Penzoil Platinum Euro 0w40 4,445 Miles on 2017 1.4 Jetta TSI

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2017 Jetta 1.4 TSI. Approximately 1 year and 4,445 miles on this sample. Penzoil Platinum Euro 0w40 502.00 VW Spec purchased at Walmart on clearance for $13 a 5qt jug. 7,105 total miles on this engine.
I do a lot of short trips since my work commute is only a few miles, so I was concerned with fuel dilution, especially considering the direct injection.

oil analysis 2017 jetta.jpg
 
Don't believe BlackStone's Fuel dilution figures! I did a dual sample a couple of years back (one to BlackStone, one to Polaris) and the Blackstone came back "fine" and it was over 5% on the Polaris UOA (which they use the correct Gas Chromatography method).

YMMV.
 
I highly doubt that fuel dilution figure is right. All the DI engines in my sig smell like gas in the oil. I only do 5K OCI because of this.
 
Originally Posted by FordBroncoVWJeta
I highly doubt that fuel dilution figure is right. All the DI engines in my sig smell like gas in the oil. I only do 5K OCI because of this.


I never smelled any fuel on my dipstick but I also plan on sticking to 5,000 or less OCI which conveniently works out to about once a year for me.
 
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Originally Posted by Joe_H
Originally Posted by FordBroncoVWJeta
I highly doubt that fuel dilution figure is right. All the DI engines in my sig smell like gas in the oil. I only do 5K OCI because of this.


I never smelled any fuel on my dipstick but I also plan on sticking to 5,000 or less OCI which conveniently works out to about once a year for me.

5k is what I do too, 10k filters. I know I could do 10k because of my highway miles and UOA results but clearance oil is cheap! 5k is easy to keep track of and 1/2 of VAG's recommendation. It's time to rotate tires too, at 10k they're already showing irregular wear.
 
Originally Posted by WhizkidTN
Don't believe BlackStone's Fuel dilution figures! I did a dual sample a couple of years back (one to BlackStone, one to Polaris) and the Blackstone came back "fine" and it was over 5% on the Polaris UOA (which they use the correct Gas Chromatography method).

YMMV.


So..... where are all the destroyed GDI engines from excessive fuel dilution? Blackstone's number may be off... but Polaris' GCMS reporting hasn't changed any UOAs nor prevented major catastrophes. The two most important pieces of info from a UOA are viscosity (did the oil stay in grade/high enough viscosity for engine protection), and did it have reserve TBN (flashpoint can be a concern if below ~385*F or so). Did the oil stay in the 'original' grade- no. But since the engine only requires a 5W30, it still has enough viscosity. TBN was not tested on this one, but from my personal experience, it would probably be in the 5.0-6.0 range at this low mileage.

For all the tantrums and Chicken Little-ing about fuel dilution percentages at OCIs shorter than the manufacturer's recommendation here, there are literally millions of people driving GDIs up to and beyond the mfr's mileage with the absolute cheapest oil, likely conventional or blends, with most likely no statistical difference in failures compared to those using well-formulated, synthetic oils such as the OP is. Fuel dilution is not the looming disaster that you make it out to be as evidenced by hundreds of EB 3.5 UOAs showing significant fuel dilution, and could be influenced by something as simple as a long warmup and/or short trip just before the sample was pulled.

OP, if you have more of this oil, I would continue to use it, and run it somewhere around 5-6k before you pull another sample. PPE 0W40 is a stout oil.
 
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by WhizkidTN
Don't believe BlackStone's Fuel dilution figures! I did a dual sample a couple of years back (one to BlackStone, one to Polaris) and the Blackstone came back "fine" and it was over 5% on the Polaris UOA (which they use the correct Gas Chromatography method).

YMMV.


So..... where are all the destroyed GDI engines from excessive fuel dilution? Blackstone's number may be off... but Polaris' GCMS reporting hasn't changed any UOAs nor prevented major catastrophes. The two most important pieces of info from a UOA are viscosity (did the oil stay in grade/high enough viscosity for engine protection), and did it have reserve TBN (flashpoint can be a concern if below ~385*F or so). Did the oil stay in the 'original' grade- no. But since the engine only requires a 5W30, it still has enough viscosity. TBN was not tested on this one, but from my personal experience, it would probably be in the 5.0-6.0 range at this low mileage.

For all the tantrums and Chicken Little-ing about fuel dilution percentages at OCIs shorter than the manufacturer's recommendation here, there are literally millions of people driving GDIs up to and beyond the mfr's mileage with the absolute cheapest oil, likely conventional or blends, with most likely no statistical difference in failures compared to those using well-formulated, synthetic oils such as the OP is. Fuel dilution is not the looming disaster that you make it out to be as evidenced by hundreds of EB 3.5 UOAs showing significant fuel dilution, and could be influenced by something as simple as a long warmup and/or short trip just before the sample was pulled.

OP, if you have more of this oil, I would continue to use it, and run it somewhere around 5-6k before you pull another sample. PPE 0W40 is a stout oil.


You make some valid points. In the lifetime of my engine (76K miles before she dumped with the known defect of the "Rod Knock of Death") all my UOA showed reasonable wear metals, but a significant drop in TBN (sheared down the oil) and an increase in oxidation, etc. All the Polaris UOA I did showed very high fuel dilution figures and I always did my changes after 20 miles of driving (min.) to ensure I was pulling an accurate sample. I followed the severe service schedule of close to 4K miles for my OCI and have always used full synthetic 0W-40 oil (M1 then Castrol Edge). I also run PCV/intake catch cans and Top Tier fuel.

There have been far too many Theta II GDI engines that have been sludge monsters with many resulting in failures via poor maintenance (far too long OCI), so I don't think one can say it makes no difference in engine life. I tend to keep my cars to 250K+ miles so I pay attention to whatever "tweaks" I can do to attempt to ensure a long and problem free service life.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by WhizkidTN
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by WhizkidTN
Don't believe BlackStone's Fuel dilution figures! I did a dual sample a couple of years back (one to BlackStone, one to Polaris) and the Blackstone came back "fine" and it was over 5% on the Polaris UOA (which they use the correct Gas Chromatography method).

YMMV.


So..... where are all the destroyed GDI engines from excessive fuel dilution? Blackstone's number may be off... but Polaris' GCMS reporting hasn't changed any UOAs nor prevented major catastrophes. The two most important pieces of info from a UOA are viscosity (did the oil stay in grade/high enough viscosity for engine protection), and did it have reserve TBN (flashpoint can be a concern if below ~385*F or so). Did the oil stay in the 'original' grade- no. But since the engine only requires a 5W30, it still has enough viscosity. TBN was not tested on this one, but from my personal experience, it would probably be in the 5.0-6.0 range at this low mileage.

For all the tantrums and Chicken Little-ing about fuel dilution percentages at OCIs shorter than the manufacturer's recommendation here, there are literally millions of people driving GDIs up to and beyond the mfr's mileage with the absolute cheapest oil, likely conventional or blends, with most likely no statistical difference in failures compared to those using well-formulated, synthetic oils such as the OP is. Fuel dilution is not the looming disaster that you make it out to be as evidenced by hundreds of EB 3.5 UOAs showing significant fuel dilution, and could be influenced by something as simple as a long warmup and/or short trip just before the sample was pulled.

OP, if you have more of this oil, I would continue to use it, and run it somewhere around 5-6k before you pull another sample. PPE 0W40 is a stout oil.


You make some valid points. In the lifetime of my engine (76K miles before she dumped with the known defect of the "Rod Knock of Death") all my UOA showed reasonable wear metals, but a significant drop in TBN (sheared down the oil) and an increase in oxidation, etc. All the Polaris UOA I did showed very high fuel dilution figures and I always did my changes after 20 miles of driving (min.) to ensure I was pulling an accurate sample. I followed the severe service schedule of close to 4K miles for my OCI and have always used full synthetic 0W-40 oil (M1 then Castrol Edge). I also run PCV/intake catch cans and Top Tier fuel.

There have been far too many Theta II GDI engines that have been sludge monsters with many resulting in failures via poor maintenance (far too long OCI), so I don't think one can say it makes no difference in engine life. I tend to keep my cars to 250K+ miles so I pay attention to whatever "tweaks" I can do to attempt to ensure a long and problem free service life.


You're Optima is also tuned, so the Xw40 throughout the life of the vehicle is understood. We've owned our SFS 2.0T since new and now have close to 180K miles. We've used Conventional 5W30 twice (VWB) and 5W40 (EDGE) about 20% of the time. The remainder has been 5/10W30 Syn and never an interval of more than 4K miles. I have yet to see any starting, driving, idling issues from deposits, or smell fuel on dipstick. The one constant has always been Top Tier fuel - 87 and 93 in a 50/50 split.
 
Originally Posted by WhizkidTN
Don't believe BlackStone's Fuel dilution figures! I did a dual sample a couple of years back (one to BlackStone, one to Polaris) and the Blackstone came back "fine" and it was over 5% on the Polaris UOA (which they use the correct Gas Chromatography method).

YMMV.


I'll second those comments, same experience with BSL and Polaris in terms of Fuel Dilution. My Ecotec 2.4L with GDI, hits 5% in about 1700 miles of mixed driving, regardless of weather. Viscosity drops at least 2 cST, and shears back to a 20W oil, using AC Delco Dexos1 Gen 2, API SN Full Synthetic. TBN drops from 6.5 to 3-4, oxidation and nitration increases 3 points, and I lose 50% of the boron additive.
 
Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
I'll second those comments, same experience with BSL and Polaris in terms of Fuel Dilution.


Yet still no reports of catastrophic engine failures due to fuel dilution in the oil. Thanks for confirming.

As far as the rest of your post, it simply sounds like you're not driving it often enough, nor hard enough. ANY engine with extremely short trips, regardless of weather, will show some fuel dilution; it's why most manufacturers recommend halving the interval if this is the case. But that is more for the possibility of water in the oil and corrosion than fuel; and also, when starting with a super-low TBN oil that is formulated with ashless detergents, TBN is not reported correctly by the ASTM test they are currently using. Also, at 5% fuel, you are not shearing the oil to a 20W, it is simply being diluted down to a 20W.
 
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
I'll second those comments, same experience with BSL and Polaris in terms of Fuel Dilution.


Yet still no reports of catastrophic engine failures due to fuel dilution in the oil. Thanks for confirming.

As far as the rest of your post, it simply sounds like you're not driving it often enough, nor hard enough. ANY engine with extremely short trips, regardless of weather, will show some fuel dilution; it's why most manufacturers recommend halving the interval if this is the case. But that is more for the possibility of water in the oil and corrosion than fuel; and also, when starting with a super-low TBN oil that is formulated with ashless detergents, TBN is not reported correctly by the ASTM test they are currently using. Also, at 5% fuel, you are not shearing the oil to a 20W, it is simply being diluted down to a 20W.


Actually, incorrect. As of today we get this from none other than Honda:

https://www.wardsauto.com/engines/h...mp;elq2=31a505e3bfbd482e808a9f825fb38c41

Take a good look at that picture!
 
This Jetta is a lease, so I will have to make a decision on either turning it in at lease end or buying it. I figured getting an UOA report will help me with that decision. I wanted to know if it can tolerate a lot of short trips as well as brutal winters like we just had here in Ohio. I normally just park it outside in the elements the majority of the time in the winter so I don't have to deal with the salt and grime in my garage and there were multiple days of very cold starts when the temps dipped below zero.

It looks like its doing just fine based on the UOA report and comments from this thread so I will be more confident in buying it if I should so choose especially since I will likely only have half the mileage cap used up and the Buyout is only $10,900. I do use nothing but top tier 87 octane gas mostly purchased at my local Marathon(VW specifically recommends using top tier fuel) and will continue using VW OEM filters and VW 502.00 spec oil changed at one year or 5,000 miles. I have 2 more jugs of the clearance 0w40 Penzoil Platinum Euro left to use. And LotI, thanks for your suggestion on rotating the tires. The fronts were at 7/32 while the rears were 9/32 so I went ahead and rotated them.
 
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Originally Posted by WhizkidTN

Actually, incorrect. As of today we get this from none other than Honda:
Take a good look at that picture!

This is just me, but that one specific picture sure looks more like oil starvation to that journal, NOT a widespread failure due to fuel in the oil. How do I personally make that determination? Well, the discoloration due to extreme heat, and the fact that the cam directly next to the extreme heat is RUSTY.... if there was oil present on the surface and displacing water, no rust would be formed. Also, it's obvious the cam didn't snap until it welded itself to the journal, which generally requires... you guessed it, extreme heat and lack of lubrication. You'll also note that there is no other oil in that photo of the cylinder head... none in the low spots around head bolts, just a bare misting of wetness at best anywhere on that head, which also leads me to buy starvation due to lack of oil rather than fuel in the oil, for that specific photo which is all we can assess from that article. Either way, it's elementary at best: I'm not going to buy a tiny, highly stressed TGDI engine; and Honda (or any manufacturer) is going to blame the cheapest, easiest fix in lieu of an extremely costly recall... which brings us to the quote below:
Originally Posted by Ward's Auto via Honda
The 1.5L, part of the automaker's highly efficient "Earth Dreams" family, is slow to reach optimum operating temperature that would normally cause fuel to readily evaporate and be routed back to the combustion chamber via the crankcase ventilation system.

And there it is, like so many other times people want to blame oil as the culprit... the root cause is actually poor engineering and systems design. We all know that "highly efficient" engines are ones that reach operating temperature quickly so as to get the oil warm to reduce friction and hot to improve combustion through better fuel vaporization!
Originally Posted by Ward's Auto
The repairs involve transmission and engine software changes that allow the engine to warm up quicker, reducing the possibility of unevaporated fuel collecting in the engine oil early in the drive cycle. Ignition timing, CVT control and air-conditioning operations are modified to help the engine warm up and retain heat.

The oil that Honda uses is the exact same as millions of other engines successfully use to travel hundreds of thousands of miles. Just like any engineer knows- when you push past the limit, you generally get burned in very short order. Murphy's law is a MF of the greatest magnitude!

My favorite interpretation of this: "If there is a possibility of several things going wrong, the one that will go wrong is the one that will cause the most damage."
 
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