FRAM Tough Guard TG3600 @3053 Miles, 4 Months

[Pinoak]

Also we've already discussed and seen where the leaf/bpv combo doesn't seal completely around sometimes. Seen it on Fu and both ocod and the. That means unfiltered oil is leaking by. It means any claimed efficiency goes out the window and it means any loose debris from the dirty side could go back through.
I'm just pointing out the obvious here because I hope anybody paying attention will see for themselves.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I'm starting to smell dirty socks with button eyes - lol.

 

[WellOiled]

+1

 

[DuckRyder]

Oh boy, here we go again... good times will be had by all....

 

[kschachn]

This goodtimes/Farnsworth/Pinoak nonsense is getting absolutely ridiculous. Going by the posts here it's clear most people know what's going on, which is good. At least it's not just a small subset of Bitog that knows.

 

[Job]

Originally Posted by blupupher
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
No need to repeat the obvious. I already said what you show. Maybe reading all what people say helps? If there is no glue over the tips of the exposed pleats, there is a path for oil to go into the center tube unfiltered. It's a manufacturing defect to have the end cap off to one side and the pleats exposed. It's a lot off too, as the orange circle makes the offset defect amount more obvious. It really is nothing to argue about, no worries as they say.

I read what you said, I showed what is covered by the spring and ADV, there is no leak.
Is it perfectly centered, no. Does it need to be if the spring seat or ADV seal of that area, no.

If you fail to understand that then I can't do any more.


My idea hinges of course on the tips of the pleats being open. It's like saying what if the Denso pleats are not sealed on the ends, which is hinted at every time they are shown. Oil will travel up the pleat and since the gasket is not present all the way over them, oil can go into the center unfiltered. Whether this one is fully sealed with wax or not has no bearing on the topic. Ir's a serious manufacturing defect, hopefully the new owners will fix it. Thanks for being polite unlike a few others who get all excited if someone says a Fram has a defect.

No worries as they say.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Farnsworth
Stop with the hints and show us the proof.

 

[Job]

Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Farnsworth
Stop with the hints and show us the proof.


The pictures show the defective end cap placement, just like other defects are shown here quite routinely. Sloppy manufacturing. Did I have a camera inside the man's oil filter before he cut it open? No. The case here is pictures and it did happen since we like to be clever.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Farnsworth
The pictures show the defective end cap placement, just like other defects are shown here quite routinely. Sloppy manufacturing. Did I have a camera inside the man's oil filter before he cut it open? No. The case here is pictures and it did happen since we like to be clever.

There is nothing defective about that filter, you're just making stuff up. You and your buddy.

 

[blupupher]

Originally Posted by Farnsworth

My idea hinges of course on the tips of the pleats being open. It's like saying what if the Denso pleats are not sealed on the ends, which is hinted at every time they are shown. Oil will travel up the pleat and since the gasket is not present all the way over them, oil can go into the center unfiltered. Whether this one is fully sealed with wax or not has no bearing on the topic. Ir's a serious manufacturing defect, hopefully the new owners will fix it. Thanks for being polite unlike a few others who get all excited if someone says a Fram has a defect.

No worries as they say.


OK, I think I understand your point.
Are you saying that where the small gap is on the internal part, those 5-6 tips of the pleats (red dots in pic) are not sealed and could be leaking into the center tube area (the green)?

I still say it is sealed by the pressure of the spring/ADV, but without seeing the filter and looking for glue residue in those spots (or even just poking a fine pick to see if they are sealed), can't say 100% for sure.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Farnsworth
My idea hinges of course on the tips of the pleats being open. It's like saying what if the Denso pleats are not sealed on the ends, which is hinted at every time they are shown. Oil will travel up the pleat and since the gasket is not present all the way over them, oil can go into the center unfiltered.


Where do you see in that photo that the ends of the pleats are not 100% sealed to the end cap? You might have finally seen (after years of explanation) why oil can't leak by the seal on the top of the end cap, so you start reaching far for some other excuse (missing glue on the pleat ends) why it might leak oil past the media when there's never been any proof/photos showing that the pleat ends aren't sufficiently glued.

Like said before, every filter on planet earth could have "missing glue" on the ends of the pleats if you want to do down that road.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by blupupher
OK, I think I understand your point.
Are you saying that where the small gap is on the internal part, those 5-6 tips of the pleats (red dots in pic) are not sealed and could be leaking into the center tube area (the green)?


Any filter, regardless of construction and if it has a center tube or not, will leak dirty oil if the ends of the pleats are not sealed 100%. This is a new venture into the weeds as a back peddle move.

 

[Job]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by blupupher
OK, I think I understand your point.
Are you saying that where the small gap is on the internal part, those 5-6 tips of the pleats (red dots in pic) are not sealed and could be leaking into the center tube area (the green)?


Any filter, regardless of construction and if it has a center tube or not, will leak dirty oil if the ends of the pleats are not sealed 100%. This is a new venture into the weeds as a back peddle move.


No it's not, whatever that is supposed to mean about back pedal move. The Fram has a defect and the pleats are exposed. A Toyota that has no defects is not the same discussion. It would be like saying your perfect Ultra "could have" an oil leak. Maybe the end cap has a hole it it. etc. Made up stuff. This one here the cap is off the pleats, not as designed. There is a strong reason it could have a leak.

 

[Job]

Originally Posted by blupupher
Originally Posted by Farnsworth

My idea hinges of course on the tips of the pleats being open. It's like saying what if the Denso pleats are not sealed on the ends, which is hinted at every time they are shown. Oil will travel up the pleat and since the gasket is not present all the way over them, oil can go into the center unfiltered. Whether this one is fully sealed with wax or not has no bearing on the topic. Ir's a serious manufacturing defect, hopefully the new owners will fix it. Thanks for being polite unlike a few others who get all excited if someone says a Fram has a defect.

No worries as they say.


OK, I think I understand your point.
Are you saying that where the small gap is on the internal part, those 5-6 tips of the pleats (red dots in pic) are not sealed and could be leaking into the center tube area (the green)?

I still say it is sealed by the pressure of the spring/ADV, but without seeing the filter and looking for glue residue in those spots (or even just poking a fine pick to see if they are sealed), can't say 100% for sure.



I am not saying this particular filter has missing wax there. When they glue the cap to the media it is supposed be all under the cap. If some pleat sticks out it may or may nor have wax in it. It isn't made according to design. I am not saying anything so outlandish. Part of it is writing is more easily misunderstood than talking in person.

 

[bullwinkle]

This is one of the issues where I miss having Jay Buckley/motorking around, he could help with this particular question. If there's an opening in between the pleats that wasn't sealed by the endcap, it would be a leak.

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted by bullwinkle
This is one of the issues where I miss having Jay Buckley/motorking around, he could help with this particular question. If there's an opening in between the pleats that wasn't sealed by the endcap, it would be a leak.
That would depend on whether the inner folds not covered by the end cap, therefore not completely glued to the end cap, are glued shut or not. I can't tell whether they are or not by looking at the photograph, and doubt anyone else can.

 

[wemay]

A spade is a spade. If this were a Puro, it would be crucified, torched and ridiculed to no end.

In all honesty, that is a design flaw or poorly constructed TG, and one that would allow leaking. It is a single filter though, not a procession, so let's not get carried away to that end eirher.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Any filter, regardless of construction and if it has a center tube or not, will leak dirty oil if the ends of the pleats are not sealed 100%. This is a new venture into the weeds as a back peddle move.

No it's not, whatever that is supposed to mean about back pedal move. The Fram has a defect and the pleats are exposed. A Toyota that has no defects is not the same discussion. It would be like saying your perfect Ultra "could have" an oil leak. Maybe the end cap has a hole it it. etc. Made up stuff. This one here the cap is off the pleats, not as designed. There is a strong reason it could have a leak.


Maybe grasping at straws is a better description. So how is it going to leak dirty oil because of those exposed pleats? Photo isn't even clear enough to see exactly what's going on inside that gap with the pleat ends as far as the glue job. What if there was no center tube at all like some cartridge filters? - the ultimate "gap" and exposure of pleats. Your getting pretty obtuse saying "there could be no glue on some of the pleat ends" ... but where's the proof that's the case? Can you find any C&P thread where that's been shown? People could say "there could be a flaw" on any oil filter ever made with no visible proof ... that's all you've done in this case.

So where is the proof that this one is leaking dirty oil at the gap?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by wemay
In all honesty, that is a design flaw or poorly constructed TG, and one that would allow leaking.


Please explain how when the pleats are all glued to the end cap and the spring assy puts a sealing ring all the way around the center tube.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by wemay
In all honesty, that is a design flaw or poorly constructed TG, and one that would allow leaking.


Please explain how when the pleats are all glued to the end cap and the spring assy puts a sealing ring all the way around the center tube.


Ah, I see what you're saying. The separation of end-cap from the center tube (although visually unattractive), really holds no significance because the pleats are glued further out under the end-cap to begin with. Just like the pinched ADBV found on other filters that look bad but don't go through, hence no harm to filtering capabilities there either.