VOA Nissan Type A, need replacement

[VH45DE]

Nissan Part Number E2901-62U01- Now obsolete in the USA.

I'm hoarding about 4 liters, but I have a small leak from the active pump and will need to do some surgery soon that involves draining the system. So...need a suitable replacement and looking for some suggestions.
Note that the sample tested was produced in 2011, and has been sitting in a steel(?) can for 7+ years, which is my suspicion on the tin (leeched out of the container). Blackstone indicated that tin may have been long ago used as an additive, but I've not heard of this, nor do I understand why it would be a designed additive.
FP seems low to me, but maybe it's because I only sent them a 3oz sample instead of 4oz?

Offhand, Toyota WS ATF looks pretty close on the basic numbers, but the subject fluid is more akin to a hydraulic fluid based on research so far.

Here's the can it comes in along with some properties.

 

[MolaKule]

It could have been Stannous Octoate, an ester of tin, used as a multi-functional metal inhibitor and antioxidant.

In a closed vessel without combustion present, you don't need a high flashpoint hydraulic fluid.

 

[bulwnkl]

Cool!

Could a motorcycle shock (or fork) oil serve as a replacement?

 

[VH45DE]

Originally Posted by MolaKule
It could have been Stannous Octoate, an ester of tin, used as a multi-functional metal inhibitor and antioxidant.

In a closed vessel without combustion present, you don't need a high flashpoint hydraulic fluid.

Thanks for the confirmation of FP. It certainly *could* be there by design, but I've not seen other oils that have this. Is it common in hydraulic oils to have Sn (very few VOAs i've found, so I personally have no reference)?
Also, I should mention that in a Used sample taken from the vehicle, and which I personally know has trace amounts of lubegard red, MMO, and Amsoil STL (but is predominately used nissan type A) the tin read 3ppm. So not sure what to make of that unless Nissan changed the formulation over the years.

Originally Posted by bulwnkl
Cool!

Could a motorcycle shock (or fork) oil serve as a replacement?


Thank you for the suggestion. If you or others have a VOA of fork oil that you could share, that would be most useful.

I have limited experience with STL (#5), and the properties for cSt appear similar, but do not know the additive packs in the STL.

 

[bulwnkl]

My question was as much aimed at eliciting a response from Molakule as anything.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted by VH45DE
Is it common in hydraulic oils to have Sn (very few VOAs i've found, so I personally have no reference)?
Also, I should mention that in a Used sample taken from the vehicle, and which I personally know has trace amounts of lubegard red, MMO, and Amsoil STL (but is predominately used nissan type A) the tin read 3ppm. So not sure what to make of that unless Nissan changed the formulation over the years.


You won't find that additive in modern hydraulic fluids, and yes formula's change all the time.

Why would you mix Lubegard Red, MMO, AMmsoil STL and other junk with the Nissan hydraulic A?

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted by bulwnkl
My question was as much aimed at eliciting a response from Molakule as anything.


Amsoil has some suspension fluids but I would refer you to the Manf. for Application in a Nissan.

https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g1663.pdf

 

[VH45DE]

Originally Posted by MolaKule
Originally Posted by VH45DE
.... in a Used sample taken from the vehicle, and which I personally know has trace amounts of lubegard red, MMO, and Amsoil STL (but is predominately used nissan type A)....


You won't find that additive in modern hydraulic fluids, and yes formula's change all the time.

Why would you mix Lubegard Red, MMO, AMmsoil STL and other junk with the Nissan hydraulic A?

The three things I know of that were mixed with Nissan A:
Lubegard Red 2oz. (~1.0% by system volume) the system, multivalve unit in particular is prone to stiction/shudder of the solenoid actuated spool valves. I recognise that LGR is primarily a friction modifier for ATF, but thought the synthetic sperm whale oil would be beneficial for shudder.
MMO 2oz (~1.0% by system volume) was used for the aromatics to swell the system O-rings. Yeah, I'm not a stop-gap or work-around guy by nature, but sometimes surgery on an old o-ring can be extremely labor intensive and carry collateral risk.
STL (about 10% by system volume) was 'tried' as a possible extender given dwindling supply of type A. I noticed no deleterious effects, and it's been in the system for years. however, I haven't concluded that 100% STL is viable.
I did consult with an Amsoil rep who checked with his tecchies, but had no data on system compatibility. I didn't really expect that they had a "Nissan approval" but figured I'd ask. He didn't offer a VOA on the STL (I asked).
Nissan has no love for what was once their flagship luxury-sport cruiser.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted by VH45DE
Originally Posted by MolaKule

.... in a Used sample taken from the vehicle, and which I personally know has trace amounts of lubegard red, MMO, and Amsoil STL (but is predominately used nissan type A)....


You won't find that additive in modern hydraulic fluids, and yes formula's change all the time.

Why would you mix Lubegard Red, MMO, AMmsoil STL and other junk with the Nissan hydraulic A?



The three things I know of that were mixed with Nissan A:

Originally Posted by VH45DE
Lubegard Red 2oz. (~1.0% by system volume) the system, multivalve unit in particular is prone to stiction/shudder of the solenoid actuated spool valves. I recognise that LGR is primarily a friction modifier for ATF, but thought the synthetic sperm whale oil would be beneficial for shudder.


LubeGard Red is mainly a varnish cleaner with little friction modification.

Originally Posted by VH45DE
MMO 2oz (~1.0% by system volume) was used for the aromatics to swell the system O-rings. Yeah, I'm not a stop-gap or work-around guy by nature, but sometimes surgery on an old o-ring can be extremely labor intensive and carry collateral risk.


After doing an extensive lab analysis no seal conditioners were found in MMO. Don't know where one would have come up with that info.

Originally Posted by VH45DE
STL (about 10% by system volume) was 'tried' as a possible extender given dwindling supply of type A. I noticed no deleterious effects, and it's been in the system for years. however, I haven't concluded that 100% STL is viable.


Yep, a long shot at best.

I think what you need is an ISO 32 or 46 hydraulic oil such as

https://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/134-264-td.pdf

Viscosity comparison Chart

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

As ASTRO14 pointed out in the Hydraulic Fluids thread, the Pentosin product may be a viable alternative with a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.0 cSt@ 100ºC.

http://www.pentosin.net/specsheets/Pentosin_CHF_11S.pdf

 

[VH45DE]

Originally Posted by MolaKule



I think what you need is an ISO 32 or 46 hydraulic oil such as

https://www.schaefferoil.com/documents/134-264-td.pdf

Viscosity comparison Chart

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

As ASTRO14 pointed out in the Hydraulic Fluids thread, the Pentosin product may be a viable alternative with a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.0 cSt@ 100ºC.

http://www.pentosin.net/specsheets/Pentosin_CHF_11S.pdf




Thanks, I was also thinking ISO32, possibly with a little ISO46 blend to get initial cSt to ~6.1. I had also looked at Schaeffer 264, the closest distributor is an hour from me, but I might give him a call. For clarity, is there a reason you advocate 264 over 254?
And, in your experience how shear stable are the 254/264?

 

[MolaKule]

It's just that # 264 is a full synthetic and will tolerate higher temps without severe oxidation.

All are very shear stable in order to pass Vickers and Denison pump tests.

In a hydraulic system about the only shearing that will take place will be in the pump.

 

[VH45DE]

Originally Posted by MolaKule
It's just that # 264 is a full synthetic and will tolerate higher temps without severe oxidation.

All are very shear stable in order to pass Vickers and Denison pump tests.

In a hydraulic system about the only shearing that will take place will be in the pump.

copy all, thanks