My observation with German cars is that they may not accelerate like a Viper, but even the most humble ones handle quite well at a good speed. 120 mph was less alarming in my Audi 200 than it was in my Lightning.
2019 - 502/505 is dead in US
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Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
The 30,000 km OCI is not a fixed OCI. It is flexible service interval, based on driving habits. It is certainly possible that the oil life monitor will tell a driver to change the oil at 16,000 km or sooner, especially a driver in an urban area. Also potentially disappearing from the Autobahn is unlimited speed limit zones, due to climate change concerns, which would bring their average freeway speeds more in-line with the US.
Well that's not really the point. If they spec an oil for USA they know if will (should) only be used for maximum 10k or one year. So perhaps giving up a little HTHS in this scenario is no big deal when they know the potential in Europe still exists to go much farther. CAFE matters but I'm not convinced it is the whole story.
VW has always spec'd an oil to be used for a max of 10,000 miles, when there was alternative specification with the same HTHS requirement that is suitable for their Flexible Service Interval.
In Europe, prior to 2019, with the introduction of OPF's, fixed interval cars used 502.00. Flex intervals used 504.00, WITHOUT giving up on HTHS.
Even before 504/507 standard, VW's flex intervals were 503/506 standard, with the same HTHS requirement (except 506.01, which was a 0w30 with 2.6 to 3.5 HTHS)
Prior to 2019, 502.00 was specified even though they know the potential in Europe still exists to go much farther, without giving up on HTHS.
Also as pointed out earlier, 508.00 SAP's is not suitable for the OPF's now installed on 2019 Cars, which 504.00 has a lower limit on SAP's than 508.00.
Keep in mind though, 504/507 standard was initially meant to supercede both fixed intervals (502/505) and flex service intervals (503/506) into a single standard. And, 0w30 504.00 is being spec'd on USA 2019 Golf R's, with a fixed interval with the ability to go flexible intervals in Europe with the OPF.
![[Linked Image]](https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190510/ad638126b920e042866040fad753207e.jpg "[Linked Image]")
https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthr...p=113338953&viewfull=1#post113338953
Yes, I realize this. However, until recently in the USA there was no alternative to 502 with similar HTHS that could be used. Even if they wanted to extend OCI, it was not possible with US gasoline. Now that lower sulfur gasoline is here they have switched cars with 3.5 HTHS requirement to 504 and 502 is essentially obsolete.
I'm sure the 508 was designed because they needed to increase mileage overall. However unless someone is tracking the car or towing etc, it likely makes little to no difference in terms of engine longevity when compared to using 504 or 502 instead.
Actually, older Mobil 1 0w40 met 503.01, which is a flexible service interval oil, so there was an alternative (before the current FS version that lost some certs). Pretty sure the old GC 0w30 was a 503.01 oil also.
Yes, the 508 was designed to promise the 4% fuel economy, but comparing GTI's from 2018 to 2019, 508.00 according to the EPA fuel economy estimates, isn't proving to be a 4% improvement, it's about equal in the DSG realm, but about a 4% loss when comparing 2018 6MT to a 2019 6MT.
All the Budack's are designed to run 508.00 from the start, so there is no published data point to compare to a 502 or 504 oil.
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
The 30,000 km OCI is not a fixed OCI. It is flexible service interval, based on driving habits. It is certainly possible that the oil life monitor will tell a driver to change the oil at 16,000 km or sooner, especially a driver in an urban area. Also potentially disappearing from the Autobahn is unlimited speed limit zones, due to climate change concerns, which would bring their average freeway speeds more in-line with the US.
Well that's not really the point. If they spec an oil for USA they know if will (should) only be used for maximum 10k or one year. So perhaps giving up a little HTHS in this scenario is no big deal when they know the potential in Europe still exists to go much farther. CAFE matters but I'm not convinced it is the whole story.
VW has always spec'd an oil to be used for a max of 10,000 miles, when there was alternative specification with the same HTHS requirement that is suitable for their Flexible Service Interval.
In Europe, prior to 2019, with the introduction of OPF's, fixed interval cars used 502.00. Flex intervals used 504.00, WITHOUT giving up on HTHS.
Even before 504/507 standard, VW's flex intervals were 503/506 standard, with the same HTHS requirement (except 506.01, which was a 0w30 with 2.6 to 3.5 HTHS)
Prior to 2019, 502.00 was specified even though they know the potential in Europe still exists to go much farther, without giving up on HTHS.
Also as pointed out earlier, 508.00 SAP's is not suitable for the OPF's now installed on 2019 Cars, which 504.00 has a lower limit on SAP's than 508.00.
Keep in mind though, 504/507 standard was initially meant to supercede both fixed intervals (502/505) and flex service intervals (503/506) into a single standard. And, 0w30 504.00 is being spec'd on USA 2019 Golf R's, with a fixed interval with the ability to go flexible intervals in Europe with the OPF.
https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthr...p=113338953&viewfull=1#post113338953
Yes, I realize this. However, until recently in the USA there was no alternative to 502 with similar HTHS that could be used. Even if they wanted to extend OCI, it was not possible with US gasoline. Now that lower sulfur gasoline is here they have switched cars with 3.5 HTHS requirement to 504 and 502 is essentially obsolete.
I'm sure the 508 was designed because they needed to increase mileage overall. However unless someone is tracking the car or towing etc, it likely makes little to no difference in terms of engine longevity when compared to using 504 or 502 instead.
Actually, older Mobil 1 0w40 met 503.01, which is a flexible service interval oil, so there was an alternative (before the current FS version that lost some certs). Pretty sure the old GC 0w30 was a 503.01 oil also.
Yes, the 508 was designed to promise the 4% fuel economy, but comparing GTI's from 2018 to 2019, 508.00 according to the EPA fuel economy estimates, isn't proving to be a 4% improvement, it's about equal in the DSG realm, but about a 4% loss when comparing 2018 6MT to a 2019 6MT.
All the Budack's are designed to run 508.00 from the start, so there is no published data point to compare to a 502 or 504 oil.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted by Garak
My observation with German cars is that they may not accelerate like a Viper, but even the most humble ones handle quite well at a good speed. 120 mph was less alarming in my Audi 200 than it was in my Lightning.
Agree. Which has far less to do with oil specs as opposed to chassis settings.
My observation with German cars is that they may not accelerate like a Viper, but even the most humble ones handle quite well at a good speed. 120 mph was less alarming in my Audi 200 than it was in my Lightning.
Agree. Which has far less to do with oil specs as opposed to chassis settings.
Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by Garak
My observation with German cars is that they may not accelerate like a Viper, but even the most humble ones handle quite well at a good speed. 120 mph was less alarming in my Audi 200 than it was in my Lightning.
Agree. Which has far less to do with oil specs as opposed to chassis settings.
Thing is that average European driver is driving much smaller engine than average American driver is driving. However, speeds of 100mph for 1.0 turbo engine are very normal occurrence in Europe, while 100mph is far for normal for any vehicle n the US.
There is a reason why 90% of vehicles in Europe (including American and Asian) are running on ACEA A3 or C3 oils.
Originally Posted by Garak
My observation with German cars is that they may not accelerate like a Viper, but even the most humble ones handle quite well at a good speed. 120 mph was less alarming in my Audi 200 than it was in my Lightning.
Agree. Which has far less to do with oil specs as opposed to chassis settings.
Thing is that average European driver is driving much smaller engine than average American driver is driving. However, speeds of 100mph for 1.0 turbo engine are very normal occurrence in Europe, while 100mph is far for normal for any vehicle n the US.
There is a reason why 90% of vehicles in Europe (including American and Asian) are running on ACEA A3 or C3 oils.
Last edited:
Aside from chassis, the old Audi 200 was certainly set up for speed, and that giant oil cooler was a thing of beauty!
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by Garak
My observation with German cars is that they may not accelerate like a Viper, but even the most humble ones handle quite well at a good speed. 120 mph was less alarming in my Audi 200 than it was in my Lightning.
Agree. Which has far less to do with oil specs as opposed to chassis settings.
Thing is that average European driver is driving much smaller engine than average American driver is driving. However, speeds of 100mph for 1.0 turbo engine are very normal occurrence in Europe, while 100mph is far for normal for any vehicle n the US.
There is a reason why 90% of vehicles in Europe (including American and Asian) are running on ACEA A3 or C3 oils.
100mph on European roads in 1L Turbos is not a "normal occurrence". Those speeds may have been more commonplace in the 90s than now, but the myth that most cars were/are doing this on their daily commute is simply not true, and as much a fallacy as most Americans where 10 gallon cowboy hats and boots. Now, all that being said, I do believe CAFE is partially responsible for the lower grade recommendation, just not wholly. Member, Jimmy_Russles makes some good points to that end.
Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by Garak
My observation with German cars is that they may not accelerate like a Viper, but even the most humble ones handle quite well at a good speed. 120 mph was less alarming in my Audi 200 than it was in my Lightning.
Agree. Which has far less to do with oil specs as opposed to chassis settings.
Thing is that average European driver is driving much smaller engine than average American driver is driving. However, speeds of 100mph for 1.0 turbo engine are very normal occurrence in Europe, while 100mph is far for normal for any vehicle n the US.
There is a reason why 90% of vehicles in Europe (including American and Asian) are running on ACEA A3 or C3 oils.
100mph on European roads in 1L Turbos is not a "normal occurrence". Those speeds may have been more commonplace in the 90s than now, but the myth that most cars were/are doing this on their daily commute is simply not true, and as much a fallacy as most Americans where 10 gallon cowboy hats and boots. Now, all that being said, I do believe CAFE is partially responsible for the lower grade recommendation, just not wholly. Member, Jimmy_Russles makes some good points to that end.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by Garak
My observation with German cars is that they may not accelerate like a Viper, but even the most humble ones handle quite well at a good speed. 120 mph was less alarming in my Audi 200 than it was in my Lightning.
Agree. Which has far less to do with oil specs as opposed to chassis settings.
Thing is that average European driver is driving much smaller engine than average American driver is driving. However, speeds of 100mph for 1.0 turbo engine are very normal occurrence in Europe, while 100mph is far for normal for any vehicle n the US.
There is a reason why 90% of vehicles in Europe (including American and Asian) are running on ACEA A3 or C3 oils.
100mph on European roads in 1L Turbos is not a "normal occurrence". Those speeds may have been more commonplace in the 90s than now, but the myth that most cars were/are doing this on their daily commute is simply not true, and as much a fallacy as most Americans where 10 gallon cowboy hats and boots. Now, all that being said, I do believe CAFE is partially responsible for the lower grade recommendation, just not wholly. Member, Jimmy_Russles makes some good points to that end.
LOL, OK, I am from Europe, spend good chunk of a year there, drive all the time in Germany, Austria, Italy, and 100mph is common occurrence.
Now, to the 90's, common occurrence in 90's would be Golf II GTI trying to reach 134mph all day.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by Garak
My observation with German cars is that they may not accelerate like a Viper, but even the most humble ones handle quite well at a good speed. 120 mph was less alarming in my Audi 200 than it was in my Lightning.
Agree. Which has far less to do with oil specs as opposed to chassis settings.
Thing is that average European driver is driving much smaller engine than average American driver is driving. However, speeds of 100mph for 1.0 turbo engine are very normal occurrence in Europe, while 100mph is far for normal for any vehicle n the US.
There is a reason why 90% of vehicles in Europe (including American and Asian) are running on ACEA A3 or C3 oils.
100mph on European roads in 1L Turbos is not a "normal occurrence". Those speeds may have been more commonplace in the 90s than now, but the myth that most cars were/are doing this on their daily commute is simply not true, and as much a fallacy as most Americans where 10 gallon cowboy hats and boots. Now, all that being said, I do believe CAFE is partially responsible for the lower grade recommendation, just not wholly. Member, Jimmy_Russles makes some good points to that end.
LOL, OK, I am from Europe, spend good chunk of a year there, drive all the time in Germany, Austria, Italy, and 100mph is common occurrence.
Now, to the 90's, common occurrence in 90's would be Golf II GTI trying to reach 134mph all day.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
edyvw...
Ok, we'll agree to disagree on that topic and since your observation is firsthand, and mine is reliant on my cousin who works for AirBus and lives between Spain and Germany, i will concede other's should take your opinion more seriously, but, your point on the Golf II GTi is very true, i was one of those looking to eek out every ounce of power from both, my 8v and 16v GTi's back then.
Ok, we'll agree to disagree on that topic and since your observation is firsthand, and mine is reliant on my cousin who works for AirBus and lives between Spain and Germany, i will concede other's should take your opinion more seriously, but, your point on the Golf II GTi is very true, i was one of those looking to eek out every ounce of power from both, my 8v and 16v GTi's back then.
Originally Posted by wemay
edyvw...
Ok, we'll agree to disagree on that topic and since your observation is firsthand, and mine is reliant on my cousin who works for AirBus and lives between Spain and Germany, i will concede other's should take your opinion more seriously, but, your point on the Golf II GTi is very true, i was one of those looking to eek out every ounce of power from both, my 8v and 16v GTi's back then.
Listen, there is no doubt things in Europe are not as what they used to be. Germany is outlier, but traffic makes things snarl during the day in Western part, Eastern part not so much. Still, it is faster than here, by large margin.
Places where people should be super careful are Austria and Switzerland, they are going after speeders and since this is Europe and not US where constitution limits what police can and cannot do, they will install mobile radar somewhere and just snap a photo of you. In Bosnia they have numerous mobile radars and they send data to police HQ where it is processed, so those who installed radar do not have anything to do with your ticket. But, on HWY (same as auto bahn) they will give you huge leeway, up to 100-110mph. I cannot remember when was the last time I had to keep my speed below 100mph, unless I am in Austria or Switzerland.
Last year my brother needed my Land Crusier, so I got one of his cars that his workers use, FIAT 500, the long version, 1.4 naturally aspirated. That thing is going to maintain 115mph all day with no sweat.
It is cultural thing, because that kind of driving is cultural thing, it translates to how engines are built, what requirements they have etc. When was the last time you drove European car with undersized brakes?
edyvw...
Ok, we'll agree to disagree on that topic and since your observation is firsthand, and mine is reliant on my cousin who works for AirBus and lives between Spain and Germany, i will concede other's should take your opinion more seriously, but, your point on the Golf II GTi is very true, i was one of those looking to eek out every ounce of power from both, my 8v and 16v GTi's back then.
Listen, there is no doubt things in Europe are not as what they used to be. Germany is outlier, but traffic makes things snarl during the day in Western part, Eastern part not so much. Still, it is faster than here, by large margin.
Places where people should be super careful are Austria and Switzerland, they are going after speeders and since this is Europe and not US where constitution limits what police can and cannot do, they will install mobile radar somewhere and just snap a photo of you. In Bosnia they have numerous mobile radars and they send data to police HQ where it is processed, so those who installed radar do not have anything to do with your ticket. But, on HWY (same as auto bahn) they will give you huge leeway, up to 100-110mph. I cannot remember when was the last time I had to keep my speed below 100mph, unless I am in Austria or Switzerland.
Last year my brother needed my Land Crusier, so I got one of his cars that his workers use, FIAT 500, the long version, 1.4 naturally aspirated. That thing is going to maintain 115mph all day with no sweat.
It is cultural thing, because that kind of driving is cultural thing, it translates to how engines are built, what requirements they have etc. When was the last time you drove European car with undersized brakes?
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Originally Posted by UG_Passat
The CAFE requirement makes sense on the regular Golf, as for 2019, it gets the 1.4L engine, instead of the 1.8L
2019 1.4TSI:
Tiptronic: 29/37/32
5MT: 29/37/32
2018 1.8TSI:
Tiptronic: 24/33/28
5MT: 25/34/29
The Golf Sportwagen S 4Motion and Golf Alltrack both get the 1.8 (and DSG) for 2019.
The CAFE requirement makes sense on the regular Golf, as for 2019, it gets the 1.4L engine, instead of the 1.8L
2019 1.4TSI:
Tiptronic: 29/37/32
5MT: 29/37/32
2018 1.8TSI:
Tiptronic: 24/33/28
5MT: 25/34/29
The Golf Sportwagen S 4Motion and Golf Alltrack both get the 1.8 (and DSG) for 2019.
Originally Posted by TiGeo
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
The CAFE requirement makes sense on the regular Golf, as for 2019, it gets the 1.4L engine, instead of the 1.8L
2019 1.4TSI:
Tiptronic: 29/37/32
5MT: 29/37/32
2018 1.8TSI:
Tiptronic: 24/33/28
5MT: 25/34/29
The Golf Sportwagen S 4Motion and Golf Alltrack both get the 1.8 (and DSG) for 2019.
That's why I said "Regular" Golf, which does not include the Sportwagen. If I wanted to include Sportwagen, then it would have been mentioned. Plus the 4Motion wagons did not have a engine/transmission change for 2019, unlike the FWD's.
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
The CAFE requirement makes sense on the regular Golf, as for 2019, it gets the 1.4L engine, instead of the 1.8L
2019 1.4TSI:
Tiptronic: 29/37/32
5MT: 29/37/32
2018 1.8TSI:
Tiptronic: 24/33/28
5MT: 25/34/29
The Golf Sportwagen S 4Motion and Golf Alltrack both get the 1.8 (and DSG) for 2019.
That's why I said "Regular" Golf, which does not include the Sportwagen. If I wanted to include Sportwagen, then it would have been mentioned. Plus the 4Motion wagons did not have a engine/transmission change for 2019, unlike the FWD's.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
The CAFE requirement makes sense on the regular Golf, as for 2019, it gets the 1.4L engine, instead of the 1.8L
2019 1.4TSI:
Tiptronic: 29/37/32
5MT: 29/37/32
2018 1.8TSI:
Tiptronic: 24/33/28
5MT: 25/34/29
CAFE aside, they need to remain competitive too. The Japanese especially are creating very fuel efficient engines. It's a hard sell when your car gets 15-20% worse mileage.
Japanese are running CVT's, and their customer base does not care if there is actual hair dryer under the hood.
I actually lol'd out loud
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
The CAFE requirement makes sense on the regular Golf, as for 2019, it gets the 1.4L engine, instead of the 1.8L
2019 1.4TSI:
Tiptronic: 29/37/32
5MT: 29/37/32
2018 1.8TSI:
Tiptronic: 24/33/28
5MT: 25/34/29
CAFE aside, they need to remain competitive too. The Japanese especially are creating very fuel efficient engines. It's a hard sell when your car gets 15-20% worse mileage.
Japanese are running CVT's, and their customer base does not care if there is actual hair dryer under the hood.
I actually lol'd out loud
I have lived all my life here in Vancouver and normal highway speed limit is between 55 and 65 mph depending on where you are. People might drive more like 70-75, but that's about it. Now I am not from Europe or anything but I have spent six weeks out of the last five years driving all over Croatia/Slovenia/Italy/Switzerland. Normal speed limit in most areas on highway is 80 mph which is faster than people drive here even above the limit. Then in Italy especially people going 100+ is very common.
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
The CAFE requirement makes sense on the regular Golf, as for 2019, it gets the 1.4L engine, instead of the 1.8L
2019 1.4TSI:
Tiptronic: 29/37/32
5MT: 29/37/32
2018 1.8TSI:
Tiptronic: 24/33/28
5MT: 25/34/29
CAFE aside, they need to remain competitive too. The Japanese especially are creating very fuel efficient engines. It's a hard sell when your car gets 15-20% worse mileage.
Japanese are running CVT's, and their customer base does not care if there is actual hair dryer under the hood.
I actually lol'd out loud
True, most of my colleagues here driver Subaru's, Toyota's, Acura's. Ask them what is under the hood would result in look like you asked them to translate pamphlet that was written by Mao Ce Tung.
That is why Subaru can put CVT and no one cares, or Acura 10 speed automatic that changed 6 speeds while you making turn on green, and no one cares, etc.
However, based on my observation between my Toyota Sienna that has some 4,700lbs, and BMW X5 35i that has some 5,000lbs, BMW was more frugal. My previous BMW X5, 35d, was beating Toyota by 5-6mpg in city, though it was diesel, but some 500-600lbs more, and much more aggressive driving.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
The CAFE requirement makes sense on the regular Golf, as for 2019, it gets the 1.4L engine, instead of the 1.8L
2019 1.4TSI:
Tiptronic: 29/37/32
5MT: 29/37/32
2018 1.8TSI:
Tiptronic: 24/33/28
5MT: 25/34/29
CAFE aside, they need to remain competitive too. The Japanese especially are creating very fuel efficient engines. It's a hard sell when your car gets 15-20% worse mileage.
Japanese are running CVT's, and their customer base does not care if there is actual hair dryer under the hood.
I actually lol'd out loud
True, most of my colleagues here driver Subaru's, Toyota's, Acura's. Ask them what is under the hood would result in look like you asked them to translate pamphlet that was written by Mao Ce Tung.
That is why Subaru can put CVT and no one cares, or Acura 10 speed automatic that changed 6 speeds while you making turn on green, and no one cares, etc.
However, based on my observation between my Toyota Sienna that has some 4,700lbs, and BMW X5 35i that has some 5,000lbs, BMW was more frugal. My previous BMW X5, 35d, was beating Toyota by 5-6mpg in city, though it was diesel, but some 500-600lbs more, and much more aggressive driving.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Only problem with your thinking is that EA888 is built around heavy oils, and that they are STILL running on VW504.00/507.00 STRICTLY in Europe. Only reason why VW508.00/509.00 is recommended in US is CAFE.
If I was buying brand new VW with that oil in, I would tell them right there in dealership to switch to VW504.00/507.00 or VW502.00 before I take out car.
Couldn't agree more. After seeing this spec change from VW I feel blessed I bought my GTI in 2018. No chance I would run a 0W20 in this motor.
I've been running Redline 5W40 year round since the first oil change at 1K miles. NOACK of 6 and HTHS of 4.4. I'm currently at 26K miles and average 38-41mpg on my 60 mile round trip to and from work. 85% highway driving. Best mileage I've seen on the screen during a slow crawl home one day was 44.2 mpg. I could give two craps about the extra 4% I could gain with 508. I drive hard and will be going Stage II this fall. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Only problem with your thinking is that EA888 is built around heavy oils, and that they are STILL running on VW504.00/507.00 STRICTLY in Europe. Only reason why VW508.00/509.00 is recommended in US is CAFE.
If I was buying brand new VW with that oil in, I would tell them right there in dealership to switch to VW504.00/507.00 or VW502.00 before I take out car.
Couldn't agree more. After seeing this spec change from VW I feel blessed I bought my GTI in 2018. No chance I would run a 0W20 in this motor.
I've been running Redline 5W40 year round since the first oil change at 1K miles. NOACK of 6 and HTHS of 4.4. I'm currently at 26K miles and average 38-41mpg on my 60 mile round trip to and from work. 85% highway driving. Best mileage I've seen on the screen during a slow crawl home one day was 44.2 mpg. I could give two craps about the extra 4% I could gain with 508. I drive hard and will be going Stage II this fall. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
In case anyone wonders, here's the link to the SDS for the Castrol Professional FE 0w20
https://msdspds.castrol.com/ussds/amersdsf.nsf/Files/3F3D3C28BDD044758025840100527EAF/$File/2482909.pdf
Group III/IV oil
https://msdspds.castrol.com/ussds/amersdsf.nsf/Files/3F3D3C28BDD044758025840100527EAF/$File/2482909.pdf
Group III/IV oil
Originally Posted by edyvw
When was the last time you drove European car with undersized brakes?
Off topic, but funny you mention this.
As much as I love American cars, after driving a lot of VW's when I lived in the UK, that has forever changed my perception on braking. As a result, DOT 5.1 fluid changed every 6 months, braided lines and EBC GG rated pads are a favorite of mine, if not a caliper/disc upgrade. Money extremely well spent.
If I don't "feel" grabby brakes, it freaks me out, particularly on Japanese applications.
When was the last time you drove European car with undersized brakes?
Off topic, but funny you mention this.
As much as I love American cars, after driving a lot of VW's when I lived in the UK, that has forever changed my perception on braking. As a result, DOT 5.1 fluid changed every 6 months, braided lines and EBC GG rated pads are a favorite of mine, if not a caliper/disc upgrade. Money extremely well spent.
If I don't "feel" grabby brakes, it freaks me out, particularly on Japanese applications.
Originally Posted by Falcon_LS
Originally Posted by edyvw
When was the last time you drove European car with undersized brakes?
Off topic, but funny you mention this.
As much as I love American cars, after driving a lot of VW's when I lived in the UK, that has forever changed my perception on braking. As a result, DOT 5.1 fluid changed every 6 months, braided lines and EBC GG rated pads are a favorite of mine, if not a caliper/disc upgrade. Money extremely well spent.
If I don't "feel" grabby brakes, it freaks me out, particularly on Japanese applications.
That is why I am running EBC on Toyota and ATE brake fluid.
Originally Posted by edyvw
When was the last time you drove European car with undersized brakes?
Off topic, but funny you mention this.
As much as I love American cars, after driving a lot of VW's when I lived in the UK, that has forever changed my perception on braking. As a result, DOT 5.1 fluid changed every 6 months, braided lines and EBC GG rated pads are a favorite of mine, if not a caliper/disc upgrade. Money extremely well spent.
If I don't "feel" grabby brakes, it freaks me out, particularly on Japanese applications.
That is why I am running EBC on Toyota and ATE brake fluid.
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
The CAFE requirement makes sense on the regular Golf, as for 2019, it gets the 1.4L engine, instead of the 1.8L
2019 1.4TSI:
Tiptronic: 29/37/32
5MT: 29/37/32
2018 1.8TSI:
Tiptronic: 24/33/28
5MT: 25/34/29
CAFE aside, they need to remain competitive too. The Japanese especially are creating very fuel efficient engines. It's a hard sell when your car gets 15-20% worse mileage.
Japanese are running CVT's, and their customer base does not care if there is actual hair dryer under the hood.
I actually lol'd out loud
+1, Qualifies as the funniest comment of the week.
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
Originally Posted by UG_Passat
The CAFE requirement makes sense on the regular Golf, as for 2019, it gets the 1.4L engine, instead of the 1.8L
2019 1.4TSI:
Tiptronic: 29/37/32
5MT: 29/37/32
2018 1.8TSI:
Tiptronic: 24/33/28
5MT: 25/34/29
CAFE aside, they need to remain competitive too. The Japanese especially are creating very fuel efficient engines. It's a hard sell when your car gets 15-20% worse mileage.
Japanese are running CVT's, and their customer base does not care if there is actual hair dryer under the hood.
I actually lol'd out loud
+1, Qualifies as the funniest comment of the week.
Originally Posted by Falcon_LS
Off topic, but funny you mention this.
As much as I love American cars, after driving a lot of VW's when I lived in the UK, that has forever changed my perception on braking. As a result, DOT 5.1 fluid changed every 6 months, braided lines and EBC GG rated pads are a favorite of mine, if not a caliper/disc upgrade. Money extremely well spent.
If I don't "feel" grabby brakes, it freaks me out, particularly on Japanese applications.
Back in August 1995 I had sold my M6 and my Club Sport wouldn't be delivered until November. I had a chance to attend an HPDE and the only remotely suitable car in my garage was a 1985 Thunderbird Turbo with a manual transmission. I decided to check out the brakes on a deserted bypass that was under construction. The first stop from 80 mph was drama free. During the second stop from 80 the pedal went to the floor- in spite of fresh brake fluid and semi-metallic front pads. Contemporary Mustang 5.0 brakes were equally bad. At Putnam Park a friend's Mustang GT would use up all its brakes slowing for Turn 1(140 mph down to 80 mph).
About that same time I remember hearing a European automotive engineer say, "The difference between American and European drivers is: European drivers don't care if the brakes squeal, just as long as they stop the car; American drivers don't care if the brakes stop the car, just as long as they don't squeal."
Off topic, but funny you mention this.
As much as I love American cars, after driving a lot of VW's when I lived in the UK, that has forever changed my perception on braking. As a result, DOT 5.1 fluid changed every 6 months, braided lines and EBC GG rated pads are a favorite of mine, if not a caliper/disc upgrade. Money extremely well spent.
If I don't "feel" grabby brakes, it freaks me out, particularly on Japanese applications.
Back in August 1995 I had sold my M6 and my Club Sport wouldn't be delivered until November. I had a chance to attend an HPDE and the only remotely suitable car in my garage was a 1985 Thunderbird Turbo with a manual transmission. I decided to check out the brakes on a deserted bypass that was under construction. The first stop from 80 mph was drama free. During the second stop from 80 the pedal went to the floor- in spite of fresh brake fluid and semi-metallic front pads. Contemporary Mustang 5.0 brakes were equally bad. At Putnam Park a friend's Mustang GT would use up all its brakes slowing for Turn 1(140 mph down to 80 mph).
About that same time I remember hearing a European automotive engineer say, "The difference between American and European drivers is: European drivers don't care if the brakes squeal, just as long as they stop the car; American drivers don't care if the brakes stop the car, just as long as they don't squeal."
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