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Re: My sister is looking for a track day toy / weekend car [Re: ddombrowski] #5064410 04/04/19 05:44 PM
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I think a novice is better served by starting out in a relatively low horsepower car- the reason being that horsepower and an alphabet soup of safety nannies will cover up a multitude of driving sins. I learned a lot from driving my Club Sport because if you screwed up a corne it would cost you for the remainder of the lap. As an HPDE instructor I find that a surplus of horsepower and the electronic stability controls lead a student to think he/she is a much better driver than he/she actually is. I wish I could start all my students out in an E30 318is or an early Miata so that they could learn the fundamentals of performance driving without the distraction of a lot of power or the insulation from vehicle dynamics that plague all too many modern cars.


Mine:
2014 M235i
2009 Cooper Clubman
1999 Wrangler Sahara
1995 318ti Club Sport

Wife's:
2015 X1 xDrive28i M Sport


Son's
2009 328i

Buy what makes you smile...
Re: My sister is looking for a track day toy / weekend car [Re: ddombrowski] #5065329 04/05/19 03:20 PM
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dailydriver Offline
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'Momentum cars' do tend to force one to learn best lines/braking zones/trail braking/etc. much quicker than the 'nannyed' higher powered options. wink


2016 Ford Fiesta ST 17K miles
Ravenol REP 5W-30
Fram XG3600 filter
Ravenol MTF-2 in the IB6 transaxle
Re: My sister is looking for a track day toy / weekend car [Re: dailydriver] #5065433 04/05/19 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dailydriver
'Momentum cars' do tend to force one to learn best lines/braking zones/trail braking/etc. much quicker than the 'nannyed' higher powered options. wink

Most on BITOG dont' care about logic or reason.
coffee


06 Lexus IS350- Wife
88 BMW 325is- Mistress
Say "no" to Turbo!
Re: My sister is looking for a track day toy / weekend car [Re: dailydriver] #5065466 04/05/19 05:41 PM
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rooflessVW Offline
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Originally Posted by dailydriver
'Momentum cars' do tend to force one to learn best lines/braking zones/trail braking/etc. much quicker than the 'nannyed' higher powered options. wink

Yes, great for learning. Not so great when all you do is point-bys at every HPDE. What are you learning then?

By all means she should get some formal instruction.
Originally Posted by Lolvoguy
Originally Posted by dailydriver
'Momentum cars' do tend to force one to learn best lines/braking zones/trail braking/etc. much quicker than the 'nannyed' higher powered options. wink

Most on BITOG dont' care about logic or reason.
coffee

There is nothing logical or reasonable about buying some beater brick Volvo as a track-only toy.


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: My sister is looking for a track day toy / weekend car [Re: rooflessVW] #5065519 04/05/19 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by rooflessVW
There is nothing logical or reasonable about buying some beater brick Volvo as a track-only toy.

Who said it needs to be a "beater"?
There's plenty a new (to racing) driver can learn from low hp, RWD cars.
It'll teach them how to handle all sorts of situations, and not end up hurt/dead in the process.
Not to mention how easy it would be to reach that cars limits.

But yes, I understand. More is more and we only care about hp.
Silly me for suggesting something that would help the driver in real world situations, and not just on a track.
duh


06 Lexus IS350- Wife
88 BMW 325is- Mistress
Say "no" to Turbo!
Re: My sister is looking for a track day toy / weekend car [Re: Lolvoguy] #5065553 04/05/19 07:13 PM
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rooflessVW Offline
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Originally Posted by Lolvoguy
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
There is nothing logical or reasonable about buying some beater brick Volvo as a track-only toy.

Who said it needs to be a "beater"?
There's plenty a new (to racing) driver can learn from low hp, RWD cars.
It'll teach them how to handle all sorts of situations, and not end up hurt/dead in the process.
Not to mention how easy it would be to reach that cars limits.

But yes, I understand. More is more and we only care about hp.
Silly me for suggesting something that would help the driver in real world situations, and not just on a track.
duh

Keep tapping your forehead, but do it harder for good measure.

I have not made a singe high-hp recommendation.

Not one.

What I have suggested are cars that are small and well-balanced, with masses of race parts and online support available. I could pick up a Craigslist Boxster for $2,500 and have a more suitable track day car from day one than the whole $7,500 budget dumped into an old brick.


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: My sister is looking for a track day toy / weekend car [Re: rooflessVW] #5065565 04/05/19 07:33 PM
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Kjmack Offline
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Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by Lolvoguy
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
There is nothing logical or reasonable about buying some beater brick Volvo as a track-only toy.

Who said it needs to be a "beater"?
There's plenty a new (to racing) driver can learn from low hp, RWD cars.
It'll teach them how to handle all sorts of situations, and not end up hurt/dead in the process.
Not to mention how easy it would be to reach that cars limits.

But yes, I understand. More is more and we only care about hp.
Silly me for suggesting something that would help the driver in real world situations, and not just on a track.
duh

Keep tapping your forehead, but do it harder for good measure.

I have not made a singe high-hp recommendation.

Not one.

What I have suggested are cars that are small and well-balanced, with masses of race parts and online support available. I could pick up a Craigslist Boxster for $2,500 and have a more suitable track day car from day one than the whole $7,500 budget dumped into an old brick.

The Only thing the Volvo would be good for is teaching her to her to never buy a new one , and how to look for oil sales because she would need alot of it .

Re: My sister is looking for a track day toy / weekend car [Re: rooflessVW] #5066178 04/06/19 02:16 PM
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dailydriver Offline
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Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by Lolvoguy
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
There is nothing logical or reasonable about buying some beater brick Volvo as a track-only toy.

Who said it needs to be a "beater"?
There's plenty a new (to racing) driver can learn from low hp, RWD cars.
It'll teach them how to handle all sorts of situations, and not end up hurt/dead in the process.
Not to mention how easy it would be to reach that cars limits.

But yes, I understand. More is more and we only care about hp.
Silly me for suggesting something that would help the driver in real world situations, and not just on a track.
duh

Keep tapping your forehead, but do it harder for good measure.

I have not made a singe high-hp recommendation.

Not one.

What I have suggested are cars that are small and well-balanced, with masses of race parts and online support available. I could pick up a Craigslist Boxster for $2,500 and have a more suitable track day car from day one than the whole $7,500 budget dumped into an old brick.


OK, agreed in pure performance factor, but have YOU actually had to wrench on an old 986??

I have (my brother's decrepit rolling garbage can taking up space in the garage), and I would rather have a whole mouth's worth of root canals done at one time, SANS anesthesia, than to do so ever again. frown wink


2016 Ford Fiesta ST 17K miles
Ravenol REP 5W-30
Fram XG3600 filter
Ravenol MTF-2 in the IB6 transaxle
Re: My sister is looking for a track day toy / weekend car [Re: dailydriver] #5066185 04/06/19 02:28 PM
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rooflessVW Offline
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Originally Posted by dailydriver
OK, agreed in pure performance factor, but have YOU actually had to wrench on an old 986??

Nope.

I have zero experience with high mileage clapped-out Porsches, BMWs, VWs, or Audis. LOL


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: My sister is looking for a track day toy / weekend car [Re: 555] #5066207 04/06/19 03:22 PM
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ddombrowski Offline OP
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Originally Posted by 555
Miata with a manual.
Mustang with automatic.
Draw up a budget with your sister. Be positive, but she should know what things cost(tires come to mind) and how often they need replacing.
Do you know specialist shops you trust that work on track cars too? This could also be a deciding factor.


I am the specialist shop.

Im not sure if it got missed in the original post but I race in Champcar with a few different cars. If I can get her to feel comfortable with manual, she has access to plenty of race cars I can put her in for a track day. She wants her own car though, and thats fine. It does seem she's reconsidering the automatic, which is great news.


2007 Honda Pilot EX-L 2WD - Mobil 1 5w20
2014 Mazda 6 Touring MT - PP 0w20
1984 Porsche 944 Chumpcar- Mobil 1 15w50
1998 Ford Expedition - Engine Oil

Re: My sister is looking for a track day toy / weekend car [Re: rooflessVW] #5066213 04/06/19 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by Lolvoguy
As many have said before,
it's more fun to drive a "slow car" fast, than a "fast car" slow

Yeah, no.

Not on a race track.


It depends on the field. At the beginnings of Champ and Lemons, when all the cars sucked, it was a ton of fun to drive a slow car fast.

Take that same car to a track day and go up against a field of M3s, corvettes, and 911s, and I'm doing nothing but point-bys. Its still manageable though.


2007 Honda Pilot EX-L 2WD - Mobil 1 5w20
2014 Mazda 6 Touring MT - PP 0w20
1984 Porsche 944 Chumpcar- Mobil 1 15w50
1998 Ford Expedition - Engine Oil

Re: My sister is looking for a track day toy / weekend car [Re: ddombrowski] #5066357 04/06/19 06:40 PM
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I'll agree and say that when everyone is slow, everyone is fast. Spec Miata is some of the best racing around.


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: My sister is looking for a track day toy / weekend car [Re: ddombrowski] #5110943 05/21/19 07:28 AM
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ddombrowski Offline OP
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We ended up picking up a 95 M3 with a 5 speed. Its a little rough but nothing I can't handle. She's already driving the car around town, not confidently, but she can get from A to B in suburbia. Hills and tight spaces she's still practicing.

[Linked Image]


2007 Honda Pilot EX-L 2WD - Mobil 1 5w20
2014 Mazda 6 Touring MT - PP 0w20
1984 Porsche 944 Chumpcar- Mobil 1 15w50
1998 Ford Expedition - Engine Oil

Re: My sister is looking for a track day toy / weekend car [Re: ddombrowski] #5110950 05/21/19 07:32 AM
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Excellent choice! I think I may have seen that car advertised.

Is it going to pull dual duty or are you going to gut and cage it?


"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."
Re: My sister is looking for a track day toy / weekend car [Re: ddombrowski] #5110957 05/21/19 07:38 AM
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That’s a great track car; reinforce the rear subframe mounts and be aware that the tight piston to valve clearance means that the S50 doesn’t tolerate being wound up past the redline. Conversely, the S50 is based on the M50 so rebuild costs are not nearly as expensive as they would be for a “real” M motor.


Mine:
2014 M235i
2009 Cooper Clubman
1999 Wrangler Sahara
1995 318ti Club Sport

Wife's:
2015 X1 xDrive28i M Sport


Son's
2009 328i

Buy what makes you smile...
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