AWD with Summers vs FWD with winters

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Originally Posted by Treadstone
Well, it's your $$. But spending the $$ for snow tires for one week of snow a year? Foolish.

It's not foolish at all if it saves me from an accident and having to pay insurance deductible.

Besides, while I'm using my winter tires, I am not putting any wear on my summer tires, so it's not like I am buying more tires than you are. While you go through two sets of all-seasons, I go through one set of summers and one set of winters during the same time.
 
Originally Posted by pandus13
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by edyvw
I can tell you that Nokian R2 on my wife's Tiguan are absolutely misreable in rain.

I continue to be puzzled by your experience with R2, as it does not resemble my experience with R2 on wife's Q5 at all.
smile.gif


I remember they performed well in the last CO snowstorm.
Now, I think his where older stock?
My discontinued Nokian Entyre (early 2016 made) all-seasons, developed small tiny little cracks on sidewall just before the blocks area. I wander about our local area using liquid brine this winter....may more corrosive then salt?
My CS5 in my Yaris did that after 3+ years
Also, managed to slide lateral (at 20 mph) taking a right turn in rain.
But also had 6 hours of rain which turned into snow and performed well until snow hit 3+ inches...

Yes, in deep snow, ice, they are absolute monster. Rain and dry, it is one of the worst snow tires I had.
 
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by edyvw
I can tell you that Nokian R2 on my wife's Tiguan are absolutely misreable in rain.
I continue to be puzzled by your experience with R2, as it does not resemble my experience with R2 on wife's Q5 at all.
smile.gif



IDK< but since Hankook W300 I did not have a tire that has such extreme differences in various weather phenomenons.
 
Originally Posted by AuthorEditor
Sure, winter tires are great, but you don't need them 90% of the time if you have good all-season tires and you are a normal driver. In the Northeast most of us do very little driving on snow-covered roads like that with no treatment. In New York the plows are out before the first snow starts treating the roads, and then they go 24/7 nonstop until the roads are clear again. "Winter" driving often means slippery conditions, but not pure snow. The road is likely to be a mix of bare pavement, thin snow, slush, water, and ice. With care I regularly commuted in that slop for decades in all sorts of vehicles with just all seasons. The first hint that the roads are getting bad is usually a 4WD truck or SUV in the ditch because they were going too fast.


Depends where in NY. If you're in the boonies, such as many small towns in Orange County, the plows don't even plow the local roads, so studded tires in those parts are common.

If you're in a ski town, the person holding up traffic is the tourist from out of town on all-seasons.
 
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Originally Posted by painfx
Originally Posted by AuthorEditor
Sure, winter tires are great, but you don't need them 90% of the time if you have good all-season tires and you are a normal driver. In the Northeast most of us do very little driving on snow-covered roads like that with no treatment. In New York the plows are out before the first snow starts treating the roads, and then they go 24/7 nonstop until the roads are clear again. "Winter" driving often means slippery conditions, but not pure snow. The road is likely to be a mix of bare pavement, thin snow, slush, water, and ice. With care I regularly commuted in that slop for decades in all sorts of vehicles with just all seasons. The first hint that the roads are getting bad is usually a 4WD truck or SUV in the ditch because they were going too fast.

I am from the East Coast, can you recommend a good all season tires can handle light snow?

My daughter has General Altimax RT43s on her Impreza and I have been impressed with them in winter conditions. She is a student and doesn't "have" to drive during storms, so I am OK with her having good all seasons and no snows. I drive in all conditions and have snow tires (Hakka R2s now, which have to come off as soon as it starts getting warm). I am actually also using RT43s as my "summer" tires, somewhat price driven as I was feeling cheap when I bought them, and have found to my disappointment that they are pretty much no fun at all in dry conditions...total lack of sportiness. Had Goodyear Eagle Sport A/S tires before that I liked a lot better, couldn't find a good deal on them when I was shopping for a new set.
My wife's Avalon is a terrible car all around for winter driving (FWD, torque steer, totally numb steering), but she seems happier with her RT43s than with the Michelin MXV4s she had before when it is slippery out. Yes, we have 3 sets of RT43s in our family...
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Treadstone
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by Treadstone
a dedicated set of winter tires that are absolutely dangerous the rest of the year.

Tell me more about it.
Nobody is advocating that you run winter tires all year long.

Most people around here put their snow tires on in November and take them off in April. All for maybe, maybe, one week of snow, unless they go into the mountains for skiing. So that means the REST of the time, they are driving on inferior tires when it is 50*F and raining.....
And yet, with my vehicles and proper, good all season/all weather tires, we are good 12 months of the year, and have no issues going anywhere in the snow we do get....

Depends which winter tires.
I can tell you that Nokian R2 on my wife's Tiguan are absolutely misreable in rain.
Michelin Xi2 on Toyota will shame many all seasons in rain, and are better than Bridgestone Driveguard all seasons I got on SIenna in any temperature.
Of course, they would wear out fast, but just saying.

I didn't notice rain problems in general with my R2 SUVs, but they are pretty scary as far as braking goes when it gets warm (above 40s). I take them off early and feel OK about is as my "summer" RT43s have decent winter capabilities.
 
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by Treadstone
Well, it's your $$. But spending the $$ for snow tires for one week of snow a year? Foolish.

It's not foolish at all if it saves me from an accident and having to pay insurance deductible.

Besides, while I'm using my winter tires, I am not putting any wear on my summer tires, so it's not like I am buying more tires than you are. While you go through two sets of all-seasons, I go through one set of summers and one set of winters during the same time.





Depends on where you live.....here we get a week of snow at most. Two if it is a snowmaggedon year. So the rest of the time you would be chewing up those underperforming winter tires for nothing.....
 
Originally Posted by Treadstone
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by Treadstone
Well, it's your $$. But spending the $$ for snow tires for one week of snow a year? Foolish.

It's not foolish at all if it saves me from an accident and having to pay insurance deductible.

Besides, while I'm using my winter tires, I am not putting any wear on my summer tires, so it's not like I am buying more tires than you are. While you go through two sets of all-seasons, I go through one set of summers and one set of winters during the same time.





Depends on where you live.....here we get a week of snow at most. Two if it is a snowmaggedon year. So the rest of the time you would be chewing up those underperforming winter tires for nothing.....


That's what all-weather tires are for.
 
Years ago, after we moved out to WA, my mother insisted that my dad get her studded snows for her 82 VW Rabbit for winter because they lived up on a hill. Well, after two winters of no snow, he had to have tubes put in the tires because they would no longer hold air - the lack of snow and constant driving on the bare pavement had driven the studs thru the carcass.
 
Having been down this exact road with new later model Subarus with horrible factory tires, these tires totally negated the benefits of AWD for these vehicles in my winter conditions. It was almost as if the AWD wasn't there. Any drive configuration is better in the winter with snow tires today.

I think we got by decades ago with big RWD cars and the early FWD ones because tires were narrow, softer with lots of sidewall. That's not the case today.
 
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Originally Posted by Treadstone
Originally Posted by UG_Passat



That's what all-weather tires are for.



Exactly what I have been saying.

FYI, all-weather is a separate category from all-season. Not sure if that's where UG_Passat was going with this.
 
I have driven winter tires in 50 degree and higher temperature.... it really depends on the type of winter tires you're driving.

A Nordic Studdable (like a General Altimax Arctic) and Studless (like a Blizzak WS-series, Michelin Xice Xi3) tend to have poorer hydroplaning abilities and grip when the road is cold/dry and cold/wet, since they are design more for snow/ice surfaces.

A Central European (or performance winter) such as a Michelin Pilot Alpin, Blizzak LM-series are made for cold/dry & cold/wet, and sacrifice the snow/ice traction. I've used the cheaper Korean versions for this purpose, though survived many blizzards in a lowered FWD car until the hill gets too steep, such as the Hankook Icebear W300 and Nexen Winguard Sport.

So you can buy winter tires that fit your purpose better.

Then there is the All-weather tires, which are more like a Central European tire, but has UTQG ratings like an all-season bridges that gap, which I have used the Nokian WR G3 on the old lowered FWD car... and soon to buy the Nokian WR G4 SUV for the AWD Cute-Ute. Perfect for LA weather during the work week and going to Big Bear or Mammoth on weekends.
 
There's got to be a trade-off with these "All weather tires" though. Cost, lower life expectancy, not quite as good as dedicated snows, etc..
 
The Nokian WRGs are perfect for Boston area driving as they are tremendous during winter months and fine the rest of the year.

More so if you're not putting a ton of miles on a set. Otherwise I like the eNTYRE 2.0s thus far.
 
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Originally Posted by JTK
There's got to be a trade-off with these "All weather tires" though. Cost, lower life expectancy, not quite as good as dedicated snows, etc..

There is always a trade-off. Summer performance of all-weather tires is not as good as all-season tires, but not as bad as winter tires. And winter handling is better than all-season tires, but not as good as dedicated winter tires. Kind of an in-between category between winter tires and all-season tires, but it can be used all year long, and usually has treadlife warranty.
 
Originally Posted by JTK
There's got to be a trade-off with these "All weather tires" though. Cost, lower life expectancy, not quite as good as dedicated snows, etc..


Lower life expectancy: Depends on the tire. The Quatrac's wear rating isn't that good (400). Nokian's are about 500, and Goodyear is higher (700)..

Cost, depends on the tire. The Goodyears are too expensive for me. Nokians are more reasonably priced.

Not quite as good as dedicated snows... depends on which type you're comparing to:
Nordic studless? Not as good
Nordic studdable (w/o studs)? Better than.
Performance winter? Probably a wash.

Dedicated snows are not required to list UTQG ratings.
 
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In my opinion there is no big difference between all weather and winter performance tires.
I would love to see some direct comparison but this is what I think.

KrzyÅ›
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Wolf359
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by AuthorEditor
Sure, winter tires are great, but you don't need them 90% of the time if you have good all-season tires and you are a normal driver. In the Northeast most of us do very little driving on snow-covered roads like that with no treatment. In New York the plows are out before the first snow starts treating the roads, and then they go 24/7 nonstop until the roads are clear again. "Winter" driving often means slippery conditions, but not pure snow. The road is likely to be a mix of bare pavement, thin snow, slush, water, and ice. With care I regularly commuted in that slop for decades in all sorts of vehicles with just all seasons. The first hint that the roads are getting bad is usually a 4WD truck or SUV in the ditch because they were going too fast.

What about 10% of the time?
I have both vehicles on winter tires, and trust me, Colorado is much better in winter than anything in the Northeast. But, tell me what happens when 2 year old runs 105 degrees temperature at 3am and outside is blizzard?
Most of the time when I actually needed winter tires to stop, it was hard braking on green light bcs someone who does not need winter tires 90% of the time could not stop on the red light.


Well you just stay home the other 10% of the time. If you need to travel in a blizzard and it's a medical emergency, you call an ambulance.

And then I have to pull out of snow drift ambulance. It is enough I have to take kid to emergency room, I do not want to be responsible for ambulance crew too.
You know that saying: if you wanna do it right, do it yourself. When it comes to fever and child, personal transport is most efficient. Now, injury would be different set of issues.
You just stay home 10% of time. WHat if I do not want to stay home? What if I decide to get coffee? Or go to lunch? Life does not stop bcs. of a snow or ice.


I guess it all depends on where you live. I could walk to my local emergency room. So I guess I don't mean stay home 10% of the time, just stay off the roads 10% of the time. When the weather is that bad around here, places that serve coffee, lunch are closed. Normally everything gets plowed pretty quick, there's only a couple of hours during a storm when it might be hard to travel, especially when there's a blizzard. When it's that bad, even if you've got great tires, it still might make sense to stay off the roads, let the road crews do their job and don't risk getting into an accident with someone else who may not have great tires.
 
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