Can 5W-30 be Thicker than 10W-30?

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Greetings everyone,

While I was reading the specifications of Mobil1 5W-30 ESP and Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30. I noticed that Mobil 1 Viscosity at 100C is higher than Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30.

Mobil1 ESP 5W-30
[Linked Image]


Pennzoil Platuim 10W-30
[Linked Image]



So sometimes the weight is doesn't necessarily means that the oil is heavier I have to check for Viscosity too?


Thanks for the info in advance
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted by das_peikko
10W-30 is closer to the shear stability of SAE 30 than 5W-30 is.


Can you please tell me what is shear?
 
Originally Posted by Garak
The 5w-30 I am running is significantly thicker, particularly by HTHS, than any 10w-30 that isn't an HDEO or an A3/B3 type lubricant.


What is the difference between HTHS and A3/B3?
 
Shear is when Viscosity Index Improvers (VIIs) break down over time causing the oil to be thinner at high temps than when it was new. VIIs are polymers added to the base oil that expand with heat, which allows a 5W or 10W rated oil to thin out less so it can stay thick enough to be a 30 weight oil when hot. 10W rated oils will almost always require less VIIs to be added than a 5W oil, since a 10W oil starts out thicker. Because less are used in the 10W, the oil won't shear down thinner as much.
 
HTHS stands for High Temperature/High Shear and is an indicator of how well the oil holds up to extreme stress and heat. The number (2.9, 3.5, etc.) is the viscosity of the oil under high pressures and at 302 degrees F (like a simulation of what is happening in the bearings or between the piston and cylinder wall). A 30 weight oil must have a HTHS viscosity of 2.9 or greater.


A3/B3 is a certification for an oil from the ACEA (basically the European version of the American Petroleum Institute)
An oil must pass certain tests to get an A3/B3 certification
 
Originally Posted by ZraHamilton
HTHS stands for High Temperature/High Shear and is an indicator of how well the oil holds up to extreme stress and heat. The number (2.9, 3.5, etc.) is the viscosity of the oil under high pressures and at 302 degrees F (like a simulation of what is happening in the bearings or between the piston and cylinder wall). A 30 weight oil must have a HTHS viscosity of 2.9 or greater.


A3/B3 is a certification for an oil from the ACEA (basically the European version of the American Petroleum Institute)
An oil must pass certain tests to get an A3/B3 certification


Thanks for your answer and for educating me. So that means oil that's already thicker like 10W should protect the engine better in High temps. Also is ACEA A5/B5 means better oil?
 
And to answer your original question, yes some 5W-30s can be thicker than some 10W-30s because the 100 degrees C (212 F) viscosity is a range. For an oil to be a ()W-30, it must be between 9.3 and 12.5 centistokes(the measurement for kinematic viscosity).

However, when the oils are in really cold temperatures (below around freezing), the 5W will be thinner than the 10W, even if the 5W-30 was thicker than the 10W-30 when hot.
 
If it doesn't shear and thin down as much, then a 10W-30 may be better in high temps than a 5W-30. However, if a 5W-30 has a really good base oil and Shear resistant VIIs, then it could perform just as well as a 10W-30 in high temps. It just depends on the specific oil and the difference will be too little to notice.

And yes, oils that meet ACEA A5/B5 are better because the European certification is harder to pass than just the API tests.
Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30, Mobil 1 5W-30, Mobil 1 High Mileage 5W-30, and Mobil 1 10W-30 are a few examples that have the A5/B5 certification.
 
Originally Posted by John344
Greetings everyone,

While I was reading the specifications of Mobil1 5W-30 ESP and Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30. I noticed that Mobil 1 Viscosity at 100C is higher than Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30.


As already mentioned, the viscosity at 100 C is a range as defined by this chart. Look at the Kinematic Viscosity at 100 C (aka KV100) in cSt.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/
 
And Zee, I wasn't sure about Fram Ultra filters because of the whole flow over filtration idea, but now every one of my vehicles has an Ultra lol. It's hard to believe that the media can filter so efficiently and still flow very well, but I guess they have figured it out with that specific media.
 
Originally Posted by ZraHamilton


And yes, oils that meet ACEA A5/B5 are better because the European certification is harder to pass than just the API tests.
Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30, Mobil 1 5W-30, Mobil 1 High Mileage 5W-30, and Mobil 1 10W-30 are a few examples that have the A5/B5 certification.


ACEA A5/B5 may be generally better than some API and other rating, but not necessarily vs. A3/B3 or A3/B4. You may understand that, but I think John344 may have been asking if A5/B5 means better than A3/B3, for example. It does not; they are different specs for engines with different design needs. Example, comparing A5/B5 to A3/B4, the "5" In fact it has much lower HTHS range than A3/B4, and lower TBN number. It is designed to be energy conserving and sacrifices some HTHS for that goal. That's why I don't use an ACEA A5/B5, but rather the "tougher" A3/B4. It has an HTHS of 3.5 or higher, TBN 10.0+, and tougher wear limits than A3/B3 (same as A5/B5).

The ACEA ratings do not get "better" as the numbers get higher. Also, as newer specs are developed, new categories are not invented, but the year of adoption appended. For example, ACEA A3/B4-10 means the standards adopted in 2010. Now the spec is A3/B4-16.

This thread may help clarify it some too:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4048837/A3/B4_vs_A5/B5

Those of us who are "belts and suspenders" types wrt protection (as user SR5 describes in the last post of that thread I linked above) - we favor A3/B4. Others are keen for extreme cold weather start protection an A3/B4 can't readily provide, or others want the energy conserving ability it also can't maximize. So none of these ACEA ratings are superior to any others in ALL aspects. But they are WAY more robust certs than you find with the ones more common in North America.
 
Originally Posted by ZraHamilton
And Zee, I wasn't sure about Fram Ultra filters because of the whole flow over filtration idea, but now every one of my vehicles has an Ultra lol. It's hard to believe that the media can filter so efficiently and still flow very well, but I guess they have figured it out with that specific media.


Lots of full synthetic filters can be very efficient and flow very well and have a small delta-p at the same time. That's the beauty of fine fiber synthetic media.
 
Originally Posted by John344
Thanks for your answer and for educating me. So that means oil that's already thicker like 10W should protect the engine better in High temps. Also is ACEA A5/B5 means better oil?

For the first question, maybe, maybe not. At high temperatures and at high shear, the ordinary 10w-30 ILSAC oils out there will be thinner than the 5w-30 I'm using, which has an HTHS of 3.5 or greater by virtue of its specification. A5/B5 oils meet more rigorous specifications than simple SN/GF-5, but you're not always going to get the benefit of that, particularly over shorter OCIs or applications that aren't really demanding.
 
Originally Posted by John344
Greetings everyone,

.....

So sometimes the weight is doesn't necessarily means that the oil is heavier I have to check for Viscosity too?


Thanks for the info in advance
smile.gif




W is not weight. It stands for Winter in Multigrade oils. 0w or 10w have nothing to do with viscosity ("thickness") . at operating temps.

It can be simple. When choosing and oil for a cold climate, pIck the number Before the "W" (winter) thusly:

0W; Freakin Cold

5W: Dang Cold

10W: Sort of Cold

20W: Its sort of chilly out - I might have to put a long sleeve shirt on.

It just the temp that the oil will gel or wax up solid and not pump through the engine anymore.

See, regular motor oil is liquid paraffin wax (alkane). Its true.
 
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