Canister filter observations.

[demarpaint]

Did you oil the O-Ring on the nipple at the bottom of the filter before installing it? I think they bind w/o lube and are often over tightened during installation.

That grit at the lowest level of the housing above and around where the nipple resides might get back into the engine. I would clean the entire base of the filter housing out.

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted by jeepman3071
Originally Posted by Garak
Originally Posted by Sayjac
As for topic cartridge filter, as noted this looks to be an Ecotec engine cartridge filter application. If one has read this board, ecotec cartridge applications tend to show some squished and/or twisted appearance post use. This one doesn't look too bad.


Perhaps each "sat on" filter needs to be mailed to the head of engineering of the OEM in question.


This has to do with aftermarket manufacturer specs. OEM filters are the best bet for canister applications. The same thing happens on BMWs if you use a Mobil 1, Fram, or a few other brands. The Ford 6.0L diesel is especially bad about this. Using the wrong filter has caused engine melt downs.


Why not …? Being I have used only OEM for around 18 filter changes with zero issues … that's a good starting point. I have always viewed things as a former machinist … and the end to end dimension must be close tolerance on this assembly … Spin on …? Ran many longer versions … Various brands …

 

[WellOiled]

Originally Posted by Garak
Originally Posted by Sayjac
As for topic cartridge filter, as noted this looks to be an Ecotec engine cartridge filter application. If one has read this board, ecotec cartridge applications tend to show some squished and/or twisted appearance post use. This one doesn't look too bad.

I'm really not sure why some OEMs and filter manufacturers are having issues with this. My god daughter's Benz has a cartridge filter, and I've never seen the slightest pleat wave. So many other ones we've seen here routinely look like someone sat on them. Either some OEMs should stick to ordinary spin ons or some filter manufacturers need to go back to the drawing board.

Perhaps each "sat on" filter needs to be mailed to the head of engineering of the OEM in question.

Garak, this seems to be a common theme for some cartridge filter applications.

To succeed, the OEM must communicate clear specifications to the filter manufacturer and the filter manufacturer must meet the specifications.

I like your plan to start with the head of engineering of the OEM in question.

 

[4WD]

Why ? Read my lips … no issues using 100% OEM

 

[WellOiled]

The aftermarket replacements should also work. That is why!!!

 

[4WD]

So what … they are not and OEM are cheap

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted by Sayjac
I believe the title should read "cartridge" filter observations, as the filter shown is the cartridge that goes in the housing or canister. Canister or spin on type synonymous. ...
Correct! That incorrect terminology was needlessly confusing.

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted by 4WD
... I have always viewed things as a former machinist … and the end to end dimension must be close tolerance on this assembly …
I'm not sure about the particular example shown in this thread, but that's not true of all cartridges. Some (including mine) use a spring to apply sealing force on the ends, and the travel of the spring-loaded part is ample to cover even lenient tolerances on the filter length. The filter would be crushed only if it is not strong enough to withstand the spring force (which is about 7 pounds in my Toyota example), no matter how badly the cap is overtightened.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by 4WD
... I have always viewed things as a former machinist … and the end to end dimension must be close tolerance on this assembly …
I'm not sure about the particular example shown in this thread, but that's not true of all cartridges. Some (including mine) use a spring to apply sealing force on the ends, and the travel of the spring-loaded part is ample to cover even lenient tolerances on the filter length. The filter would be crushed only if it is not strong enough to withstand the spring force (which is about 7 pounds in my Toyota example), no matter how badly the cap is overtightened.


I'm wondering if the examples seen where there is crushing and twisting of the cartridge, that those setups don't use a spring in the filter cap and therefore cause way more compression and twisting forces on the cartridge when the cap is tightened, especially if the filter is a bit longer than it should be.

 

[ChrisD46]

Originally Posted by dwendt44
On some GM cartridges you put the filter into the cap/cover first then install on engine.

No experience, just what I've read.



My 2¢

*This is how Hyundai does their canister filters (inserting them into the end cap first over a frame ) ... I have used Fram Ultra canister filters in the Hyundai with good results and no buckling .

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted by CR94
Originally Posted by Sayjac
I believe the title should read "cartridge" filter observations, as the filter shown is the cartridge that goes in the housing or canister. Canister or spin on type synonymous. ...
Correct! That incorrect terminology was needlessly confusing.

Pardon my lack of experience. I'm a dinosaur spin on guy. I tried to change it but it was too late.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted by 4WD
Why ? Read my lips … no issues using 100% OEM

As WellOiled mentions, the aftermarket ones should work. This isn't that hard. Of course, when we have manufacturers that cannot centre a centre tube, cannot make media that's less brittle than a 5 day old cookie, install an ADBV correctly, or form open louvers, this isn't a huge surprise. I guess when it happens, one has to stick with OEM. We don't buy spin on filters that annoy us, so you're absolutely right - buy what you know works.

Honestly, when one buys a Benz, why can Mahle, Mann, Hengst, Knecht, and Bosch all sell filters that fit perfectly? I realize they all are or have been OE suppliers at one time or another, but really?

Here's your million dollar idea. Bring back spin on conversion kits.

 

[LeakySeals]

I put the same filter back in to check the fit. (Fram CH9018). I tightened to what it said on the top of the cartridge housing (25nm). I can feel some resistance towards the end but I assume it's the gasket.

Some pics of the two cartridge filters. The height of the new one appears to be the same as the old twisted. Would have expected it to be shorter. I tried untwisting it. It's tight not flexible at all. So maybe the media has just bent somehow.

Sorry for the blurry photo. Looks like there has been changes old vs new. Different color gaskets and the molding is different in the center.

 

[Garak]

For reference, with her Benz, it basically gets tightened to the stops. For a housing that is supposed to contain something that can be crushed but should not be crushed, that seems eminently sensible, particularly if that which is supposed to fit inside actually fits correctly inside.

 

[Sayjac]

Here's a couple links to some good looking post use ecotec cartridge anecdotes, not oem either.

Parts Plus 3244

Napa Pro Select 27082

I would note the same NPS application was subsequently used again and didn't turn out as well. There does seem to be some randomness to the results.

 

[metroplex]

I have the GM Ecotec 2.0L GTDI LNF engine (stock 260 hp) and always wondered why some of the engine casting resembled styrofoam, until I learned about lost-foam casting.

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted by Sayjac
There does seem to be some randomness to the results.


It seems the simplest explanation would be the same as why some spin-on can filter pleats get wavy......the presence of moisture. Not everyone has it. Those that do get wavy pleats (talking spin-in can filters) and those that don't get straight pleats. These cartridge filters will still be prone to this issue.