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Penzoil Platinum Euro 0w40 4,445 Miles on 2017 1.4 Jetta TSI #5112725
05/22/19 06:51 PM
05/22/19 06:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 29
Ohio
Joe_H Offline OP
Joe_H  Offline OP

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 29
Ohio
2017 Jetta 1.4 TSI. Approximately 1 year and 4,445 miles on this sample. Penzoil Platinum Euro 0w40 502.00 VW Spec purchased at Walmart on clearance for $13 a 5qt jug. 7,105 total miles on this engine.
I do a lot of short trips since my work commute is only a few miles, so I was concerned with fuel dilution, especially considering the direct injection.

oil analysis 2017 jetta.png

2017 VW Jetta SE 1.4 TSI
1987 Chevy Custom Deluxe R10 Pickup 5.7 TBI
Re: Penzoil Platinum Euro 0w40 4,445 Miles on 2017 1.4 Jetta TSI [Re: Joe_H] #5112759
05/22/19 07:21 PM
05/22/19 07:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,580
America's Dairyland
LotI Offline
LotI  Offline

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,580
America's Dairyland
Looks fine. Still breaking in.


03 Honda Interceptor
11 Kawasaki KLR 650
12 Ford E450
17 VW GTI
[IMG]http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-us/803455.png[/IMG]
Re: Penzoil Platinum Euro 0w40 4,445 Miles on 2017 1.4 Jetta TSI [Re: Joe_H] #5112828
05/22/19 08:21 PM
05/22/19 08:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 660
E. Tennessee
WhizkidTN Offline
WhizkidTN  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 660
E. Tennessee
Don't believe BlackStone's Fuel dilution figures! I did a dual sample a couple of years back (one to BlackStone, one to Polaris) and the Blackstone came back "fine" and it was over 5% on the Polaris UOA (which they use the correct Gas Chromatography method).

YMMV.


His: '12 Kia Optima SX - 2.0L GDI Twin-Scroll Turbo [Tuned] (81K)
>EDGE 0W-40, Fram XG9688
Her's: '14 Nissan Rogue SL AWD - 2.5L NA (84K)
>EDGE 0W-20, Fram XG6607
Re: Penzoil Platinum Euro 0w40 4,445 Miles on 2017 1.4 Jetta TSI [Re: Joe_H] #5112834
05/22/19 08:28 PM
05/22/19 08:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,398
KS
FordBroncoVWJeta Offline
FordBroncoVWJeta  Offline

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,398
KS
I highly doubt that fuel dilution figure is right. All the DI engines in my sig smell like gas in the oil. I only do 5K OCI because of this.


2017 Volkswagen Jetta 1.4T - 2015 Honda CRV 2.4 - 2012 Volkswagen Jetta 2.0 - 2007 Chevy Trailblazer 4.2 - 2003 Ford Taurus 3.0 Vulcan
Re: Penzoil Platinum Euro 0w40 4,445 Miles on 2017 1.4 Jetta TSI [Re: FordBroncoVWJeta] #5112858
05/22/19 08:49 PM
05/22/19 08:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 29
Ohio
Joe_H Offline OP
Joe_H  Offline OP

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 29
Ohio
Originally Posted by FordBroncoVWJeta
I highly doubt that fuel dilution figure is right. All the DI engines in my sig smell like gas in the oil. I only do 5K OCI because of this.


I never smelled any fuel on my dipstick but I also plan on sticking to 5,000 or less OCI which conveniently works out to about once a year for me.

Last edited by Joe_H; 05/22/19 08:58 PM.

2017 VW Jetta SE 1.4 TSI
1987 Chevy Custom Deluxe R10 Pickup 5.7 TBI
Re: Penzoil Platinum Euro 0w40 4,445 Miles on 2017 1.4 Jetta TSI [Re: Joe_H] #5112930
05/22/19 10:23 PM
05/22/19 10:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,580
America's Dairyland
LotI Offline
LotI  Offline

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,580
America's Dairyland
Originally Posted by Joe_H
Originally Posted by FordBroncoVWJeta
I highly doubt that fuel dilution figure is right. All the DI engines in my sig smell like gas in the oil. I only do 5K OCI because of this.


I never smelled any fuel on my dipstick but I also plan on sticking to 5,000 or less OCI which conveniently works out to about once a year for me.

5k is what I do too, 10k filters. I know I could do 10k because of my highway miles and UOA results but clearance oil is cheap! 5k is easy to keep track of and 1/2 of VAG’s recommendation. It’s time to rotate tires too, at 10k they’re already showing irregular wear.


03 Honda Interceptor
11 Kawasaki KLR 650
12 Ford E450
17 VW GTI
[IMG]http://badges.fuelly.com/images/sig-us/803455.png[/IMG]
Re: Penzoil Platinum Euro 0w40 4,445 Miles on 2017 1.4 Jetta TSI [Re: WhizkidTN] #5112977
05/22/19 11:43 PM
05/22/19 11:43 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,883
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Offline
SubieRubyRoo  Offline

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,883
The land of USA-made Subies!
Originally Posted by WhizkidTN
Don't believe BlackStone's Fuel dilution figures! I did a dual sample a couple of years back (one to BlackStone, one to Polaris) and the Blackstone came back "fine" and it was over 5% on the Polaris UOA (which they use the correct Gas Chromatography method).

YMMV.


So..... where are all the destroyed GDI engines from excessive fuel dilution? Blackstone's number may be off... but Polaris' GCMS reporting hasn't changed any UOAs nor prevented major catastrophes. The two most important pieces of info from a UOA are viscosity (did the oil stay in grade/high enough viscosity for engine protection), and did it have reserve TBN (flashpoint can be a concern if below ~385*F or so). Did the oil stay in the 'original' grade- no. But since the engine only requires a 5W30, it still has enough viscosity. TBN was not tested on this one, but from my personal experience, it would probably be in the 5.0-6.0 range at this low mileage.

For all the tantrums and Chicken Little-ing about fuel dilution percentages at OCIs shorter than the manufacturer's recommendation here, there are literally millions of people driving GDIs up to and beyond the mfr's mileage with the absolute cheapest oil, likely conventional or blends, with most likely no statistical difference in failures compared to those using well-formulated, synthetic oils such as the OP is. Fuel dilution is not the looming disaster that you make it out to be as evidenced by hundreds of EB 3.5 UOAs showing significant fuel dilution, and could be influenced by something as simple as a long warmup and/or short trip just before the sample was pulled.

OP, if you have more of this oil, I would continue to use it, and run it somewhere around 5-6k before you pull another sample. PPE 0W40 is a stout oil.

Re: Penzoil Platinum Euro 0w40 4,445 Miles on 2017 1.4 Jetta TSI [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #5113130
05/23/19 06:50 AM
05/23/19 06:50 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 660
E. Tennessee
WhizkidTN Offline
WhizkidTN  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 660
E. Tennessee
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by WhizkidTN
Don't believe BlackStone's Fuel dilution figures! I did a dual sample a couple of years back (one to BlackStone, one to Polaris) and the Blackstone came back "fine" and it was over 5% on the Polaris UOA (which they use the correct Gas Chromatography method).

YMMV.


So..... where are all the destroyed GDI engines from excessive fuel dilution? Blackstone's number may be off... but Polaris' GCMS reporting hasn't changed any UOAs nor prevented major catastrophes. The two most important pieces of info from a UOA are viscosity (did the oil stay in grade/high enough viscosity for engine protection), and did it have reserve TBN (flashpoint can be a concern if below ~385*F or so). Did the oil stay in the 'original' grade- no. But since the engine only requires a 5W30, it still has enough viscosity. TBN was not tested on this one, but from my personal experience, it would probably be in the 5.0-6.0 range at this low mileage.

For all the tantrums and Chicken Little-ing about fuel dilution percentages at OCIs shorter than the manufacturer's recommendation here, there are literally millions of people driving GDIs up to and beyond the mfr's mileage with the absolute cheapest oil, likely conventional or blends, with most likely no statistical difference in failures compared to those using well-formulated, synthetic oils such as the OP is. Fuel dilution is not the looming disaster that you make it out to be as evidenced by hundreds of EB 3.5 UOAs showing significant fuel dilution, and could be influenced by something as simple as a long warmup and/or short trip just before the sample was pulled.

OP, if you have more of this oil, I would continue to use it, and run it somewhere around 5-6k before you pull another sample. PPE 0W40 is a stout oil.


You make some valid points. In the lifetime of my engine (76K miles before she dumped with the known defect of the "Rod Knock of Death") all my UOA showed reasonable wear metals, but a significant drop in TBN (sheared down the oil) and an increase in oxidation, etc. All the Polaris UOA I did showed very high fuel dilution figures and I always did my changes after 20 miles of driving (min.) to ensure I was pulling an accurate sample. I followed the severe service schedule of close to 4K miles for my OCI and have always used full synthetic 0W-40 oil (M1 then Castrol Edge). I also run PCV/intake catch cans and Top Tier fuel.

There have been far too many Theta II GDI engines that have been sludge monsters with many resulting in failures via poor maintenance (far too long OCI), so I don't think one can say it makes no difference in engine life. I tend to keep my cars to 250K+ miles so I pay attention to whatever "tweaks" I can do to attempt to ensure a long and problem free service life.

Last edited by WhizkidTN; 05/23/19 07:12 AM. Reason: grammar, info

His: '12 Kia Optima SX - 2.0L GDI Twin-Scroll Turbo [Tuned] (81K)
>EDGE 0W-40, Fram XG9688
Her's: '14 Nissan Rogue SL AWD - 2.5L NA (84K)
>EDGE 0W-20, Fram XG6607
Re: Penzoil Platinum Euro 0w40 4,445 Miles on 2017 1.4 Jetta TSI [Re: Joe_H] #5113218
05/23/19 08:23 AM
05/23/19 08:23 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,777
Canada
addyguy Offline
addyguy  Offline

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,777
Canada
For all short trips on a new engine, I'd say it looks fine.


2010 Kia Soul 2U - 2.0L I-4, auto; 143k miles.
Castrol GTX HM 5W-30, STP blue bottle; Fram TG 9688.

2009 Pontiac G5 - 2.2 I-4, auto, 121k miles.
Oil/filter TBD
Re: Penzoil Platinum Euro 0w40 4,445 Miles on 2017 1.4 Jetta TSI [Re: WhizkidTN] #5113249
05/23/19 08:59 AM
05/23/19 08:59 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,815
Kendall, FL
wemay Offline
wemay  Offline

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,815
Kendall, FL
Originally Posted by WhizkidTN
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by WhizkidTN
Don't believe BlackStone's Fuel dilution figures! I did a dual sample a couple of years back (one to BlackStone, one to Polaris) and the Blackstone came back "fine" and it was over 5% on the Polaris UOA (which they use the correct Gas Chromatography method).

YMMV.


So..... where are all the destroyed GDI engines from excessive fuel dilution? Blackstone's number may be off... but Polaris' GCMS reporting hasn't changed any UOAs nor prevented major catastrophes. The two most important pieces of info from a UOA are viscosity (did the oil stay in grade/high enough viscosity for engine protection), and did it have reserve TBN (flashpoint can be a concern if below ~385*F or so). Did the oil stay in the 'original' grade- no. But since the engine only requires a 5W30, it still has enough viscosity. TBN was not tested on this one, but from my personal experience, it would probably be in the 5.0-6.0 range at this low mileage.

For all the tantrums and Chicken Little-ing about fuel dilution percentages at OCIs shorter than the manufacturer's recommendation here, there are literally millions of people driving GDIs up to and beyond the mfr's mileage with the absolute cheapest oil, likely conventional or blends, with most likely no statistical difference in failures compared to those using well-formulated, synthetic oils such as the OP is. Fuel dilution is not the looming disaster that you make it out to be as evidenced by hundreds of EB 3.5 UOAs showing significant fuel dilution, and could be influenced by something as simple as a long warmup and/or short trip just before the sample was pulled.

OP, if you have more of this oil, I would continue to use it, and run it somewhere around 5-6k before you pull another sample. PPE 0W40 is a stout oil.


You make some valid points. In the lifetime of my engine (76K miles before she dumped with the known defect of the "Rod Knock of Death") all my UOA showed reasonable wear metals, but a significant drop in TBN (sheared down the oil) and an increase in oxidation, etc. All the Polaris UOA I did showed very high fuel dilution figures and I always did my changes after 20 miles of driving (min.) to ensure I was pulling an accurate sample. I followed the severe service schedule of close to 4K miles for my OCI and have always used full synthetic 0W-40 oil (M1 then Castrol Edge). I also run PCV/intake catch cans and Top Tier fuel.

There have been far too many Theta II GDI engines that have been sludge monsters with many resulting in failures via poor maintenance (far too long OCI), so I don't think one can say it makes no difference in engine life. I tend to keep my cars to 250K+ miles so I pay attention to whatever "tweaks" I can do to attempt to ensure a long and problem free service life.


You're Optima is also tuned, so the Xw40 throughout the life of the vehicle is understood. We've owned our SFS 2.0T since new and now have close to 180K miles. We've used Conventional 5W30 twice (VWB) and 5W40 (EDGE) about 20% of the time. The remainder has been 5/10W30 Syn and never an interval of more than 4K miles. I have yet to see any starting, driving, idling issues from deposits, or smell fuel on dipstick. The one constant has always been Top Tier fuel - 87 and 93 in a 50/50 split.


2018 KIA Sportage 2.4 AWD:
Carquest Full Syn 5W-20, Carquest Prem 85334

2013 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport 2.0T:
Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5W-30, OEM


Re: Penzoil Platinum Euro 0w40 4,445 Miles on 2017 1.4 Jetta TSI [Re: WhizkidTN] #5113264
05/23/19 09:21 AM
05/23/19 09:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 79
Iowa City
Talent_Keyhole Offline
Talent_Keyhole  Offline

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 79
Iowa City
Originally Posted by WhizkidTN
Don't believe BlackStone's Fuel dilution figures! I did a dual sample a couple of years back (one to BlackStone, one to Polaris) and the Blackstone came back "fine" and it was over 5% on the Polaris UOA (which they use the correct Gas Chromatography method).

YMMV.


I'll second those comments, same experience with BSL and Polaris in terms of Fuel Dilution. My Ecotec 2.4L with GDI, hits 5% in about 1700 miles of mixed driving, regardless of weather. Viscosity drops at least 2 cST, and shears back to a 20W oil, using AC Delco Dexos1 Gen 2, API SN Full Synthetic. TBN drops from 6.5 to 3-4, oxidation and nitration increases 3 points, and I lose 50% of the boron additive.

Re: Penzoil Platinum Euro 0w40 4,445 Miles on 2017 1.4 Jetta TSI [Re: Talent_Keyhole] #5113672
05/23/19 03:50 PM
05/23/19 03:50 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,883
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Offline
SubieRubyRoo  Offline

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,883
The land of USA-made Subies!
Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
I'll second those comments, same experience with BSL and Polaris in terms of Fuel Dilution.


Yet still no reports of catastrophic engine failures due to fuel dilution in the oil. Thanks for confirming.

As far as the rest of your post, it simply sounds like you're not driving it often enough, nor hard enough. ANY engine with extremely short trips, regardless of weather, will show some fuel dilution; it's why most manufacturers recommend halving the interval if this is the case. But that is more for the possibility of water in the oil and corrosion than fuel; and also, when starting with a super-low TBN oil that is formulated with ashless detergents, TBN is not reported correctly by the ASTM test they are currently using. Also, at 5% fuel, you are not shearing the oil to a 20W, it is simply being diluted down to a 20W.

Re: Penzoil Platinum Euro 0w40 4,445 Miles on 2017 1.4 Jetta TSI [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #5114576
05/24/19 12:59 PM
05/24/19 12:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 660
E. Tennessee
WhizkidTN Offline
WhizkidTN  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 660
E. Tennessee
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by Talent_Keyhole
I'll second those comments, same experience with BSL and Polaris in terms of Fuel Dilution.


Yet still no reports of catastrophic engine failures due to fuel dilution in the oil. Thanks for confirming.

As far as the rest of your post, it simply sounds like you're not driving it often enough, nor hard enough. ANY engine with extremely short trips, regardless of weather, will show some fuel dilution; it's why most manufacturers recommend halving the interval if this is the case. But that is more for the possibility of water in the oil and corrosion than fuel; and also, when starting with a super-low TBN oil that is formulated with ashless detergents, TBN is not reported correctly by the ASTM test they are currently using. Also, at 5% fuel, you are not shearing the oil to a 20W, it is simply being diluted down to a 20W.


Actually, incorrect. As of today we get this from none other than Honda:

https://www.wardsauto.com/engines/h...mp;elq2=31a505e3bfbd482e808a9f825fb38c41

Take a good look at that picture!


His: '12 Kia Optima SX - 2.0L GDI Twin-Scroll Turbo [Tuned] (81K)
>EDGE 0W-40, Fram XG9688
Her's: '14 Nissan Rogue SL AWD - 2.5L NA (84K)
>EDGE 0W-20, Fram XG6607
Re: Penzoil Platinum Euro 0w40 4,445 Miles on 2017 1.4 Jetta TSI [Re: Joe_H] #5114634
05/24/19 01:59 PM
05/24/19 01:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,794
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Offline
JohnnyJohnson  Offline

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,794
Wet side WA
New engine breaking in nothing unexpected.


2004 Corolla 132497
Out: EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 7156 Miles
In: Havoline Pro DS 10w-30 Purolator PureOne 3-14-19 129693
2006 Duramax 74906
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73705 4-22-18
Re: Penzoil Platinum Euro 0w40 4,445 Miles on 2017 1.4 Jetta TSI [Re: JohnnyJohnson] #5115761
05/25/19 07:44 PM
05/25/19 07:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 29
Ohio
Joe_H Offline OP
Joe_H  Offline OP

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 29
Ohio
This Jetta is a lease, so I will have to make a decision on either turning it in at lease end or buying it. I figured getting an UOA report will help me with that decision. I wanted to know if it can tolerate a lot of short trips as well as brutal winters like we just had here in Ohio. I normally just park it outside in the elements the majority of the time in the winter so I don't have to deal with the salt and grime in my garage and there were multiple days of very cold starts when the temps dipped below zero.

It looks like its doing just fine based on the UOA report and comments from this thread so I will be more confident in buying it if I should so choose especially since I will likely only have half the mileage cap used up and the Buyout is only $10,900. I do use nothing but top tier 87 octane gas mostly purchased at my local Marathon(VW specifically recommends using top tier fuel) and will continue using VW OEM filters and VW 502.00 spec oil changed at one year or 5,000 miles. I have 2 more jugs of the clearance 0w40 Penzoil Platinum Euro left to use. And LotI, thanks for your suggestion on rotating the tires. The fronts were at 7/32 while the rears were 9/32 so I went ahead and rotated them.

Last edited by Joe_H; 05/25/19 07:55 PM.

2017 VW Jetta SE 1.4 TSI
1987 Chevy Custom Deluxe R10 Pickup 5.7 TBI
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