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How clean is the new oil you use? #5114556
05/24/19 12:41 PM
05/24/19 12:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 134
Iowa City
Talent_Keyhole Offline OP
Talent_Keyhole  Offline OP

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 134
Iowa City
I have read in the past year some debates about how clean new oil actually is and where to buy it. I recently had some work done at Chevrolet dealership in the midwest. They have quite a few dealerships in three states, and sell/service Honda, Kia, GMC, Buick, and GMC. They offered a complementary oil change so I took them up on it. I asked and they freely provided a sample of the oil they use. I was told it was AC Delco Full Synthetic Dexos 1 Gen 2 oil, API SN. They even took a picture of the 500g storage tank for me. They said it was the same oil and nothing to worry about. I went into the parts department and bought a quart of the same AC Delco oil (p/n 88865926) 10-9253.

I sent a sample of each to Polaris Labs and paid for the ISO Code particle count, in addition to the normal tests.. Attached are both new lube references reports. There is difference in additives, especially Boron and minor difference calcium, phos, and zinc.

The shocker was the particle count. The oil they have in bulk storage and which they use for their express lube service was 32x more contaminated with hard particulates than what you would see in a quart bottle that was produced by ExxonMobil in their blending facilities.

I went back a few weeks later and saw, a third party distributor delivering new oil. When one considers the the distribution channels, storage facilities, vehicles needed to transport the oil to it's final destination, the chance of contamination is quite high and probably normal for the industry. I doubt they clean any of these tanks, rather just drain and refill, especially for delivery vehicles.

I thought maybe there was some error in one particulate size or the test in general, but each micron rating showed the same percentage of contamination per ISO Code when compared with the oil in the quart container.

When you consider that anywhere from 10-20% of oil may remain in the engine, and how fast or how little they allow the oil to drain, along with the high contamination of oil going through the distribuition chain, gives me a different sense of "trusting the experts, and doing my part maintaining the car the best I can." Makes me wonder if the quick drop in TBN after an oil change oil is really normal or due to conditions described herein.
.
The old adage applies, if you want it done right, do it yourself, and "buy it yourself." Yes, I have had bad experiences at dealerships and some indepedents with oil filter and drain plug installs, but none when I do it myself. I always watch to make sure they actually change the oil and filter.

If you use an independent, ask them if they buy their drums of oil direct from a reputable blending facility, distribuition facility, or have them refilled on-site. The other choice is to buy it yourself by the quart or gallon and have them change it.

Attached PDF document
IMG_20190524_0001.pdf (146 downloads)
Re: How clean is the new oil you use? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5114561
05/24/19 12:46 PM
05/24/19 12:46 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 919
ZFW
JustN89 Offline
JustN89  Offline

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 919
ZFW
This is very interesting, thanks OP! I don't know if it makes any difference in the long term health of the engine, but it's certainly gives you something to think about.

Re: How clean is the new oil you use? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5114563
05/24/19 12:47 PM
05/24/19 12:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,338
CO
JLTD Offline
JLTD  Offline

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 2,338
CO
Good post, thanks - an eye opener for sure.


I use the overseas manual to choose my oil viscosity.

Using AMSOIL

Hers: 2008 Jeep Liberty 149k, SS5w30/Amsoil

His: 2015 4Runner 55k, SS 5w20/Amsoil

Re: How clean is the new oil you use? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5114571
05/24/19 12:55 PM
05/24/19 12:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 481
Maryland
walterjay Offline
walterjay  Offline

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 481
Maryland
Well this is an eye opener. Thanks for the info.

Re: How clean is the new oil you use? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5114572
05/24/19 12:56 PM
05/24/19 12:56 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,359
Illinois, U.S.A
RamFan Offline
RamFan  Offline

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,359
Illinois, U.S.A
You're right, that iso count is an eye opener. It makes sense given the distribution process but definitely makes you wonder a bit.


18 Giulia Ti Sport Q4
  • 2.0T I4 - 13k - PP Euro LX 0w30 - Mobil 1 - 10k/1yr

16.5 CX-5 Touring AWD
  • 2.5L I4 - 61k - Citgo Supergard Syn 5w30 - Denso - 7.5k/1yr
Re: How clean is the new oil you use? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5114575
05/24/19 12:57 PM
05/24/19 12:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,676
Toronto Canada
WobblyElvis Offline
WobblyElvis  Offline

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,676
Toronto Canada
Thanks to the OP for spending hard earned money to present us with some valuable information. Very...Interesting.

Re: How clean is the new oil you use? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5114584
05/24/19 01:08 PM
05/24/19 01:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 702
Ajax,Ontario, Canada
Pelican Offline
Pelican  Offline

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 702
Ajax,Ontario, Canada
Whenever it's "FREE" it is of the lowest (cheapest) quality. They use the free oil as a loss leader hoping to find something else to make the money on.

Re: How clean is the new oil you use? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5114600
05/24/19 01:22 PM
05/24/19 01:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25,014
ON, Canada eh?
StevieC Offline
StevieC  Offline

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25,014
ON, Canada eh?
Very interesting. Thanks thumbsup


'18 Caravan - 36k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w20, Fram Ultra, TC-W3 500:1
'06 Santa Fe - 535k KM (Retired)

There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluids! mad
Re: How clean is the new oil you use? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5114608
05/24/19 01:27 PM
05/24/19 01:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 32,479
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 32,479
NY
Thanks for the info. I'm not surprised. The bulk tank is not kept in a pristine, clean environment. Aside from filling up and replacing the pump when it goes bad, is it ever cleaned or serviced? How about the tanks the bulk oil is transported in? That's just one of many reasons why a dealer or a speedy lube place will never change oil in one of my vehicles.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: How clean is the new oil you use? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5114610
05/24/19 01:30 PM
05/24/19 01:30 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,212
upstate NY
dustyroads Offline
dustyroads  Offline

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,212
upstate NY
Chevron promotes their lubricants as ISO Clean or something like that, and it's for that reason. Everytime oil is handled there's a chance for contamination. Just the delivery process at a garage can introduce many small particles, and there are plenty of other chances before that final delivery.

I've posted a couple of VOAs of Castrol Edge in the last year, both out of sealed jugs. Neither of them were "clean". Last year's VOA was similar to your bulk tank sample and this year's sample of Edge was even worse. My point is that even oil from a bottle or jug can be "dirty". Caterpillar has always asked me for a sample from bulk oil tanks when I send in my UOAs for the big diesels, for the concern of particle contamination.


2013 F150 XLT 5.0 4X4 109k miles
Edge 5W-30 / Boss 22500
Re: How clean is the new oil you use? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5114621
05/24/19 01:40 PM
05/24/19 01:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 358
Newport News, VA
sdowney717 Offline
sdowney717  Offline

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 358
Newport News, VA
working at a chevy dealer in the mid 1980's, and that place went back to the very beginning, lots old old infrastructure and old tanks and you know they never clean old oil tanks. water would get in and of course then rusty metal. Bulk tanker fills old tank, the high flow rate stirs up all the crap in the tank. Hey is it even filtered by their pump before pumping into your car?. Are you kidding me, as long as it flows, its fine they will tell you, and engines have filters too. Finally they opened a new facility and tore down the old place, has become part of the interstate on ramp now. . Maybe things change.

Re: How clean is the new oil you use? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5114627
05/24/19 01:43 PM
05/24/19 01:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,763
Cincinnati
Chris Meutsch Offline
Chris Meutsch  Offline

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,763
Cincinnati
This seems like a 1st-world problem to me.......


2005 Honda CR-V EX, 273k
Re: How clean is the new oil you use? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5114631
05/24/19 01:52 PM
05/24/19 01:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 292
CA
ad244 Offline
ad244  Offline

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 292
CA
But say no to SuperTech!!!!!

Re: How clean is the new oil you use? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5114632
05/24/19 01:57 PM
05/24/19 01:57 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 32,479
NY
demarpaint Offline
demarpaint  Offline

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 32,479
NY
It wouldn't surprise me if disgruntled employees taint the oil in those tanks too. Maybe the boss [censored] them off, maybe they hate the world. Dump soda in the tank, a bit of dirt, etc. In my younger years prior to going into business for myself I worked with some pretty spiteful guys. So there isn't much that surprises me.


God Bless Our Troops

Re: How clean is the new oil you use? [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5114635
05/24/19 02:01 PM
05/24/19 02:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 181
Earth
GZRider Offline
GZRider  Offline

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 181
Earth
How do you all like my conspiracy theories about the dangers of dealer bulk oil now?! I never said Mobil or Pennzoil or Q.S. weren't selling decent bulk, it's the human element that is the weakest and most corruptible in any given system.

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