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Re: Instead of Stopping Riding Maybe I Get an MC w/ All Those New Safety Features [Re: AZjeff] #5105682
05/15/19 05:31 AM
05/15/19 05:31 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,165
Massachusetts
AuthorEditor Offline
AuthorEditor  Offline

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,165
Massachusetts
Quote
People drive stupid these days with no courtesy and no respect for their fellow road users.

Having ridden bikes for more than half a century I think things are actually much better on the road for motorcycles, overall. The big difference is today's riders often get a first bike that has 100HP and can easily kill them, while in the past most of us were riding little minibikes, 100cc dirtbikes and such for years before we even had our licenses. Then we bought our first motorcycles they were like 250s with 20HP. We had nothing in terms of safety equipment, so we had to go slow and safe. Car drivers in those days had giant beasts that couldn't stop and were often loaded with half the neighborhood--talk about distraction! Deaths on the highway are way, way down today, compared to the 60s, but motorcycle rates may be up. Frankly, I think it is mostly due to us, the riders, based on what I see on the road.

Re: Instead of Stopping Riding Maybe I Get an MC w/ All Those New Safety Features [Re: LoneRanger] #5105891
05/15/19 10:45 AM
05/15/19 10:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 199
New York
jeff78 Offline
jeff78  Offline

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 199
New York
Yamaha says that the Niken allows for up to a 45 degree lean angle. What happens past that? Does it lift the outer front wheel? Skid like a car? Lowside like a bike?

Electronics to automatically apply the brakes on the car tailgating you and jam cell signals within a one mile radius, I'd call those safety features.

Re: Instead of Stopping Riding Maybe I Get an MC w/ All Those New Safety Features [Re: LoneRanger] #5106116
05/15/19 03:45 PM
05/15/19 03:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 21
florida
joe02151 Offline
joe02151  Offline

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 21
florida
I road a 2006 yamaha r1 with no electronics for 4 years, I put 89k miles on it, then last year I bought at 2017 r1, it has TCS ABS stability control that controls TCS the further the bike is leaned over in a corner. I ride it 100+ miles a day in south florida with the rain and sand. The electronics are a big deal for me especially the ABS. the bike will even use the rear brake automatically whenever you use the front brake.

Re: Instead of Stopping Riding Maybe I Get an MC w/ All Those New Safety Features [Re: AuthorEditor] #5106578
05/16/19 07:03 AM
05/16/19 07:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 130
Greece
Panos Offline
Panos  Offline

Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 130
Greece
Originally Posted by AuthorEditor
Quote
People drive stupid these days with no courtesy and no respect for their fellow road users.

Having ridden bikes for more than half a century I think things are actually much better on the road for motorcycles, overall. The big difference is today's riders often get a first bike that has 100HP and can easily kill them, while in the past most of us were riding little minibikes, 100cc dirtbikes and such for years before we even had our licenses. Then we bought our first motorcycles they were like 250s with 20HP. We had nothing in terms of safety equipment, so we had to go slow and safe. Car drivers in those days had giant beasts that couldn't stop and were often loaded with half the neighborhood--talk about distraction! Deaths on the highway are way, way down today, compared to the 60s, but motorcycle rates may be up. Frankly, I think it is mostly due to us, the riders, based on what I see on the road.


I ve lost half of my left pinky finger and dislocated my left ankle (which left me with arthritis and myosytis ossificans-that's extra bones created by my body around the joint) while riding my 250 Ninja going 40Km/h.
A Kawasaki Z750 from the oposite direction going 80Km/h (as his rider told me) hit me on the left clip on,causing me to fly and land to the tarmac and faint 2 seconds later.Woke up at hospital with dislocated ankle,my half finger hanging 90 degrees completely broken and half cut , and needing stiches on my forearm.
This is my first real bike I have been (and still) riding for 65.000kms.When I reached about 50.000kms with it was the time that I bought my Honda CBR600F with the combined ABS to "level up" my riding skills and experience.
Horsepower is not needed in order to get killed or get hurt.
A blink of an eye that missed the oncoming danger is enough.Even going at bicycle speed.
Didn't stop me from fixing my bike and keep riding both of them.Even after that harsh 5 month period with physiotherapy and enormous physical (less now) and mental pain (as good as before now).


Ford Fiesta 1.6 '05 - Motul specific 913D/Motul Gear 300
Kawasaki Ninja 250R '08 - Shell Advance Ultra 4T 10w40
Honda CBR600F pc41 '14 - Motul 7100 10w30
Re: Instead of Stopping Riding Maybe I Get an MC w/ All Those New Safety Features [Re: LoneRanger] #5107109
05/16/19 06:28 PM
05/16/19 06:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,096
Cincinnati, OH
donnyj08 Online content
donnyj08  Online Content

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,096
Cincinnati, OH
Originally Posted by LoneRanger
Originally Posted by 02SE
I rode a Niken for a bit. I personally didn't care for the heavy and heavy-feeling front end. But everyone has their own likes and expectations.

There are other versions of motorcycles with two wheels in the front that lean. An aftermarket example: Tilting Motorworks

Yamaha has Demo trucks that travel around the country. Some dealers, admittedly very few, will also allow test rides.

You can put in your location at this link, and see if any Demo events are near you: Yamaha events


How was the power? My Guzzi is 600 lbs (book) and 105 hp w/ 79 lb-ft torque. While I see that the Niken's triple is rated @ 110hp, can't find a torque curve or torque figure. While thought I'd like the Guzzi CARC shaft drive system, there's just a lot of take-up (slack) in it. Wouldn't be against going back to a chain and sprocket bike.



I have put 12k miles on an XSR900 with The 847cc Triple. The Yamaha 3 cylinder is super strong down low. I know the niken is heavier than the XSR, but I guarantee it will still feel very strong and plenty fast.

The Yamaha triple makes around 65lbft of torque with 80% of that available by 3k RPM at least that is per Yamaha for the XSR/FZ09/FJ09 and Tracer 900


2008 Silverado Z71 LT 96k Maxlife FS 5w30
2010 Ford Escape 192k QSUD 5w20
2016 Yamaha XSR900 13k, Spectro 10w40, Yamaha Filter.
Re: Instead of Stopping Riding Maybe I Get an MC w/ All Those New Safety Features [Re: donnyj08] #5107202
05/16/19 08:54 PM
05/16/19 08:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 183
Colorado, USA
Bonz Offline
Bonz  Offline

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 183
Colorado, USA
How does the Cam Am Spyder look to you? I rode one at one of the first demo days they had when they were taking orders for the first production run. A lot of fun! You can pick up a used Spyder for a good price and that Rotax V-twin has plenty of power. Newer models also have an in-line triple available. I like the visual footprint it has, especially for oncoming cars. It has been around for a long time and parts and service should be readily available for a long time to come. I am thinking the Yamaha Niken isn’t gonna be around for more than a few years. Yamaha had a great idea in the GTS back in the early 90’s with the swing arm front suspension, but basically died on the vine at dealers for the price. JAT when looking ahead.

Last edited by Bonz; 05/16/19 08:55 PM.
Re: Instead of Stopping Riding Maybe I Get an MC w/ All Those New Safety Features [Re: LoneRanger] #5107650
05/17/19 12:15 PM
05/17/19 12:15 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,165
Massachusetts
AuthorEditor Offline
AuthorEditor  Offline

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,165
Massachusetts
Quote
Horsepower is not needed in order to get killed or get hurt.
A blink of an eye that missed the oncoming danger is enough.Even going at bicycle speed.

Very true! But, inexperience and high horsepower, plus weight, can be a significant contributing factor. I religiously read every local motorcycle accident report and a significant number seem to be caused by excessive speed, lack of control, and inexperience. Yes, most accidents are caused by cars turning into the path of a motorcycle, but it doesn't help if the cycle is going 100mph popping wheelies when it happens. Even in your crash, I wonder if it would have been worse if your bike had weighed 800 pounds instead of 325 or whatever a Ninja 250 weighs? I was early onto the scene of a Goldwing crash once, and apparently what did them in was a huge bump in the road at a very slow speed left hand turn. That would have been very negotiable on a light bike.

Re: Instead of Stopping Riding Maybe I Get an MC w/ All Those New Safety Features [Re: AuthorEditor] #5108077
05/17/19 09:45 PM
05/17/19 09:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 183
Colorado, USA
Bonz Offline
Bonz  Offline

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 183
Colorado, USA
I don’t have any stories or reports one way or the other, a lighter bike and a heavier bike have their benefits and downsides depending on the day and situation. That sounds like what is being said in the post above.

With that said, the right hand and wrist controls SO much (maybe “everything” when talking overall control) on a motorcycle... the power of the engine and the front brake. No two elements give more authority over “go” and “slow”. More folks are taken out by cagers than anything, and usually cagers turning. It’s about queuing up the eyes and mind to be looking ahead and all the great techniques we can read about and practice with respect it planning escape routes, proactively rolling out and covering the brake at an intersection with cars entering or coming towards.

Like I said, a Spyder will give a heckuva frontal visual footprint, if not real similar to many cars.

Re: Instead of Stopping Riding Maybe I Get an MC w/ All Those New Safety Features [Re: LoneRanger] #5108253
05/18/19 07:42 AM
05/18/19 07:42 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 15
Brazil
Andersonpg Offline
Andersonpg  Offline

Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 15
Brazil
No fear! LOL


fear or confidence, not too much or too little



Last edited by Andersonpg; 05/18/19 07:51 AM.
Re: Instead of Stopping Riding Maybe I Get an MC w/ All Those New Safety Features [Re: LoneRanger] #5133468
06/13/19 06:33 PM
06/13/19 06:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 60
'Murica
AtomicNumber53 Offline
AtomicNumber53  Offline

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 60
'Murica
Or you could just be smart and ride a motor scooter instead of a motorcycle. I saw a statistic that stated motorcyclists are more than 3x likely to get in an accident (or maybe it was flat-out DIE?) than those on scooters.

Plenty of valid theories as to why that is, and they all make sense to me. I long for the day that people realize a 150cc scooter (PCX 150, anyone?) actually looks cooler than a lot of motorcycles, gets 100 mpg, has storage under the seat, can be operated with only one hand (yay for texting and scooting! jk!!), is safer for numerous reasons (knees and legs are protected if the bike is laid down, for starters), *and* it can go 75 to 80 mph (after spending less than $100 to upgrade various CVT parts, primarily lighter weight rollers and [steeper angled] driveface). 65 mph stock is actually perfect for me, however, because all the highways I travel on are limited to 55mph, which means people ACTUALLY travel at 65 mph... so I just hold it wide open and don't ever have to worry about the speed limit. Amazing contraption. I'm probly going to buy nothing but Hondas for the rest of my life because this PCX has changed my life so much. So awesome!!

Motorcycles are cool, too... but I'm not sure I'd ever want to shift a CBR600RR, so long as Honda's CTX700 or NC700X are still produced with DCT transmissions that do all the shifting for me. I have a 6 speed manual trans in my car, but shifting on a bike is not nearly as safe, IMHO. We all know that it's not us, it's THEM that's the problem on the road. So be prepared, buy an automatic!! ;-)

Re: Instead of Stopping Riding Maybe I Get an MC w/ All Those New Safety Features [Re: AtomicNumber53] #5133721
06/13/19 11:50 PM
06/13/19 11:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,818
The Canyons
02SE Offline
02SE  Offline

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,818
The Canyons
Ok, I'm curious. What makes shifting a bike unsafe?

I've been shifting bikes since I was 6. Never had an issue shifting.

Re: Instead of Stopping Riding Maybe I Get an MC w/ All Those New Safety Features [Re: LoneRanger] #5133902
06/14/19 08:35 AM
06/14/19 08:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 104
WI
troop Offline
troop  Offline

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 104
WI
Maybe look at/ride a Can-Am Ryker. Available in both 600/900cc. Both have fully automatic CVT transmission and right side combined braking brake pedal. No handlebar clutch/brake lever or foot shift lever. Purely twist and go. Have ABS/traction control/stability control. Can be had for < $10k WTH..

Re: Instead of Stopping Riding Maybe I Get an MC w/ All Those New Safety Features [Re: 02SE] #5133967
06/14/19 10:20 AM
06/14/19 10:20 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 60
'Murica
AtomicNumber53 Offline
AtomicNumber53  Offline

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 60
'Murica
Originally Posted by 02SE
Ok, I'm curious. What makes shifting a bike unsafe?
It's not about what IS unsafe, but about what CAN BE unsafe. Simply being on 2 wheels can be unsafe, which becomes more unsafe with slippery roads, potholes and other hazards, and especially cagers riding beside us that cannot see or hear us, etc.

When someone downshifts too low, their back tire might skid. When someone doesn't downshift all the way to a stop, they might not be prepared to move when someone's about to rear-end them, or, even worse, they might stall out if they're holding the clutch in while in a higher gear. Shifting can take concentration away from the turn signals, horn, and brakes.... And vice versa. I mean... trail braking requires you to brake and throttle at the same time... that's bad enough without having to downshift as soon as coming out of a curve. Point blank, tho... shifting is not always seamless, because we are humans and make mistakes.

Originally Posted by 02SE
I've been shifting bikes since I was 6. Never had an issue shifting.

This is the definition of being subjective. Step into the shoes of the thousands of ignorant n00bies out there every day who all want to pop wheelies like the guys on YouTube. This is the ONLY reason I could see for someone wanting to shift a bike. I also see that others believe riding motorcycles should be more challenging, because then "everybody would do it", which would mean they would lose their coolness.... Which is, I believe, why scooters have such a bad rap in America.

Some people only ride for fun, and I can see the desire to shift there, as I like to shift my bike on the weekends. But if you're really commuting on your bike, riding every day of the week in all traffic and weather conditions.... And you're a law-abiding citizen that only travels with the flow of traffic... Why on Earth would you want to shift when there are other options that provide far more peace of mind?

With a scooter, I can swerve in and out of traffic without even thinking about what I'm doing. With a motorcycle, OTOH, I have to pay attention to speed/RPMs, as being in the wrong gear or even missing a shift could mean the end of the metaphorical road. But to each his own, of course....

I'm sure there's someone out there who has never missed a shift, only ride on dry pavement during daylight, with 100 ft of space cushionomg them from all other drivers.... But there are so many statistics that show motorcyclists ride like jackasses and/or cannot be seen/heard by other drivers... So they die or get seriously injured at minimum. You might be in the better side of the statistics today, but one day... ya never know!!

Last edited by AtomicNumber53; 06/14/19 10:23 AM.
Re: Instead of Stopping Riding Maybe I Get an MC w/ All Those New Safety Features [Re: AtomicNumber53] #5134016
06/14/19 12:02 PM
06/14/19 12:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,818
The Canyons
02SE Offline
02SE  Offline

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,818
The Canyons
That's an interesting opinion on all the ramifications attributed to having to shift a bike.

I will say that it does take more skill to ride a Motorcycle competently than it does a scooter, or drive a car.

I will also say from having helped instruct riders in how to operate a Motorcycle properly that not all people are cut out to ride.

But IME the percentage of people that tried and still couldn't get the hang of operating a Motorcycle competently, to the point of it being instinctive, is small.

Re: Instead of Stopping Riding Maybe I Get an MC w/ All Those New Safety Features [Re: LoneRanger] #5134095
06/14/19 02:04 PM
06/14/19 02:04 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 21,155
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline

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Posts: 21,155
PNW
^^^ It does take a lot of rider skill to always be in the perfect gear, and to shift and clutch perfectly all the time. I could see how inexperienced riders could get tripped up on trying to be in the right gear all the time or operating the motorcycle in the correct matter when it might really count (ie, ready to bolt out of the way of a zombie in a car, making a safe pass, etc). Like 02SE I've been riding bikes for decades and shifting/clutching is as natural as walking to me, but it takes some time to get to that point for everyone. And every motorcycle is a bit different, so you also need to know your bike to make the best out of it.

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