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ST9688 oil filter on motorcycle? #5111601 05/21/19 05:56 PM
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I wouldn't seek them out, but has anyone determined if the new SuperTech ST9688 oil filters actually fit and work on motorcycles as well as the old ST7317 filters many used to recommend? I understand the ST9688 is actually different dimensions from the old ST7317. I keep a spreadsheet of available filters that fit my vehicles in case I can't find what I am looking for and need to grab another filter in a pinch. For my motorcycle I would first go for a FRAM XG7317 or maybe a Mobile 1 M1-110.

Re: ST9688 oil filter on motorcycle? [Re: AuthorEditor] #5111665 05/21/19 07:09 PM
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The ST9688 seems a touch smaller than the Fram 9688 size, and is almost identical to the Fram 3593a size, which I have had on my VT1100.

I see no reason why it would not work, but would depend on the bike.

For $3, why not try it out?


2018 Santa Fe: PP 10W-30/OEM/5k
2018 Soul: Mobil Super 5W-20/OEM/5k
2012 xB: M1 EP 0W-20/CQ Blue/5k
2002 F150: Magnatec 5W-20/Bosch D+/1yr
1994 VT1100: Peak 15W-40/Bosch D+/1yr
Re: ST9688 oil filter on motorcycle? [Re: AuthorEditor] #5112004 05/22/19 06:47 AM
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I'm beginning to wonder if using these slightly larger filters is worth it. If the tiny 6607 is good enough for all those Honda cars isn't it good enough for my puny 500cc engine with OCIs of only 3-4,000 miles? Not sure if I am gaining anything other than the capability of putting a tiny bit more oil in at every change. My engine takes 3.2 quarts, which is an annoying amount, but it would be exactly 3 liters. If only we used the metric system!

Last edited by AuthorEditor; 05/22/19 06:47 AM.
Re: ST9688 oil filter on motorcycle? [Re: AuthorEditor] #5112107 05/22/19 08:32 AM
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Re: ST9688 oil filter on motorcycle? [Re: AuthorEditor] #5112139 05/22/19 09:03 AM
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Thanks for the link to the cut open. Looks pretty solid, though I am not sure about the ecore center tube. Strange looking sealing ring. Wide with a raised section towards the middle. Have you used one on any vehicle? Have any idea if the ST6607 uses the same construction?

Re: ST9688 oil filter on motorcycle? [Re: AuthorEditor] #5112223 05/22/19 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by AuthorEditor
Thanks for the link to the cut open. Looks pretty solid, though I am not sure about the ecore center tube. Strange looking sealing ring. Wide with a raised section towards the middle. Have you used one on any vehicle? Have any idea if the ST6607 uses the same construction?

I believe the ST6607 is a combo valve design (not 100%, I know I looked at several ST filters the other day and I think the ST6607 had it, I know the old Wix made one was).

There is still a lot of hate on the e-core design, and while it had it's issues when it first came in in the early 2000's (wide spacing, brittle material) that is no longer an issue.
the plastic center is used in 99% of the cartridge filters made today with no widespread issues, and in the canister filters I have not seen any issues with them in well over a decade.


2018 Santa Fe: PP 10W-30/OEM/5k
2018 Soul: Mobil Super 5W-20/OEM/5k
2012 xB: M1 EP 0W-20/CQ Blue/5k
2002 F150: Magnatec 5W-20/Bosch D+/1yr
1994 VT1100: Peak 15W-40/Bosch D+/1yr
Re: ST9688 oil filter on motorcycle? [Re: AuthorEditor] #5112334 05/22/19 12:00 PM
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The combo valve would worry me more than the ecore design. In fact, I would probably rule out getting any combo valve filters.

Re: ST9688 oil filter on motorcycle? [Re: AuthorEditor] #5112726 05/22/19 06:52 PM
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The filter/design has been used probably on millions of vehicles, it will function as it is designed just fine.

My thought, does a “car” oil filter have the proper bypass pressure relief threshold vs a motorcycle filter? I have read about that potential with regard to spin-on oil filter adapters many guys have put on bikes that originally used cartridge filters. Very different pressure bypass thresholds have been documented in those cases. Also guys using car spin on filters instead of the motorcycle specific spin-on have documented the same thing.

Re: ST9688 oil filter on motorcycle? [Re: AuthorEditor] #5112749 05/22/19 07:13 PM
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Bypass pressure settings is related to particular filter size and design too, but the car ones I have looked at are in the same pressure range as motorcycle filters. Also, I don't think these bypass settings are very precise. Bypass events are rare. They are caused by filthy filters, too thick oil, cold starts, and other stuff like that. I try to use an appropriate oil for the temperature, change it at reasonable intervals, change the filters before they are clogged, etc. When I start up on a cold morning I don't rev the engine much until it is warmed up. Once the oil is hot and flowing I doubt the bypass ever comes into play. Lots and lots of people use these standard car filters on motorcycles, including me. I have an old PureOne 14610 on there right now, from back in the day when I purchased a stash of filters. By the way, I have never seen a bad PureOne after cut opens, though I do believe the reports we have seen here. Just never experienced it myself.

Re: ST9688 oil filter on motorcycle? [Re: Bonz] #5112774 05/22/19 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bonz
The filter/design has been used probably on millions of vehicles, it will function as it is designed just fine.

My thought, does a “car” oil filter have the proper bypass pressure relief threshold vs a motorcycle filter? I have read about that potential with regard to spin-on oil filter adapters many guys have put on bikes that originally used cartridge filters. Very different pressure bypass thresholds have been documented in those cases. Also guys using car spin on filters instead of the motorcycle specific spin-on have documented the same thing.


Fram has a motorcycle specific PH6017a that has been their only application for most Honda bikes for a long time.
It appears identical to the PH6607 filter in every way except paint color.
Bypass is 13 PSI on the 6607, 9-15 on the 6017a.
The 6607 has been used by many as a cheaper replacement to the 6017a. Same for the 7317 size filter, same bypass as te 6607.
The 9688 also has a 9-15 PSI listed on Fram's site.
Now this is Fram, so not sure what the exact specs are for the Champ made ST filters, but I am sure they are similar.

Incidentally, Fram recently added the XG6607 as a recommended filter for most Honda bikes.

I have changed the filter on my bike 4 times, and have used "car" filters each time.
ST6607 (older Wix made one), Fram TG3593a, Purolator PSL 14610, and currently a Bosch D+ 3323. I have several more of the TG3593 that will get me through the next 2 years or so.
Only reason I will not use the current ST filters is they have nitril ADV, and for bikes I like silicone. Probably makes no difference, but makes me feel better.


2018 Santa Fe: PP 10W-30/OEM/5k
2018 Soul: Mobil Super 5W-20/OEM/5k
2012 xB: M1 EP 0W-20/CQ Blue/5k
2002 F150: Magnatec 5W-20/Bosch D+/1yr
1994 VT1100: Peak 15W-40/Bosch D+/1yr
Re: ST9688 oil filter on motorcycle? [Re: AuthorEditor] #5112836 05/22/19 08:28 PM
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-Absolutely agree, the bypass is much to do about nothing in terms of needing to be used. Since it was the discussion here, I wanted to at least throw in some conversation that had been checked out and studied.

-As you said about the Honda and Fram filters, they have been checked out and the information is known. That’s useful info, thanks for sharing! I’m saying when it’s simply conjecture and there’s not empirical information it is hard to have a good discussion.

Can anyone share the last time, and how long ago it was, they know of a filter going to bypass (and thus failing, otherwise how would it be known) on a passenger car or motorcycle. I’d be interested.

Re: ST9688 oil filter on motorcycle? [Re: Bonz] #5112861 05/22/19 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Bonz
...

Can anyone share the last time, and how long ago it was, they know of a filter going to bypass (and thus failing, otherwise how would it be known) on a passenger car or motorcycle. I’d be interested.

Aside from lab testing or possibly an intensive and expensive in vehicle set up, you can't.


2018 Santa Fe: PP 10W-30/OEM/5k
2018 Soul: Mobil Super 5W-20/OEM/5k
2012 xB: M1 EP 0W-20/CQ Blue/5k
2002 F150: Magnatec 5W-20/Bosch D+/1yr
1994 VT1100: Peak 15W-40/Bosch D+/1yr
Re: ST9688 oil filter on motorcycle? [Re: blupupher] #5112938 05/22/19 10:30 PM
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With that said, what is the rationale based on with respect to the combo valve and ruling out using a filter with a combo valve?

Re: ST9688 oil filter on motorcycle? [Re: AuthorEditor] #5112946 05/22/19 10:37 PM
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I don't get warm fuzzies using a combo valve.
I have seen a few animations of how they work (at least the Wix one), and while it looks like it works, I just personally don't like it.

Wix and Champ have slightly different designs, but they both rely on the flexibility of the combo valve to be an ADV as well as the bypass function, 2 totally separate functions in one part.
Having taken a few of them apart, I just would rather not use one. Only reason I ran the ST6607 on the bike was it was a short 500 mile cleansing run since the bike was new to me.

I know Motorking did not say good things about the Wix design combo valve, and this was as a Fram spokesman that has done testing on them. I never heard him say anything bad about any other Wix product, just the filters with combo valves.


2018 Santa Fe: PP 10W-30/OEM/5k
2018 Soul: Mobil Super 5W-20/OEM/5k
2012 xB: M1 EP 0W-20/CQ Blue/5k
2002 F150: Magnatec 5W-20/Bosch D+/1yr
1994 VT1100: Peak 15W-40/Bosch D+/1yr
Re: ST9688 oil filter on motorcycle? [Re: AuthorEditor] #5113344 05/23/19 10:41 AM
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Quote
I don't get warm fuzzies using a combo valve.

Since they are made out of nitrile or some flexible material it seems like the bypass setting would vary depending on how hot the oil is, and if the vehicle had been sitting overnight in the freezing cold wouldn't it make sense the valve part would be a lot stiffer? This seems to indicate to me that it is going to have a lower bypass pressure when hot, and a higher pressure when cold, which is the opposite to what you would want. The fact that no high-end filters I know of use the design is another clue that filter companies do not consider the combo valve a premium design.

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