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Can 5W-30 be Thicker than 10W-30? #5114077
05/23/19 10:33 PM
05/23/19 10:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 34
Desert
John344 Offline OP
John344  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 34
Desert
Greetings everyone,

While I was reading the specifications of Mobil1 5W-30 ESP and Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30. I noticed that Mobil 1 Viscosity at 100C is higher than Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30.

Mobil1 ESP 5W-30
[Linked Image]

Pennzoil Platuim 10W-30
[Linked Image]


So sometimes the weight is doesn't necessarily means that the oil is heavier I have to check for Viscosity too?


Thanks for the info in advance smile

Re: Can 5W-30 be Thicker than 10W-30? [Re: John344] #5114082
05/23/19 10:53 PM
05/23/19 10:53 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,712
Maricopa Arizona
dave1251 Offline
dave1251  Offline

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,712
Maricopa Arizona
5W30's tend to shear more thus often it's blended a tad bit thicker than a 10W30.


make the inside of your engine oil cap white.
don't use.
Re: Can 5W-30 be Thicker than 10W-30? [Re: John344] #5114089
05/23/19 11:01 PM
05/23/19 11:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,196
San Antonio, TX
das_peikko Offline
das_peikko  Offline

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,196
San Antonio, TX
10W-30 is closer to the shear stability of SAE 30 than 5W-30 is.

Re: Can 5W-30 be Thicker than 10W-30? [Re: John344] #5114091
05/23/19 11:04 PM
05/23/19 11:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 126
Europe
ChemLabNL Offline
ChemLabNL  Offline

Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 126
Europe
It's cuz ILSAC sucks.

Re: Can 5W-30 be Thicker than 10W-30? [Re: John344] #5114092
05/23/19 11:05 PM
05/23/19 11:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 27,660
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Garak Offline
Garak  Offline

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 27,660
Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
The 5w-30 I am running is significantly thicker, particularly by HTHS, than any 10w-30 that isn't an HDEO or an A3/B3 type lubricant.


Plain, simple Garak.

2008 Infiniti G37 - Shell ROTELLA T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w-30, Wix 57356
1984 F-150 4.9L - Quaker State GB 10w-30, Wix 51515
Re: Can 5W-30 be Thicker than 10W-30? [Re: Garak] #5114097
05/23/19 11:08 PM
05/23/19 11:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,290
Virginia
bbhero Offline
bbhero  Offline

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 6,290
Virginia
Yeah true indeed... If a oil carries the C30 Porsche approval it has a HTHS of 3.5...


Nissan Altima 3.5 Coupe
Carquest High mileage full synthetic 5w30
CQ blue 84356 Oil filter
"Treat your family like your friends and treat your friends like your family."
Re: Can 5W-30 be Thicker than 10W-30? [Re: das_peikko] #5114108
05/23/19 11:45 PM
05/23/19 11:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 34
Desert
John344 Offline OP
John344  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 34
Desert
Originally Posted by das_peikko
10W-30 is closer to the shear stability of SAE 30 than 5W-30 is.


Can you please tell me what is shear?

Re: Can 5W-30 be Thicker than 10W-30? [Re: Garak] #5114110
05/23/19 11:46 PM
05/23/19 11:46 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 34
Desert
John344 Offline OP
John344  Offline OP

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 34
Desert
Originally Posted by Garak
The 5w-30 I am running is significantly thicker, particularly by HTHS, than any 10w-30 that isn't an HDEO or an A3/B3 type lubricant.


What is the difference between HTHS and A3/B3?

Re: Can 5W-30 be Thicker than 10W-30? [Re: John344] #5114114
05/24/19 12:00 AM
05/24/19 12:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 136
Tennessee, United States
ZraHamilton Offline
ZraHamilton  Offline

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 136
Tennessee, United States
Shear is when Viscosity Index Improvers (VIIs) break down over time causing the oil to be thinner at high temps than when it was new. VIIs are polymers added to the base oil that expand with heat, which allows a 5W or 10W rated oil to thin out less so it can stay thick enough to be a 30 weight oil when hot. 10W rated oils will almost always require less VIIs to be added than a 5W oil, since a 10W oil starts out thicker. Because less are used in the 10W, the oil won't shear down thinner as much.

Re: Can 5W-30 be Thicker than 10W-30? [Re: John344] #5114119
05/24/19 12:21 AM
05/24/19 12:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 136
Tennessee, United States
ZraHamilton Offline
ZraHamilton  Offline

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 136
Tennessee, United States
HTHS stands for High Temperature/High Shear and is an indicator of how well the oil holds up to extreme stress and heat. The number (2.9, 3.5, etc.) is the viscosity of the oil under high pressures and at 302 degrees F (like a simulation of what is happening in the bearings or between the piston and cylinder wall). A 30 weight oil must have a HTHS viscosity of 2.9 or greater.


A3/B3 is a certification for an oil from the ACEA (basically the European version of the American Petroleum Institute)
An oil must pass certain tests to get an A3/B3 certification

Re: Can 5W-30 be Thicker than 10W-30? [Re: ZraHamilton] #5114124
05/24/19 12:40 AM
05/24/19 12:40 AM
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Posts: 34
Desert
John344 Offline OP
John344  Offline OP

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Originally Posted by ZraHamilton
HTHS stands for High Temperature/High Shear and is an indicator of how well the oil holds up to extreme stress and heat. The number (2.9, 3.5, etc.) is the viscosity of the oil under high pressures and at 302 degrees F (like a simulation of what is happening in the bearings or between the piston and cylinder wall). A 30 weight oil must have a HTHS viscosity of 2.9 or greater.


A3/B3 is a certification for an oil from the ACEA (basically the European version of the American Petroleum Institute)
An oil must pass certain tests to get an A3/B3 certification


Thanks for your answer and for educating me. So that means oil that's already thicker like 10W should protect the engine better in High temps. Also is ACEA A5/B5 means better oil?

Re: Can 5W-30 be Thicker than 10W-30? [Re: John344] #5114126
05/24/19 12:52 AM
05/24/19 12:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 136
Tennessee, United States
ZraHamilton Offline
ZraHamilton  Offline

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 136
Tennessee, United States
And to answer your original question, yes some 5W-30s can be thicker than some 10W-30s because the 100 degrees C (212 F) viscosity is a range. For an oil to be a ()W-30, it must be between 9.3 and 12.5 centistokes(the measurement for kinematic viscosity).

However, when the oils are in really cold temperatures (below around freezing), the 5W will be thinner than the 10W, even if the 5W-30 was thicker than the 10W-30 when hot.

Re: Can 5W-30 be Thicker than 10W-30? [Re: John344] #5114135
05/24/19 01:09 AM
05/24/19 01:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 136
Tennessee, United States
ZraHamilton Offline
ZraHamilton  Offline

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 136
Tennessee, United States
If it doesn't shear and thin down as much, then a 10W-30 may be better in high temps than a 5W-30. However, if a 5W-30 has a really good base oil and Shear resistant VIIs, then it could perform just as well as a 10W-30 in high temps. It just depends on the specific oil and the difference will be too little to notice.

And yes, oils that meet ACEA A5/B5 are better because the European certification is harder to pass than just the API tests.
Pennzoil Platinum 5W-30, Mobil 1 5W-30, Mobil 1 High Mileage 5W-30, and Mobil 1 10W-30 are a few examples that have the A5/B5 certification.

Re: Can 5W-30 be Thicker than 10W-30? [Re: John344] #5114146
05/24/19 01:30 AM
05/24/19 01:30 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 21,112
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline

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Posts: 21,112
PNW
Originally Posted by John344
Greetings everyone,

While I was reading the specifications of Mobil1 5W-30 ESP and Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30. I noticed that Mobil 1 Viscosity at 100C is higher than Pennzoil Platinum 10W-30.


As already mentioned, the viscosity at 100 C is a range as defined by this chart. Look at the Kinematic Viscosity at 100 C (aka KV100) in cSt.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

Re: Can 5W-30 be Thicker than 10W-30? [Re: ZeeOSix] #5114149
05/24/19 01:38 AM
05/24/19 01:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 136
Tennessee, United States
ZraHamilton Offline
ZraHamilton  Offline

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 136
Tennessee, United States
And Zee, I wasn't sure about Fram Ultra filters because of the whole flow over filtration idea, but now every one of my vehicles has an Ultra lol. It's hard to believe that the media can filter so efficiently and still flow very well, but I guess they have figured it out with that specific media.

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