VW pressuring German lobbying group to promote EV

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wemay

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VW threatens to exit important automaker lobbying group over electric vehicle policies

http://flip.it/ip-DkA

The lobbying group is:
Association of the German Automotive Industry (VDA)

Originally Posted by electrek

"The list of criticisms made at Volkswagen is long. Above all, the association must move away from the strategy of "technology openness" and ensure that all forces are focused exclusively on the enforcement of the battery-electric car. Development and promotion of vehicles with fuel cells and gas engines or other environmentally friendly variants would have to be stopped. This overburden the industry, says VW boss Herbert Diess."

In short, VW wants the association to stop pushing "alternative fuel" vehicles and focus on battery-electric vehicles.

VDA responded by saying that "other drive and fuel alternatives remain in the field of vision," but they plan to meet with VW soon to discuss the issue.
 
They can push them as hard as they want but the technology isn't at the point where they make sense for a normal person's only car.

Currently they are just for rich people to virtue signal when they don't need their truck SUV.
 
So VW want Germans to use French nuclear energy to run their cars (because the german power grid can't stand on it's own two feet as a result of green-ness)
 
My two cents.

#1 In recent years the German govt has spent hundreds of millions subsidizing EV and EV development as a whole. This includes battery technology.

#2 The German govt is expecting to see return on their investment so I suspect the concern by VW is actually a concern of the German Govt, and because it doesn't want to come off as anti business by simply outlawing ICE's by X-date.

#3 There are participants (i.e. Bosch?) among the VDA which are against the movement to EV so they're willing to promote alternative fuels such as hydrogen and LNG. I suspect the unions are worried because EV's have less moving parts which wear out. After all an electric motor can run almost indefinitely.
 
Originally Posted by maxdustington
They can push them as hard as they want but the technology isn't at the point where they make sense for a normal person's only car.




EV's make more sense in Germany and in metropolitan areas of the US. Ya, perhaps not in WV, but that's only 2 million people vs say 20 million in metro NYC.
 
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wemay makes us smarter yet again. Good find.
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
#3 There are participants (i.e. Bosch?) among the VDA which are against the movement to EV so they're willing to promote alternative fuels such as hydrogen and LNG. I suspect the unions are worried because EV's have less moving parts which wear out. After all an electric motor can run almost indefinitely.
Its true, for example, that spark plug makers are concerned about going whole hog on EV's. Up until now they haven't been too worried since hybrids use engines, and it will take a hybrid to get quick refueling times on long trips. I don't see how fast-charging EV's at 500 amps and 900V is practical and safe. ( https://electrek.co/2018/12/13/porsche-electric-car-prototype-record-400-kw-charge-rate/ ) meaning hybrids are still the best solution. Getting 45 MPG from a Hybrid Tiguan makes sense.
 
Oh boy! And where do we dump the ev waste.. ahh yes.. in india and in africa as usual.

How about electromagnetic radiation? And how will the ev cars effect peapol?
 
VW voices their complaints to their German lobbying association. That's nice.
 
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
VW voices their complaints to their German lobbying association. That's nice.


Well, I'm assuming you'd want everyone on the same page. This is afterall an internal disagreement within the association.
 
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

#3 There are participants (i.e. Bosch?) among the VDA which are against the movement to EV so they're willing to promote alternative fuels such as hydrogen and LNG. I suspect the unions are worried because EV's have less moving parts which wear out. After all an electric motor can run almost indefinitely.



This is an excellent point.
 
Originally Posted by Shannow
So VW want Germans to use French nuclear energy to run their cars (because the german power grid can't stand on it's own two feet as a result of green-ness)

Being in the power business certainly puts you on the top of the informed people .
 
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
My two cents.

#1 In recent years the German govt has spent hundreds of millions subsidizing EV and EV development as a whole. This includes battery technology.




Im pretty sure I am right on this but the same thing here in the USA.
Out of your paycheck EVERY week government takes money to give to automakers to build FLEX FUEL and electric cars in some form or another, including consumer rebates for EV's.

Much info online, I did a 10 second such, BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars out of american paychecks (10 years ago) for just ONE government flex fuel program alone, that DOESNT GET USED. Why this stuff doesnt bother people is beyond me.

Source = Washington Post - Click
 
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Originally Posted by Shannow
So VW want Germans to use French nuclear energy to run their cars (because the german power grid can't stand on it's own two feet as a result of green-ness)


The linked article claims 2017 was a record year for German electricity exports, 60 TWH altogether, and 13tWh more were exported to France, than imported from France. The article also addresses why some people believe that Germany relies on France to power its energy transition. Is that all false? I am asking because I do not know the answer.

https://www.renewable-ei.org/en/activities/column/20180302.html
 
Originally Posted by vavavroom
Originally Posted by Shannow
So VW want Germans to use French nuclear energy to run their cars (because the german power grid can't stand on it's own two feet as a result of green-ness)


The linked article claims 2017 was a record year for German electricity exports, 60 TWH altogether, and 13tWh more were exported to France, than imported from France. The article also addresses why some people believe that Germany relies on France to power its energy transition. Is that all false? I am asking because I do not know the answer.

https://www.renewable-ei.org/en/activities/column/20180302.html


Yes,
South Australia does that too...brag about the days that they are a nett exporter of renewables, but are 100% reliant on "dirty brown coal" to actually keep the lights on....the renewables won't even work without a thermal powre station to provide the frequency, frequency control, and power factor correction.

If the people of germany only want to use electricity when the wind and sun are shining, and sever the links to thermals...by all means, go ahead...but NETT is weaselwords, used to confuse the gullible...Ca use it too.
 
Originally Posted by vavavroom
Originally Posted by Shannow
So VW want Germans to use French nuclear energy to run their cars (because the german power grid can't stand on it's own two feet as a result of green-ness)


The linked article claims 2017 was a record year for German electricity exports, 60 TWH altogether, and 13tWh more were exported to France, than imported from France. The article also addresses why some people believe that Germany relies on France to power its energy transition. Is that all false? I am asking because I do not know the answer.

https://www.renewable-ei.org/en/activities/column/20180302.html


Ontario exports almost 3x what it used to now that we have a big 'ol chunk of VRE. The problem is that it produces out of phase with demand, so when it comes online and you don't need it, which is often, that power gets dumped in foreign markets. Our imports/exports used to be pretty balanced, but now exports have exploded, yet 85% of our power comes from Nuclear and Hydro-Electric. During the summer, and cold snaps, when it's the coldest or the hottest? wind is absent, so we burn gas to make up the difference. When it's 3AM and breezy, all that power gets dumped to the USA. So while our exports to the USA vastly exceed our imports, we rely heavily on the 2,000MW interconnect to Quebec during those periods where VRE doesn't show up to the party, then gas bridges the gap.

The nukes (we have 18) are down a few units right now because demand is low and thus they are able to have maintenance performed on those that need it to be ready for running wide-open for the entire summer once the heat hits. Typical uptime for a unit is 1.5-2 years, though the record for a CANDU is 894 days of uninterrupted generation, which was a world record for any unit until quite recently.
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
... When it's 3AM and breezy, all that power gets dumped to the USA. ...

I ask out of ignorance - what does the USA do with this Ontario power at 3 AM? Isn't demand low in the USA at that time too?
 
Originally Posted by BearZDefect
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
... When it's 3AM and breezy, all that power gets dumped to the USA. ...

I ask out of ignorance - what does the USA do with this Ontario power at 3 AM? Isn't demand low in the USA at that time too?


Because of the market cost of this electricity (sometimes negative) it's cheaper for them to curtail their own generation and use our excess.
 
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