Schaeffer's Synthetic 5W-20 and 5W-30 API SN Plus
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Originally Posted by JustN89
Looks like Schaeffer's full synthetic 5W-20 and 5W-30 now join their 0W-20 as being API SN Plus certified.
ARTICLE
The "good stuff' 7000 is not SN Plus / Dexos.
Just seems odd that the lower number 7000 Series is PAO derived and the higher number 9000 Series is full synthetic. To me, the numbering system Schaeffer uses is backwards. The higher number should be the Cats Meow.
Looks like Schaeffer's full synthetic 5W-20 and 5W-30 now join their 0W-20 as being API SN Plus certified.
ARTICLE
The "good stuff' 7000 is not SN Plus / Dexos.
Just seems odd that the lower number 7000 Series is PAO derived and the higher number 9000 Series is full synthetic. To me, the numbering system Schaeffer uses is backwards. The higher number should be the Cats Meow.
4WD
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0w20 is a fair amount higher Noack … less PAO than M1EP … and it costs what ?
Originally Posted by 4WD
0w20 is a fair amount higher Noack … less PAO than M1EP … and it costs what ?
That, and Schaeffer is not really dexos1, even though they say they are on some. What's up with the dishonesty?
Also, no Schaeffer oil is SN+ according to the API ( https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsSearch ). Are we to just trust them?
0w20 is a fair amount higher Noack … less PAO than M1EP … and it costs what ?
That, and Schaeffer is not really dexos1, even though they say they are on some. What's up with the dishonesty?
Also, no Schaeffer oil is SN+ according to the API ( https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsSearch ). Are we to just trust them?
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
That, and Schaeffer is not really dexos1, even though they say they are on some. What's up with the dishonesty?
Also, no Schaeffer oil is SN+ according to the API ( https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsSearch ). Are we to just trust them?
I get so tired of these unethical companies that obfuscate approvals and certs on their data sheets and marketing materials, and Schaeffer's is a particularly egregious abuser.
That, and Schaeffer is not really dexos1, even though they say they are on some. What's up with the dishonesty?
Also, no Schaeffer oil is SN+ according to the API ( https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsSearch ). Are we to just trust them?
I get so tired of these unethical companies that obfuscate approvals and certs on their data sheets and marketing materials, and Schaeffer's is a particularly egregious abuser.
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
That, and Schaeffer is not really dexos1, even though they say they are on some. What's up with the dishonesty?
Also, no Schaeffer oil is SN+ according to the API ( https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsSearch ). Are we to just trust them?
I get so tired of these unethical companies that obfuscate on their data sheets. This is a particularly egregious example.
Its an ethics problem. Like Amsoil, I "feel" their oils may be about as good as they say. Yet without a genuine cert process in place, it comes down to trust. Personally, I often give Amsoil a pass, and if there are honest adults in charge at Schaeffer, then maybe we should just say their Penetro and high moly formulas are plenty good. I don't know.
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
That, and Schaeffer is not really dexos1, even though they say they are on some. What's up with the dishonesty?
Also, no Schaeffer oil is SN+ according to the API ( https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsSearch ). Are we to just trust them?
I get so tired of these unethical companies that obfuscate on their data sheets. This is a particularly egregious example.
Its an ethics problem. Like Amsoil, I "feel" their oils may be about as good as they say. Yet without a genuine cert process in place, it comes down to trust. Personally, I often give Amsoil a pass, and if there are honest adults in charge at Schaeffer, then maybe we should just say their Penetro and high moly formulas are plenty good. I don't know.
Agree it's an ethics issue and how much you want to trust the blender. Look at Redline and how they claimed API SM/SN for years and we all know that is not true with their 1,200 ppm of ZDP. Amsoil finally states their SS line contains SA levels above dexos limits.
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by 4WD
0w20 is a fair amount higher Noack … less PAO than M1EP … and it costs what ?
That, and Schaeffer is not really dexos1, even though they say they are on some. What's up with the dishonesty?
Also, no Schaeffer oil is SN+ according to the API ( https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsSearch ). Are we to just trust them?
Except that they are API certified.
https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsResultsDetail?accountId=-1&companyId=10248
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
That, and Schaeffer is not really dexos1, even though they say they are on some. What's up with the dishonesty?
Also, no Schaeffer oil is SN+ according to the API ( https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsSearch ). Are we to just trust them?
I get so tired of these unethical companies that obfuscate approvals and certs on their data sheets and marketing materials, and Schaeffer's is a particularly egregious abuser.
See above and below.
Originally Posted by 4WD
0w20 is a fair amount higher Noack … less PAO than M1EP … and it costs what ?
That, and Schaeffer is not really dexos1, even though they say they are on some. What's up with the dishonesty?
Also, no Schaeffer oil is SN+ according to the API ( https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsSearch ). Are we to just trust them?
Except that they are API certified.
https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsResultsDetail?accountId=-1&companyId=10248
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
That, and Schaeffer is not really dexos1, even though they say they are on some. What's up with the dishonesty?
Also, no Schaeffer oil is SN+ according to the API ( https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsSearch ). Are we to just trust them?
I get so tired of these unethical companies that obfuscate approvals and certs on their data sheets and marketing materials, and Schaeffer's is a particularly egregious abuser.
See above and below.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
At least the big boys tend to have a business partner who builds motors … Mobil with GM Dexos or makes oil for Toyota, then Pennzoil with FCA, several like those and Castrol with the German makes etc …
Good chance from those relationships you know they stay on top of LSPI or turbo issues …
But thinking I'd rather put a Dex 1.2 in a Ford … than deal with an oil supplier who can't be bothered with any approvals
Good chance from those relationships you know they stay on top of LSPI or turbo issues …
But thinking I'd rather put a Dex 1.2 in a Ford … than deal with an oil supplier who can't be bothered with any approvals
Originally Posted by JustN89
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
[, no Schaeffer oil is SN+ according to the API ( https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsSearch ). Are we to just trust them?
Except that they are API certified.
They have "SN", yes. This thread is about SN+, which requires https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2018-01-1808/ to be actually documented with the API on top of the old SN.
Similar to the dexos1 claim Schaeffer makes, its not genuine officially.
Maybe this will help explain: A dude says he can run a mile in 4 minutes. Then he says "I timed myself and nobody saw it or verified it." So then it comes down to his honesty.
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
[, no Schaeffer oil is SN+ according to the API ( https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsSearch ). Are we to just trust them?
Except that they are API certified.
They have "SN", yes. This thread is about SN+, which requires https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2018-01-1808/ to be actually documented with the API on top of the old SN.
Similar to the dexos1 claim Schaeffer makes, its not genuine officially.
Maybe this will help explain: A dude says he can run a mile in 4 minutes. Then he says "I timed myself and nobody saw it or verified it." So then it comes down to his honesty.
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by JustN89
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
[, no Schaeffer oil is SN+ according to the API ( https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsSearch ). Are we to just trust them?
Except that they are API certified.
They have "SN", yes. This thread is about SN+, which requires https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2018-01-1808/ to be actually documented with the API on top of the old SN.
Similar to the dexos1 claim Schaeffer makes, its not genuine officially.
Maybe this will help explain: A dude says he can run a mile in 4 minutes. Then he says "I timed myself and nobody saw it or verified it." So then it comes down to his honesty.
I think you're still missing it. Here's where SN+ is listed. For comparison, here's Mobil 1 on the API website (Page 6- sorry, won't link directly to the page)- SN+ listed in the same place under Performance Designation.
Originally Posted by JustN89
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
[, no Schaeffer oil is SN+ according to the API ( https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsSearch ). Are we to just trust them?
Except that they are API certified.
They have "SN", yes. This thread is about SN+, which requires https://www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/2018-01-1808/ to be actually documented with the API on top of the old SN.
Similar to the dexos1 claim Schaeffer makes, its not genuine officially.
Maybe this will help explain: A dude says he can run a mile in 4 minutes. Then he says "I timed myself and nobody saw it or verified it." So then it comes down to his honesty.
I think you're still missing it. Here's where SN+ is listed. For comparison, here's Mobil 1 on the API website (Page 6- sorry, won't link directly to the page)- SN+ listed in the same place under Performance Designation.
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I'm using the Schaefers oils in two of our vehicles. I have trust in their products and I'm 99% sure I'll never post an oil related failure using their products.
Nit pick all you guys want, if your scared of using a product, simply move to the next.
Nit pick all you guys want, if your scared of using a product, simply move to the next.
The 9000 5w-30 looks pretty sweet.
HTHS 3.3
Noack 7.9%
SA .84
Just wish the cSt @100c was more specific (10-12)
But as others have mentioned, the do the benefits outweigh the price and effort to get your hands on some. If it was readily available on the shelf at Walmart I would run it a lot.
HTHS 3.3
Noack 7.9%
SA .84
Just wish the cSt @100c was more specific (10-12)
But as others have mentioned, the do the benefits outweigh the price and effort to get your hands on some. If it was readily available on the shelf at Walmart I would run it a lot.
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
That, and Schaeffer is not really dexos1, even though they say they are on some. What's up with the dishonesty?
Also, no Schaeffer oil is SN+ according to the API ( https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsSearch ). Are we to just trust them?
I get so tired of these unethical companies that obfuscate on their data sheets. This is a particularly egregious example.
Its an ethics problem. Like Amsoil, I "feel" their oils may be about as good as they say. Yet without a genuine cert process in place, it comes down to trust. Personally, I often give Amsoil a pass, and if there are honest adults in charge at Schaeffer, then maybe we should just say their Penetro and high moly formulas are plenty good. I don't know.
Well, if it's any comfort, PQIA has tested Schaeffer and found it to meet API SN performance requirements.
The lack of the official certification could be due to cost, or maybe one of their additives isn't considered kosher for the tests? They are, as far as I know, the only blender who uses antimony.
Personally I think the oil is fine, but it's not something I'm terribly interested in using myself given as there are plenty of other suitable oils for much less money.
Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
That, and Schaeffer is not really dexos1, even though they say they are on some. What's up with the dishonesty?
Also, no Schaeffer oil is SN+ according to the API ( https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsSearch ). Are we to just trust them?
I get so tired of these unethical companies that obfuscate on their data sheets. This is a particularly egregious example.
Its an ethics problem. Like Amsoil, I "feel" their oils may be about as good as they say. Yet without a genuine cert process in place, it comes down to trust. Personally, I often give Amsoil a pass, and if there are honest adults in charge at Schaeffer, then maybe we should just say their Penetro and high moly formulas are plenty good. I don't know.
Well, if it's any comfort, PQIA has tested Schaeffer and found it to meet API SN performance requirements.
The lack of the official certification could be due to cost, or maybe one of their additives isn't considered kosher for the tests? They are, as far as I know, the only blender who uses antimony.
Personally I think the oil is fine, but it's not something I'm terribly interested in using myself given as there are plenty of other suitable oils for much less money.
Last edited:
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Well, if it's any comfort, PQIA has tested Schaeffer and found it to meet API SN performance requirements.
No, actually PQIA only checks a small subset of what makes an oil SN. They are missing a ton of actual engine tests, only some elements and viscometrics are checked by PQIA.
Schaefffers has a lot of SN+ oils after all, as Justn89 (the Newman to my Seinfeld...) pointed out above. It's the dexos1 Gen2 approval they kinda claim that's not genuine.
I do agree that Schaeffers makes good oil though. I like the fact they go high on moly, and their reputation, like Amsoil, is very good.
You mentioned antimony. Not sure they use that anymore. There was a thread about that one time, not sure what the conclusion was anyway.
Well, if it's any comfort, PQIA has tested Schaeffer and found it to meet API SN performance requirements.
No, actually PQIA only checks a small subset of what makes an oil SN. They are missing a ton of actual engine tests, only some elements and viscometrics are checked by PQIA.
Schaefffers has a lot of SN+ oils after all, as Justn89 (the Newman to my Seinfeld...) pointed out above. It's the dexos1 Gen2 approval they kinda claim that's not genuine.
I do agree that Schaeffers makes good oil though. I like the fact they go high on moly, and their reputation, like Amsoil, is very good.
You mentioned antimony. Not sure they use that anymore. There was a thread about that one time, not sure what the conclusion was anyway.
They claim to D1G2 compliant nothing more. This is fine they don't want to play pay. Schaeffers has a very good reputation and has had it long before I can around.
Originally Posted by Brojo
The 9000 5w-30 looks pretty sweet. HTHS 3.3 Noack 7.9% SA .84
And it's base oil is about 1/3 PAO, not bad at all. High moly, penetro might be OK(?), I'm liking it. Company reputation is good.
The 3.3 value is great for anything needing 5w30 SN GF-5 dexos1 & suffering from fuel dilution or if you're towing or racing in hot weather. It has room to shrink with time or heat, and still be high enough (above 2.8 acceptable).
Only other oils I know of that equal or come close to that high in an SN-RC, GF-5 Xw-30 are:
Amsoil OE and also XL Full Synthetic 5w-30 HTHS 3.3
Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic (formerly synpower) 5w-30 at HTHS 3.2 ....
....and, not GF-5, there is Mobil Delvac 1 Advanced Fuel Economy (the API FA-4, SN one only) 5w-30 HTHS 3.2
You have to go to a 10w30 SN+ but non-GF-5 oil to get higher HTHS in the Xw30 type, 10w-30 Mobil1 High Mileage is HTHS 3.5 good summer oil
....or go to euro-spec 5w30 A3/B4 oils to get a common 3.5, not RC or GF-5 at all.
Must be all the moly in Schaeffers that gets it to pass the fuel economy Sequence VID tests with higher HTHS.
Most other xw30's are HTHS 3.0 or 3.1.
The 9000 5w-30 looks pretty sweet. HTHS 3.3 Noack 7.9% SA .84
And it's base oil is about 1/3 PAO, not bad at all. High moly, penetro might be OK(?), I'm liking it. Company reputation is good.
The 3.3 value is great for anything needing 5w30 SN GF-5 dexos1 & suffering from fuel dilution or if you're towing or racing in hot weather. It has room to shrink with time or heat, and still be high enough (above 2.8 acceptable).
Only other oils I know of that equal or come close to that high in an SN-RC, GF-5 Xw-30 are:
Amsoil OE and also XL Full Synthetic 5w-30 HTHS 3.3
Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic (formerly synpower) 5w-30 at HTHS 3.2 ....
....and, not GF-5, there is Mobil Delvac 1 Advanced Fuel Economy (the API FA-4, SN one only) 5w-30 HTHS 3.2
You have to go to a 10w30 SN+ but non-GF-5 oil to get higher HTHS in the Xw30 type, 10w-30 Mobil1 High Mileage is HTHS 3.5 good summer oil
....or go to euro-spec 5w30 A3/B4 oils to get a common 3.5, not RC or GF-5 at all.
Must be all the moly in Schaeffers that gets it to pass the fuel economy Sequence VID tests with higher HTHS.
Most other xw30's are HTHS 3.0 or 3.1.
And don't forget SuperTech 5w-30 Synthetic. HTHS = 3.2.
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