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Edge 0w30 thicker than 5w30 #5107185
05/16/19 08:34 PM
05/16/19 08:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 239
GA
Silver Offline OP
Silver  Offline OP

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 239
GA
Even at 40c. Seems like they should just switch labels?

pds

Last edited by Silver; 05/16/19 08:35 PM.
Re: Edge 0w30 thicker than 5w30 [Re: Silver] #5107195
05/16/19 08:49 PM
05/16/19 08:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 15
United States
fordf250123 Offline
fordf250123  Offline

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 15
United States
Wow, that Edge 0w-30 is great with a 3.5 hths and 8% noak. I wish I could buy it, but too hard to find.

Re: Edge 0w30 thicker than 5w30 [Re: Silver] #5107199
05/16/19 08:51 PM
05/16/19 08:51 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,410
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,410
Great Lakes
Originally Posted by Silver
Even at 40c. Seems like they should just switch labels?

The 0w or 5w rating has nothing to do with viscosity at 40C.

Edge 0W-30 is an ACEA A3/B4 Euro oil. Edge 5W-30 is your typical API SN energy conserving oil. Two very different animals.


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (PUP 0W-40 SRT)
Re: Edge 0w30 thicker than 5w30 [Re: Silver] #5107201
05/16/19 08:53 PM
05/16/19 08:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,145
New England
Virtus_Probi Online mad
Virtus_Probi  Online Mad

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,145
New England
First of all, this sheet is from 2014. Lots has changed since then.
Secondly, the OPer should probably do some research into the difference between a 0W30 and a 5W30. Has nothing to do with the viscosity at 40C or 100C. CCS/MRV for the former are tested at -35C/-40C while it's -30C/-35C for the latter, with broadly similar viscosity requirements between the two sets of temps.


2014 Forester XT, 100000 miles
Last Change;
M1 10W30 HM SN+
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Edge 0w30 thicker than 5w30 [Re: Silver] #5107214
05/16/19 09:02 PM
05/16/19 09:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 239
GA
Silver Offline OP
Silver  Offline OP

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 239
GA
Thanks for the info Virtus. It is what the site linked to.
Gee whiz Castrol!

So that makes it really difficult to compare oils. Generally I see lower 40c viscosities for 0w vs 5w and that has always made sense to me until now 🙁

Last edited by Silver; 05/16/19 09:03 PM.
Re: Edge 0w30 thicker than 5w30 [Re: Silver] #5107217
05/16/19 09:10 PM
05/16/19 09:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,566
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline

Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,566
MN
Not quite. The 0w30 is made to have a high HTHS, and it qualifies for the "0w" very-cold part due to its use of PAO VHVI base oil. The 5w30 is basically a GroupIII product that has just enough wax in it to force it into the "5w" category, still not bad as long as your start-up temperatures are above about 0F or so.

Re: Edge 0w30 thicker than 5w30 [Re: Silver] #5107223
05/16/19 09:17 PM
05/16/19 09:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,608
pa
benjy Offline
benjy  Offline

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,608
pa
even though an 0W oil generally must use some PAO + or Ester base oil its thinner base oils + added viscosity index improvers is not a good thing unless you really need the 0W for very cold start temperatures.

Re: Edge 0w30 thicker than 5w30 [Re: benjy] #5107262
05/16/19 10:14 PM
05/16/19 10:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,287
MT
jongies3 Offline
jongies3  Offline

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 1,287
MT
Originally Posted by benjy
even though an 0W oil generally must use some PAO + or Ester base oil its thinner base oils + added viscosity index improvers is not a good thing unless you really need the 0W for very cold start temperatures.

Completely untrue. You've been here 9 years and still think like this? Lol


2004 Toyota Tacoma 3.4 V6: Mobil 1 AFE 0W-30, FRAM PH3614 filter
2003 Buick Park Avenue Ultra S/C 3.8 V6: QSGB 10W-30, FRAM filter
2013 Honda 400EX ATV: Mobil 1 Racing 4t 10W-40, OEM filter
Re: Edge 0w30 thicker than 5w30 [Re: Silver] #5107265
05/16/19 10:20 PM
05/16/19 10:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 9,341
...
PimTac Offline
PimTac  Offline

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 9,341
...


A lot of people still don’t know what the W means.


2017 Mazda CX5
Havoline Pro DS 0w20
Roki OEM filter.
Re: Edge 0w30 thicker than 5w30 [Re: PimTac] #5107266
05/16/19 10:22 PM
05/16/19 10:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,253
Cajun Country, La.
BlueOvalFitter Offline
BlueOvalFitter  Offline

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 6,253
Cajun Country, La.
Originally Posted by PimTac


A lot of people still don’t know what the W means.

"W"hat?


2007 F150, 4.2 V6
Havoline HM 5W20, NAPA GOLD FIL-1516 MC FL-400S
"One Box, One OCI!"
Re: Edge 0w30 thicker than 5w30 [Re: BlueOvalFitter] #5107324
05/17/19 12:44 AM
05/17/19 12:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 609
Suomi
Bjornviken Online content
Bjornviken  Online Content

Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 609
Suomi
Originally Posted by BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted by PimTac


A lot of people still don’t know what the W means.

"W"hat?


LOL

Re: Edge 0w30 thicker than 5w30 [Re: Silver] #5107401
05/17/19 06:49 AM
05/17/19 06:49 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,145
New England
Virtus_Probi Online mad
Virtus_Probi  Online Mad

Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,145
New England
Originally Posted by Silver
Thanks for the info Virtus. It is what the site linked to.
Gee whiz Castrol!
So that makes it really difficult to compare oils. Generally I see lower 40c viscosities for 0w vs 5w and that has always made sense to me until now 🙁

You are welcome, sir. The whole W thing was a mystery to me until I started poking around here and on other car sites.
Some companies make it so hard to find up to date information...I tend to find the lookup page for Shell/Pennzoil PDS hard to use, although the info is there somewhere. Easier for me to find Mobil 1 info, but they don't share a lot of details in general.
Amsoil's site is easy to navigate for me and shares a ton of info, but it's not enough for me to pony up the extra $$$ for the SS oils I find attractive.
The introduction of GM's dexos1 Gen 2 standard in 2017 has caused many SN/GF5 5W30s like the one you reference to be reformulated, so info from 2014 on that oil is almost certainly outdated.
I believe that 0W30 is generally referred to as "German Castrol" or GC on this and other sites and was a much sought after oil. As mentioned above, it seems to have become scarce in the US for whatever reason.

This site has good tables about what the numbers in an oil grade really mean;

https://wiki.anton-paar.com/en/sae-viscosity-grades/

CCS is Cold Cranking Simulator and MRV is Mini Rotary Viscometer...the latter test is intended to measure how easy it is to pump a cold oil, the intent of CCS is pretty obvious.
It seems that the CCS spec is the more difficult one to meet for the oils we see on the shelves and the MRV spec is usually cleared by a wide margin when the results are shared.
Shannow, who works on lubrication issues in massive turbines IIRC, has proposed that a 2:1 ratio of MRV to CCS viscosity reflects an oil that has little to no Pour Point Depressant (PPD) added to it and has excellent "natural" cold weather properties, while a higher ratio reflects the use of PPD additives.


2014 Forester XT, 100000 miles
Last Change;
M1 10W30 HM SN+
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Edge 0w30 thicker than 5w30 [Re: oil_film_movies] #5107415
05/17/19 07:10 AM
05/17/19 07:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,457
Central Iowa
TiredTrucker Offline
TiredTrucker  Offline

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Posts: 3,457
Central Iowa
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Not quite. The 0w30 is made to have a high HTHS, and it qualifies for the "0w" very-cold part due to its use of PAO VHVI base oil. The 5w30 is basically a GroupIII product that has just enough wax in it to force it into the "5w" category, still not bad as long as your start-up temperatures are above about 0F or so.


How is it then that many folks use a 5w30 at sub zero temps with no issues? I have never used a 0wXX oil in my 50 years of driving and every year deal with periods of -20F or less on occasion. And 5w30 has done just fine. The stuff is rated for -30C / -23F in terms of CCS viscosity and most of the synthetic varieties have pour points 10 degrees or more lower.

Even for my heavy engine, I use a 10w30 in cold temps and it starts and runs fine in cold weather. Yes, even in S. Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, etc where it operates all year. And that motor has turned over 973,000 miles and uses roughly 1 quart of oil in 11,000 miles which seems to be less than many with much lower mile vehicles on many forums I visit.

So how is it again that one should only use a 5w30 above 0F?


Freedom is not about having the choice to do what you want, but the choice to do what you ought.
Re: Edge 0w30 thicker than 5w30 [Re: TiredTrucker] #5107500
05/17/19 08:45 AM
05/17/19 08:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 4,566
MN
oil_film_movies Offline
oil_film_movies  Offline

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MN
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Not quite. The 0w30 is made to have a high HTHS, and it qualifies for the "0w" very-cold part due to its use of PAO VHVI base oil. The 5w30 is basically a GroupIII product that has just enough wax in it to force it into the "5w" category, still not bad as long as your start-up temperatures are above about 0F or so.

How is it then that many folks use a 5w30 at sub zero temps with no issues?
"If your engine doesn't sieze up, then it must be gooder oil." right??! ...is the Tired Old argument. Truth is, some people want better wear performance, and as viscosity is lower when cold, cylinder wear rates will trend downward.
See the trend? Notice -21C in the graph is -6F, where differences do exist. ----> https://www.emeraldinsight.com/doi/pdfplus/10.1108/00368790010352691
[Linked Image]

Re: Edge 0w30 thicker than 5w30 [Re: TiredTrucker] #5107508
05/17/19 08:54 AM
05/17/19 08:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,410
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,410
Great Lakes
Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
How is it then that many folks use a 5w30 at sub zero temps with no issues?
Back in the day, people used 15W-40. Was it optimal? No, but that's all that was available at the time.


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (PUP 0W-40 SRT)
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