FRAM Tough Guard TG3600 @3053 Miles, 4 Months

Pinoak · May 21, 2019

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Any filter, regardless of construction and if it has a center tube or not, will leak dirty oil if the ends of the pleats are not sealed 100%. This is a new venture into the weeds as a back peddle move.

No it's not, whatever that is supposed to mean about back pedal move. The Fram has a defect and the pleats are exposed. A Toyota that has no defects is not the same discussion. It would be like saying your perfect Ultra "could have" an oil leak. Maybe the end cap has a hole it it. etc. Made up stuff. This one here the cap is off the pleats, not as designed. There is a strong reason it could have a leak.

Maybe grasping at straws is a better description. So how is it going to leak dirty oil because of those exposed pleats? Photo isn't even clear enough to see exactly what's going on inside that gap with the pleat ends as far as the glue job. What if there was no center tube at all like some cartridge filters? - the ultimate "gap" and exposure of pleats. Your getting pretty obtuse saying "there could be no glue on some of the pleat ends" ... but where's the proof that's the case? Can you find any C&P thread where that's been shown? People could say "there could be a flaw" on any oil filter ever made with no visible proof ... that's all you've done in this case.

So where is the proof that this one is leaking dirty oil at the gap?

All that's being said is that it's shoddy construction. It very well could leak. Also this is not by any means an isolated case. A lot of the ocod and tgs have endcaps that are offset like this.
Personally, after using and dissecting one, I consider the brittle end cap material to be a liability.

Sayjac · May 21, 2019

Originally Posted by wemay
A spade is a spade. If this were a Puro, it would be crucified, torched and ridiculed to no end...
An astute observation, and spot on imo.

The area shown is 'if' exposed or open during oci/fci an area of oil bypass. Now whether that area was exposed during oci/fci, ie., before dissection, stipulate open to debate. But as shown, exposed area shows where unfiltered oil directly to outlet and not passing through media first. When I see an area like it corresponding to a badly distorted pleat(s) and droopy endcap I'm more inclined believe exposed during the oci/fci. With this one, all things considered including fci, generally good pleat uniformity and endcap appearance, give it the benefit of the doubt.

And btw, a really excellent job on pic with green and red dot area identification. Kudos to blupupher.

DuckRyder · May 22, 2019

Originally Posted by Sayjac
Originally Posted by wemay
A spade is a spade. If this were a Puro, it would be crucified, torched and ridiculed to no end...
An astute observation, and spot on imo.

The area shown is 'if' exposed or open during oci/fci an area of oil bypass. Now whether that area was exposed during oci/fci, ie., before dissection, stipulate open to debate. But as shown, exposed area shows where unfiltered oil directly to outlet and not passing through media first. When I see an area like it corresponding to a badly distorted pleat(s) and droopy endcap I'm more inclined believe exposed during the oci/fci. With this one, all things considered including fci, generally good pleat uniformity and endcap appearance, give it the benefit of the doubt.

And btw, a really excellent job on pic with green and red dot area identification. Kudos to blupupher.

If in fact the ends of the pleats are exposed, yes oil could bypass the media, however I don't believe that is what we are seeing in the picture. Looks to me like simply the inside of the media cartridge. (and I've blown the picture up in a new window)

And yes, if the media collapses to the point the seal with the leaf is compromised then there is a area for bypass. I also don't think this is what we are seeing here.

But I hope we aren't back to this idea that the gap between the center tube and media is an area of bypass because it isn't... you could remove the center tube entirely and as long as the media did not collapse the filter would function the same. I've asked repeatedly for someone to explain how they believe otherwise and have never gotten an explanation. That is because it doesn't happen.

I've cut open a fair number of these filters and have never seen one with the ends of the media exposed.

AuthorEditor · May 22, 2019

Sheesh, this relates to the Brand post I made. Some people seem to have it in for FRAM no matter what evidence is shown otherwise. I have no doubt similar complaints could be made about almost every filter that is cut open. The thing I wonder about with almost all filters is how good is that seal between the dirty oil side and the clean oil in the center tube? A lot of filters feature a metal-to-metal seal there, where these FRAMs have metal pressing against the fiber endcaps. The thing I wonder about, but have no evidence for, is if the bypass valve prevents any flexing of those fiber endcaps so that bad oil can't migrate under the metal and into the center tube. I suspect they are engineered properly to prevent that, but it does seem like there is a potential there for leakage. Of course, even with a metal seal against a metal endcap there is a potential for leakage if everything isn't engineered and manufactured properly.

Sayjac · May 22, 2019

As stated the area as shown is an area of dirty oil bypass 'if' that area as shown is exposed that during the oci/fci. That as correctly note in the blupupher's post. There's no mention of centertube removal in my post and thus irrelevant ie,. moot point. I will add though if this filter had no centertube the only thing supporting the bypass flat compression spring combo would be the media itself. Clearly Fram doesn't think that design would work, and I'm unaware of any spin on filter that doesn't have one of some type.

So as noted, I believe the area shown 'if' exposed during the oci/fci, it is an area of oil bypass. And I believe that is what is shown in the pic and the subsequent noted excellent ID pic.

And as point of reference, currently running an Ultra so brand bias not applicable here.

ZeeOSix · May 22, 2019

Originally Posted by Sayjac
So as noted, I believe the area shown 'if' exposed during the oci/fci, it is an area of oil bypass. And I believe that is what is shown in the pic and the subsequent noted excellent ID pic.

So you can see for sure in that photo that the visible pleats through the gap are not 100% glued/sealed to the end cap?