Tesla Model 3 Owners Only - Thoughts?

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Just test drove a "Standard Plus" Model 3 today with Autopilot. I have to say, it far exceeded my expectations. I was very impressed by the driving experience, the user interface, autopilot, acceleration, and how quiet it was.

Any bitog Model 3 owners care to share your thoughts/review?

Non-Tesla owners, please save your opinions for another thread, we know where you stand regarding all things Tesla.



Don't let AP drive your buying decision. Just yesterday in FLA another Model 3 driver killed himself while using AP. I'm not suggesting AP is defective just that it seems to lull some owners into complacency.

100% agree. Only an idiot would trust AP completely.
Tesla analyzes AP miles; they have logged billions of miles of data.
Is it coming? Yes. Is it here? No.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Lauding their driving dynamics while ignoring their ridiculous weight is disingenuous. Mass is mass, and at high velocities the weight is a real concern.

Talking about how long things will last is also speculation. Nobody knows yet.

Personally I love the idea of near zero maintenance, but until they improve their battery life and prove their reliability I am not sold. I am, however, eager to see the reaction to Teslas when the competition from Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, etc., arrives on scene.


Exciting times...

 

[Job]

Breaking the rule of participation, but they all still use explosive lithium ion batteries now. When that is corrected and it's already known how, with double the capacity and the same weight, it will be a game changer. Plus the price, and if government stops the tax credit it will be rough for the makers. Most people look at the tax credits in the decision. The Bolt is already cut to 3750. I do own a plug in now, and the novelty is wearing off already. Free charging is too competitive with other owners, time consuming, and in cold weather cabin heat depletes the batteries much more rapidly. As a second car it's OK to have fun with it as this point. Electric motor propulsion is superior I believe.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

We have a few charging spots here at work and I find it odd that they are very rarely used.
One coworker has a Tesla and I think I've only seen him charging at work once!
Somebody else has a smaller EV and I see them charging at work on and off, maybe once every two weeks.
Maybe the rates on this charger are not subsidized and are too high for our EV drivers?

They do get used when our surrounding buildings have more visitors than usual and people sneak over to our lot to park.
Those folks are pretty obnoxious and putting their gasser in an EV spot is hardly an issue for them when they aren't even in a lot they should be setting foot or tire in at all.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by Burt
Jeff

Why do you say that solar panels are the way to go for recharging? Most cars are gone during the day and recharge at night. I understand the feel good aspect of using solar, but isn't equally beneficial whether you use the electricity to power your home or sell power to the grid?


OP - Model 3 is killer. Ive Driven one for a few days.
Ive driven a p85d model S a week - incredible ride.

Solar - It only makes sense in the concept that a KWH can be fungible. (in a flat rate like I have) or a net metered setup - every KWH you make - can offset one you'd have to pay for.

Jeff is on point In any kind of fast charge stand-alone capacity - your roof is a joke.


My next car will be electric of some sort - the reality of a full tank every day outweigh almost any downside for me
I have ICE cars and trucks for long trips.

UD

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
When we bought the car, 0 to 60 was like 5.6 seconds.
After an overnight software update, it was reduced to 5.2 seconds and we got another 20 miles of range.

That's great, but it also likely comes at the expense of reducing battery life.
Faster acceleration is achieved by demanding higher current draw from the batteries. Longer range is achieved by allowing batteries to discharge deeper. All the things that batteries don't like, so it shortens their life. But at least you have that option to use or not use these added benefits.

Also, those rated acceleration figures assume 100% SOC. As battery gets drained, the car will become slower, alas, still pretty fast relatively speaking.

 

[1JZ_E46]

Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
When we bought the car, 0 to 60 was like 5.6 seconds.
After an overnight software update, it was reduced to 5.2 seconds and we got another 20 miles of range.

That's great, but it also likely comes at the expense of reducing battery life.
Faster acceleration is achieved by demanding higher current draw from the batteries. Longer range is achieved by allowing batteries to discharge deeper. All the things that batteries don't like, so it shortens their life. But at least you have that option to use or not use these added benefits.

Also, those rated acceleration figures assume 100% SOC. As battery gets drained, the car will become slower, alas, still pretty fast relatively speaking.

It's my understanding that the quoted 0-60 time is at a 50% state of charge. That doesn't mean that it's faster at 100%, though, as it will simply draw less current.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
When we bought the car, 0 to 60 was like 5.6 seconds.
After an overnight software update, it was reduced to 5.2 seconds and we got another 20 miles of range.

That's great, but it also likely comes at the expense of reducing battery life.
Faster acceleration is achieved by demanding higher current draw from the batteries. Longer range is achieved by allowing batteries to discharge deeper. All the things that batteries don't like, so it shortens their life. But at least you have that option to use or not use these added benefits.

Also, those rated acceleration figures assume 100% SOC. As battery gets drained, the car will become slower, alas, still pretty fast relatively speaking.

It's my understanding that the quoted 0-60 time is at a 50% state of charge. That doesn't mean that it's faster at 100%, though, as it will simply draw less current.

I THINK the best speed is achieved at full charge. But at low charge you lose a little.

Tesla 0 to 60 - 10% charge

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk

The car is software driven; some will struggle with that.


Every modern car is software driven just as every current airliner is.
The fact that most road vehicles use conventional displays doesn't change that.

 

[4WD]

Sure … Not as much … but our Tahoe has lots of smart screen stuff … Navigation … XM, all the lane drift (nudge you back and butt buzz) , automatic stopping, rain sensors … and of course the engine/power train … included in that AFM …
Brakes and stability systems, traction control etc …
Memories for all kinds of settings … Travel assistances … phone link ups … remote monitoring of all systems … Emergency/security response (automatically) … Theft Protection etc …
As for 4WD ? I can decide or let the computer decide …

Oh, even the "analog" gauges are really digital images …

OMG, almost forgot OLM and cool amber, brown, black oil image …

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/05/16/tesla-car-fire-battery-software-update/

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted by Burt
Jeff

Why do you say that solar panels are the way to go for recharging? Most cars are gone during the day and recharge at night. I understand the feel good aspect of using solar, but isn't equally beneficial whether you use the electricity to power your home or sell power to the grid?


Don't bother with that question, we've been kicking that around for months...and I agree...I'm getting solar on my home, but it would never be charging my car (assuming I went that way), as the daytime is when I use my cars.

A Vampire blood bank delivery driver may have different results.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted by UncleDave

Jeff is on point In any kind of fast charge stand-alone capacity - your roof is a joke.


Hyundai Kona "home fast charge" is 7.2KW, and takes 9-1/2 hours.

I'm getting 6.6KW, and don't get 9-1/2 hours at max capacity, so roofs are never going to provide owners with charging capability.

BTW, fast charging, just like insane launches wreck the battery.

Telsa disables the charging rate at a certain point in the battery life such that superchargers take longer and longer...they also disable insane launches via sogtware update a while ago on vehicles that had over-used it...they rapidly reversed that decision...not slow supercharging 'though.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by Burt
Jeff

Why do you say that solar panels are the way to go for recharging? Most cars are gone during the day and recharge at night. I understand the feel good aspect of using solar, but isn't equally beneficial whether you use the electricity to power your home or sell power to the grid?


Don't bother with that question, we've been kicking that around for months...and I agree...I'm getting solar on my home, but it would never be charging my car (assuming I went that way), as the daytime is when I use my cars.

A Vampire blood bank delivery driver may have different results.

Come on over to the dark side Shannow...
Hey, did you know the Model 3 has the lowest drag coefficient of any production car at .23? Must be those shaved door pulls...
My friend's BMW i8 is like .26 I believe.

 

[dcd]

I would love to own a Model 3. A couple of coworkers have them and are very happy. It seems that other non-Tesla EVs are just depreciation bombs, so not a lot of market choices right now and it remains to be seen how well the competitors hold their value.

The thing that gives me the most hesitation is post-warranty service. Will Tesla still be around in 5-10 years? If so will they still have service centers or will you have to pay a fortune to some mobile Tesla mechanic?

 

[Cujet]

As Shannow points out, daytime solar charging is unlikely for many of us that work day jobs. However, I would like to see a direct DC charger setup incorporated into EV's. Simply connect a PV panel array of sufficient voltage and the car does the rest.

Removes the DC to AC, to charger to DC conversion steps.

As I've mentioned before, the compounding inefficiencies of conversion are a part of the reason only 59% to 62% of grid power makes it to the EV's wheels. Other losses include battery charge loses and battery DC to AC conversion, along with motor efficiency.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by Cujet
As Shannow points out, daytime solar charging is unlikely for many of us that work day jobs.

Cujet, if you have solar panels it does not matter when you charge, as long as:
You own you panels (lease reduces the cost per kWh).
You bank more than you use.

More and more companies offer free or subsidized charging.
I spoke with many people before buying an EV, as a matter of interest.
Numerous owners told me they never charge at home.
Of course not everyone is in this situation.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by UncleDave

Jeff is on point In any kind of fast charge stand-alone capacity - your roof is a joke.

Hyundai Kona "home fast charge" is 7.2KW, and takes 9-1/2 hours.
I'm getting 6.6KW, and don't get 9-1/2 hours at max capacity, so roofs are never going to provide owners with charging capability.
BTW, fast charging, just like insane launches wreck the battery.
Telsa disables the charging rate at a certain point in the battery life such that superchargers take longer and longer...they also disable insane launches via sogtware update a while ago on vehicles that had over-used it...they rapidly reversed that decision...not slow supercharging 'though.


pretty sure were saying the same thing

You aren't charging the car with the roof.

Your roof is simply offsetting the KWH you use regardless if its to charge the car or run the AC or pool pump.

in a net metered solar roof here in the US the roof isn't powering anything - and the system will shut down if the power goes to prevent backfeed up the line.

UD

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by Cujet
As Shannow points out, daytime solar charging is unlikely for many of us that work day jobs.

Cujet, if you have solar panels it does not matter when you charge, as long as:
You own you panels (lease reduces the cost per kWh).
You bank more than you use.


It DOES matter, because you are polluting someone else's back yard while you charge...it's NOT A BANK...your excess is NOT BANKED...it is used, and if there's nowhere for it to go, the wholesale price drops until someone takes it.

In south Australia, the price regularly goes -ve, as there's more supply than demand.

Then at afternoon peak, they fire up the 30% efficient Gas Turbines, often running on diesel...then the dirty old stuff allows them to charge their EVs over night.

reinforcing...IT'S NOT a BANK...and should never be thought of as one, as that sort of overly simplistic self justification is why all of our grids are currently unstable...South Australia proudly proclaims that it's regularly a "NETT" exporter of green energy...but when the interconnector to the dirty brown coal goes down, the state goes black.

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
More and more companies offer free or subsidized charging.
I spoke with many people before buying an EV, as a matter of interest.
Numerous owners told me they never charge at home.
Of course not everyone is in this situation.


And that's going to last how long ????

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by Cujet
As Shannow points out, daytime solar charging is unlikely for many of us that work day jobs.

Cujet, if you have solar panels it does not matter when you charge, as long as:
You own you panels (lease reduces the cost per kWh).
You bank more than you use.


It DOES matter, because you are polluting someone else's back yard while you charge...it's NOT A BANK...your excess is NOT BANKED...it is used, and if there's nowhere for it to go, the wholesale price drops until someone takes it.

In south Australia, the price regularly goes -ve, as there's more supply than demand.

Then at afternoon peak, they fire up the 30% efficient Gas Turbines, often running on diesel...then the dirty old stuff allows them to charge their EVs over night.

reinforcing...IT'S NOT a BANK...and should never be thought of as one, as that sort of overly simplistic self justification is why all of our grids are currently unstable...South Australia proudly proclaims that it's regularly a "NETT" exporter of green energy...but when the interconnector to the dirty brown coal goes down, the state goes black.

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
More and more companies offer free or subsidized charging.
I spoke with many people before buying an EV, as a matter of interest.
Numerous owners told me they never charge at home.
Of course not everyone is in this situation.


And that's going to last how long ????

Shannow, you may not like the term bank, but I think you understand the point.
I expect to pay $10 per month for electricity for many years to come.
Your argument of polluting someone's else backyard is an argument for more renewables, not less.
That was a key reason for me to go solar.
As of December, CA requires solar on new houses. Goes into effect next year. There are exceptions for homes in low sunlight areas.
The new developments I have seen all have solar panels. Owners love 'em.
Natural gas still generates 50% of our electricity, but continues to decline.
All but 1 nuclear pants have been closed, the last one is going to close. Replaced by renewables.
Coal is less than 1%.

Where I live, Silicon Valley, more and more companies offer subsidized or free charging and offer benefits to those who purchase green vehicles.
Perhaps where you live things are different.
Things are changing. Change is hard, especially real change; there will be issues.
I embrace this green change and support it with my money.

Our federal government has supported green initiatives through tax credits. I got a credit for the Model 3 and the solar project.
"And that's going to last how long ????"
No one can say for sure; tere ain't no crystal balls...
But it is growing where I live. I can tell you that. People want it.
Prius has been a top selling car for many years. Model 3 was #3 last year.
There is much more. I believe you would find it interesting.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted by fdcg27
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk

The car is software driven; some will struggle with that.


Every modern car is software driven just as every current airliner is.
The fact that most road vehicles use conventional displays doesn't change that.



Even some trucks. My RAM has been updated with a superb safety feature purely by changing/adding software. Now any time you open the door in gear and take your foot off the brake the truck instantly goes into park.

Just an example, modern vehicles all have some tricks, too...