How clean is the new oil you use?

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by demarpaint
It wouldn't surprise me if disgruntled employees taint the oil in those tanks too. Maybe the boss [censored] them off, maybe they hate the world. Dump soda in the tank, a bit of dirt, etc. In my younger years prior to going into business for myself I worked with some pretty spiteful guys. So there isn't much that surprises me.

Quietly keeps using Amsoil.

 

[PandaBear]

I wouldn't worry about those "particles" in new oil, because your engine will generate way more than the oil came with, and would be filtered out over time by the oil filter.

 

[K20FA5]

Thanks OP for these VOAs. Very interesting!

 

[Imp4]

If we take it as a given they these contamination levels are different from one another, the separate question that then needs to he asked is:

"Does this difference matter in the given application?"

In all likelihood, the answer is an emphatic "No".

Putting it another way, yes these values are different from one another. So what?!?

How does the fact that one has a higher particle count impact my application???

It doesn't.

 

[kschachn]

Plus it depends a lot on the particle composition. Something tells me they are benign but without SEM/EDX I don't know how you would know.

 

[Chris142]

Our pep boys uses those 6 gallons boxes of oil. The container they use to fill your car sits next to the boxes,in the wind with dirt blowing all over.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by Chris Meutsch
This seems like a 1st-world problem to me.......



It is and it doesn't affect reliability.

 

[addyguy]

Cars and trucks live long, uneventful lives on nothing but bulk jobber oil changes and cheap filters. Millions and millions of them.

Interesting, but not entirely surprising given the fast pace of the industry. Just not an issue.

 

[Blueskies123]

You should show this to the service manager. It could be the local distributor is ripping off the dealer.

 

[Talent_Keyhole]

Originally Posted by PandaBear
I wouldn't worry about those "particles" in new oil, because your engine will generate way more than the oil came with, and would be filtered out over time by the oil filter.



How much less particulates would the engine generate without the addition of these potentially wear producing particulates from the start? I am not even talking about the 10-20% of the oil that remains in the engine,

99% of the hard particulates in the same VOA are less than 20 microns. What percentage of these will be caught by a filter that has an absolute efficiency of 25-30 microns?

 

[Talent_Keyhole]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Plus it depends a lot on the particle composition. Something tells me they are benign but without SEM/EDX I don't know how you would know.



Given the industrial environment and manner in which they made their way to my oil pan, it is a fair assumption they are not benign. The numbers alone are enough for me and others to make a better choice.

 

[Talent_Keyhole]

Originally Posted by Imp4
If we take it as a given they these contamination levels are different from one another, the separate question that then needs to he asked is:

"Does this difference matter in the given application?"
In all likelihood, the answer is an emphatic "No".

Putting it another way, yes these values are different from one another. So what?!?

How does the fact that one has a higher particle count impact my application???

It doesn't.


Granted this oil is not going into the 10 MegaWatt powerplant that supports NORAD in Colorado Springs, but in this application for my use it does matter.

Increased wear due to the unnecessary introduction of contaminents in an engine. Goal is extended oil changes and extend life of the engine. If I was leasing the vehicle or trade it in every three years, answer would be no.

 

[Imp4]

Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
Increased wear due to the unnecessary introduction of contaminents in an engine. Goal is extended oil changes and extend life of the engine. If I was leasing the vehicle or trade it in every three years, answer would be no.

Yes, but...
Nobody... Nobody... Nobody...
Says, geez.... If only I hadn't used that bulk oil, I would've gotten to 250k. And here's the proof!

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
Originally Posted by Imp4
If we take it as a given they these contamination levels are different from one another, the separate question that then needs to he asked is:

"Does this difference matter in the given application?"
In all likelihood, the answer is an emphatic "No".

Putting it another way, yes these values are different from one another. So what?!?

How does the fact that one has a higher particle count impact my application???

It doesn't.


Granted this oil is not going into the 10 MegaWatt powerplant that supports NORAD in Colorado Springs, but in this application for my use it does matter.

Increased wear due to the unnecessary introduction of contaminents in an engine. Goal is extended oil changes and extend life of the engine. If I was leasing the vehicle or trade it in every three years, answer would be no.


It doesn't matter and you are contradicting your statements unless you plan on extending drains on bulk oil not recommended for extended drains.

 

[Eddie]

I'm not surprised at all because bulk tanks could be 10+ years old and only when filled is oil covering the inside. However; the engine oil filter would filter out any wear damaging pieces quickly. Not to worry. Ed

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
Originally Posted by PandaBear
I wouldn't worry about those "particles" in new oil, because your engine will generate way more than the oil came with, and would be filtered out over time by the oil filter.

How much less particulates would the engine generate without the addition of these potentially wear producing particulates from the start? I am not even talking about the 10-20% of the oil that remains in the engine,

99% of the hard particulates in the same VOA are less than 20 microns. What percentage of these will be caught by a filter that has an absolute efficiency of 25-30 microns?


Use a high efficiency oil filter that's 99% @ 20 microns. ISO codes of used oil with a good oil filter are typically in the ISO 23/17/11 to 23/18/12 range. Used engine oil will have more 4 micron particles than that bulk oil, but will be cleaner above 4 microns. You need a full blown 2 micron oil bypass filtering system to clean up in the 4 microns range.

An oil filter that is 25-30 microns absolute is crap ... guy better oil filters.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

I don't think I would stress about it if you go to a dealer or service facility that has a lot of service traffic. Even the facilities that use the boxes of oil such as Walmart and MIDAS pour into secondary containers to pour into the vehicle and the bay doors are open. It's not a clean room, dust and pollen is common. I just haven't seen any statistical evidence that dealer oil maintained vehicles last less than owner maintained.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
Given the industrial environment and manner in which they made their way to my oil pan, it is a fair assumption they are not benign. The numbers alone are enough for me and others to make a better choice.

I wouldn't assume that but I guess you can. Why would you think there are abrasive, damaging particles in the oil? What part of the industrial environment and manner would introduce those types of particles?

 

[Onetor]

Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
I don't think I would stress about it if you go to a dealer or service facility that has a lot of service traffic. Even the facilities that use the boxes of oil such as Walmart and MIDAS pour into secondary containers to pour into the vehicle and the bay doors are open. It's not a clean room, dust and pollen is common. I just haven't seen any statistical evidence that dealer oil maintained vehicles last less than owner maintained.



Is anyone tracking this statistical data? You make a good point.....Perhaps the Chemists can chime in. Are there any regulations concerning ISO standards for bulk oil and it's respective particle count? OP has made a wave that should continue....

 

[Jesse_NE]

Originally Posted by Bryanccfshr
I don't think I would stress about it if you go to a dealer or service facility that has a lot of service traffic. Even the facilities that use the boxes of oil such as Walmart and MIDAS pour into secondary containers to pour into the vehicle and the bay doors are open. It's not a clean room, dust and pollen is common. I just haven't seen any statistical evidence that dealer oil maintained vehicles last less than owner maintained.


It's just another non-issue to obsess over.