

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 16,687
OH
I've observed this personally.
A 10% fuel economy gain is easily achieved with careful and attentive driving.
How many people zoom around you on the way to a red light and then brake hard to stop?
Then they wonder why they need brakes and tires so often as well as why the fuel economy they see sucks.


18 Accord Hybrid 10K HGMO 0W-20
17 Forester 24K VME 0W-20
12 Accord LX 115K SSO 0W-20
09 Forester 95K M1HM 10W-30
01 Focus ZX3 118K PP 5W-20
96 Accord LX 104K T5 10W-30
95 318i
Re: Gas Mileage [Re: Al] #5116130
05/26/19 08:59 AM
05/26/19 08:59 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,883
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Offline
SubieRubyRoo  Offline

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,883
The land of USA-made Subies!
Al, I'm currently working on the exact same thing with my 2 Subies, which are even closer brethren than yours: 05 Outback and 07 Impreza, both with EJ253s and 4EATs. My Impreza is currently getting about 32.9mpg with me driving it to work and back (23 miles each way, 7 stop signs, no lights) and my wife is getting around 22.9mpg in the Outback (much shorter trips, heavier foot, nearly all in-town driving). However, when I drive the Outback on my work route, I usually put down about 28.2mpg, and when I bring up this 5+ mpg discrepancy between our driving habits, I am met with an eye roll.

One thing I don't understand though; for a car that is only a couple hundred pounds heavier, the Outback is programmed to shift at much higher RPMs per throttle opening than the Impreza. Under feather throttle, both will shift into OD right around 28-30 mph, but under say 1/4 - 3/8 throttle the Impreza will shift around 3400 rpm and the Outback will shift around 4400 rpm (matching butt dyno acceleration rates). I know there is a very slight discrepancy in HP & torque due to the camshaft phasers on the 07, but it seems the Outback revs excessively and definitely holds the lower gear way too long when using resume on the cruise control. I've even done a hard clear of transmission learning using FreeSSM on both cars and still get the same results. The way I drive the Impreza nets a roughly 50% mileage increase over what the wife gets in the Outback!!

Re: Gas Mileage [Re: Al] #5116131
05/26/19 09:00 AM
05/26/19 09:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,804
Canyon County Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,804
Canyon County Idaho
Have you ever heard of the CAFE standards?


2015 F150 2.7
2018 F350 6.2
Re: Gas Mileage [Re: Al] #5116188
05/26/19 10:06 AM
05/26/19 10:06 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,973
KY
MCompact Offline
MCompact  Offline

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,973
KY
I have a 12 mile commute; traffic is usually light but I rarely see north of 65 mph. Most days I take the Clubman and I've seen as high as 40+ mpg for the round trip. In contrast, the 2er might hit the low 30s.
The only real downside to the Clubman is that I have to park it next to my assistant's Cayman S...


Mine:
2014 M235i
2009 Cooper Clubman
1999 Wrangler Sahara
1995 318ti Club Sport

Wife's:
2015 X1 xDrive28i M Sport


Son's
2009 328i

Buy what makes you smile...
Re: Gas Mileage [Re: Al] #5116202
05/26/19 10:16 AM
05/26/19 10:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,061
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,061
Cincinnati, OH, USA
I can consistently get 25 MPG in the MGM in my sig-IF I can get out on the back roads & maintain 55-60 MPH with a light foot. Which would get me KILLED on the local interstates!


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: Gas Mileage [Re: Al] #5116206
05/26/19 10:20 AM
05/26/19 10:20 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 614
NWA/SWMO
Ws6 Offline
Ws6  Offline

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 614
NWA/SWMO
Originally Posted by Al
Yea one more thread out of millions. Just so amazing yow much better gas mileage you can get using a light pedal and not having so sit in traffic (duh)
Comparing my '19 Crosstrek 2.0 to my '18 Froester 2.0. ..Starting with engine cold on a 70 degree day on a 4 mile course I can get 40mph on the Trek and 30 on the XT. Obviously this is very very careful driving. Country road and 2 stops. If there were a vehicle in back of my he would be [censored] but I did the 35 to 45 mph speed limit.

Just driving normally will yield 21 on the XT and 28 on the Trek. So we are looking at 30% savings on the XT 30% saving on the Trek (no I did not fudge the numbers. I considered changing one to make it look better..lol) with very very careful driving. Its certainly reasonable that one could get close to 20% savings with just prudent driving.

Obviously under many conditions this option is not possible. And note that the "very very careful" driving situation involved taking the engine temperature from 70 to about 175F.

Nationally it would appear that the U.S. could save 10% of the 385 million gallons per day or 35 million gallons or 100 million dollars. Probably close to a buck a day per "average" driver LOL

Thanks on this board to all who serve(d) USA Canada

Wow. I really expected better from the Forester than 21mpg being driven normally.


2019 CX5 Grand Touring Reserve
Re: Gas Mileage [Re: Al] #5116237
05/26/19 11:02 AM
05/26/19 11:02 AM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 504
Georgia
RDY4WAR Offline
RDY4WAR  Offline

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 504
Georgia
On previous trips out of town, I've typically just set the cruise control in the Tahoe at 75 mph, and let it do the work. The best it ever got like that, in cool weather, no AC or heat going, and just me in it was 19.12 mpg. This trip I'm on now, I've been keeping it closer to 65 mph, coasting as much as possible, letting it drop off 5 mph or so going uphill, saving acceleration for downhill, and using as little gas or brake pedal as necessary. Loaded down with 5 people, luggage, food/drinks, AC going the entire way, and it managed 21.87 mpg. That's over a 14% improvement and saved me over $30 on the round trip.


"He who is without oil, shall throw the first rod." - Compressions 9:1
Re: Gas Mileage [Re: Al] #5116281
05/26/19 11:39 AM
05/26/19 11:39 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 34,523
ME
eljefino Offline
eljefino  Offline

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 34,523
ME
My prius is set up for slower= better. I've pulled some amazing MPG stuck behind a school bus. LOL

Re: Gas Mileage [Re: Al] #5116318
05/26/19 12:13 PM
05/26/19 12:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,506
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,506
Great Lakes
Originally Posted by Al
Just driving normally will yield 21 on the XT and 28 on the Trek. So we are looking at 30% savings on the XT 30% saving on the Trek

Be careful when using MPG figures to calculate savings %. It is misleading because we in the US insist on measuring miles per gallon instead of gallons per mile. This is why the newer EPA window stickers also show fuel consumption in gallons per 100 miles, alas, we are too accustomed to MPG to even look at them. smile

In reality, a jump from 21 MPG to 28 MPG is only about 25% savings, not 33% that the MPG math would have you believe.

It might help to look at it from a a distance perspective. Let's take 100 miles:

If you average 21 MPG, you'll need 4.76 gallons of fuel to go 100 miles.
If you average 28 MPG, you'll need 3.57 gallons of fuel to go 100 miles.

When you do the math, that's a 25% reduction in fuel needed, or 25% savings.


https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/label/learn-more-gasoline-label.shtml

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a12367/4324986/



'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (PUP 0W-40 SRT)
Re: Gas Mileage [Re: Quattro Pete] #5116387
05/26/19 01:58 PM
05/26/19 01:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,580
America's Dairyland
LotI Offline
LotI  Offline

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,580
America's Dairyland
Thanks for pointing this out Pete. I’ve been preaching g/100mi for years(or l/100k). Makes more sense when comparing vehicles.

I’ve also been talking about SAE grades, not weights. But that’s uphill too!


03 Honda Interceptor
11 Kawasaki KLR 650
12 Ford E450
17 VW GTI
[IMG]http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-us/803455.png[/IMG]
Re: Gas Mileage [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #5116432
05/26/19 02:56 PM
05/26/19 02:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,599
Elizabethtown, Pa
Al Offline OP
Al  Offline OP

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 18,599
Elizabethtown, Pa
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Al, I'm currently working on the exact same thing with my 2 Subies, which are even closer brethren than yours: 05 Outback and 07 Impreza, both with EJ253s and 4EATs. My Impreza is currently getting about 32.9mpg with me driving it to work and back (23 miles each way, 7 stop signs, no lights) and my wife is getting around 22.9mpg in the Outback (much shorter trips, heavier foot, nearly all in-town driving). However, when I drive the Outback on my work route, I usually put down about 28.2mpg, and when I bring up this 5+ mpg discrepancy between our driving habits, I am met with an eye roll.

One thing I don't understand though; for a car that is only a couple hundred pounds heavier, the Outback is programmed to shift at much higher RPMs per throttle opening than the Impreza. Under feather throttle, both will shift into OD right around 28-30 mph, but under say 1/4 - 3/8 throttle the Impreza will shift around 3400 rpm and the Outback will shift around 4400 rpm (matching butt dyno acceleration rates). I know there is a very slight discrepancy in HP & torque due to the camshaft phasers on the 07, but it seems the Outback revs excessively and definitely holds the lower gear way too long when using resume on the cruise control. I've even done a hard clear of transmission learning using FreeSSM on both cars and still get the same results. The way I drive the Impreza nets a roughly 50% mileage increase over what the wife gets in the Outback!!

Sorry. I must have had too much CBD on my neck when I posted.
The XT gets 24+ and it looks like with similar driving the XV will get 31 in every day driving. duh

BTW I can relate to what you were saying about the wife. I get at least 10% better gas mileage than her..mainly bc she doesn't coast at all when stopping. Uses breaks at the last few seconds. Yes I tried to change her. smirk

And the mileage you are getting with the EJ engine is fabulous. my 08 Forester got almost exactly the same as the XT gets now. On a trip it was difficult to impossible to get 31 mpg.

Took a 130 mile trip this morning with the XV, after allowing for 3 mpg consumption readout it was 36.9 mpg. Not this is with very conservative driving.The XT might get 29

Last edited by Al; 05/26/19 02:58 PM.

Re: Gas Mileage [Re: eljefino] #5116504
05/26/19 04:40 PM
05/26/19 04:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,061
Cincinnati, OH, USA
bullwinkle Offline
bullwinkle  Offline

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,061
Cincinnati, OH, USA
Originally Posted by eljefino
My prius is set up for slower= better. I've pulled some amazing MPG stuck behind a school bus. LOL
That's where the big MPG is-slowest speed it will hold OD & keep the converter locked, drafting off a bigger vehicle. I remember C&D winning the MPG competition when the Insight first came out by modding the back of an Excursion & following very, VERY closely!


06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4(FG Venturi), 93 GMC C3500 6.2, 89 F-450 7.3, 98 XJ 4.0(XG8A), 05 xB(XG3600), 18 Transit 3.7, 03 Merc Grand Marquis 4.6 2V(XG2)
Re: Gas Mileage [Re: Al] #5116507
05/26/19 04:44 PM
05/26/19 04:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,390
Jupiter, Florida
Cujet Online content
Cujet  Online Content

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,390
Jupiter, Florida
The time saved by going fast is, quite simply, amazingly cheap.

Like many, I’m nearly obsessed by fuel economy. I’ve even modded cars for significantly better MPG.

However, time is the whole of your capital. Anything that gives me extra free time has great value.

So, I’m much more interested in going fast economically. I have no interest in spending an hour to save $3


People who count on their fingers should maintain a discreet silence.
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