Why hasn't someone made a more efficient filter?

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Patman

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I'm curious as to why no manufacturers out there have made an oil filter than is even more efficient than what we currently have, let's just say something that's 99% efficient down to 10 or 15 microns instead of the current best which seems to be around 99% at 20 microns. Surely the technology must exist.
 
Is more filtration really needed? Do engines fail because existing filters don't filter enough? Will more efficient filters restrict flow too much?
 
The cost would be through the roof. Plus the larger media would require a larger
'can' to meet oil flow requirements. Many engines don't have room for a giant filter can.


My 2¢
 
Because it's truly not necessary ? What's the difference between 10 microns and 20 microns ? And I'm only asking these two questions: 1) At what level will the filter trap additives ? 2) Will flow be (too) restricted ?

Cost will be a factor too. It might cost substantially more while there's no need for it.
 
Originally Posted by CT8
What is the need ?



Maybe this.

Miles to first overhaul.jpg
 
I thought that was what By-pass filters were made for.

There is a trade-off between particle filtering capabilities and cost.
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Will more efficient filters restrict flow too much?

Considering how well the Fram Ultra flows in it's current form, couldn't they just tweak that media a little bit in order to filter even better, while not compromising flow by much?

Originally Posted by CT8
What is the need ?

I'm mainly just curious as to why they don't exist, from a technical standpoint. But I'm also wondering why someone wouldn't do this and market the heck out of it in order to grab a bigger slice of the DYI oil change market. Performance enthusiasts would snap them up, even though most of them probably won't see the long term benefits of finer filtration.

I've always believed that the more efficient the better, even if it's overkill for most people since they trade their cars in long before the engine wears out.
 
Originally Posted by MolaKule
I thought that was what By-pass filters were made for.

There is a trade-off between particle filtering capabilities and cost.
smile.gif



True, but even if they charged $15 or $20 (as opposed to the $10 for the Ultra) they could still be popular.

As far as bypass filtration goes, I think the complexity of it scares a lot of people away. Having a simple spin on filter that is super efficient would be more user friendly.
 
Originally Posted by dwendt44
The cost would be through the roof. Plus the larger media would require a larger
'can' to meet oil flow requirements. Many engines don't have room for a giant filter can.

My 2¢

This. There's simply no room and it's not needed. Insufficient filtration is no longer a failure point.
 
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
This. There's simply no room and it's not needed. Insufficient filtration is no longer a failure point.

But maybe we need to think of it in terms of not the failure point, but keeping the engine running perfectly for the entire time you own the car. If finer filtration means the engine stays "as good as new" for a longer period, isn't that worth it? In other words, maybe that engine with 100k on it now doesn't burn any oil, instead of using a quart every 5k if it was slightly worn. Maybe it's making 98% of it's original horsepower instead of being down to 90%. Maybe it still gets the same MPG as new, instead of it dropping by a few %.
 
Wasn't this the idea behind the Microgreen filters?
Integrated bypass to filter out the tiny particles while maintaining full flow in one modestly sized package?
I guess the question is if they actually did what they said...I know there was some controversy about the end product possibly being a total [censored] of the original intent and the idea man behind it supposedly being forced out of the company.
 
1st: oil filter is not the limiting factor of vehicle life, the current cheap oil filter is good enough before other things kill the car (rust, transmission, head gasket, turbo, accident, exterior, fashion, etc)

2nd: we already have toilet paper bypass filter, most people decided it is not worth the trouble and cost.

3rd: you still need to change the oil and add additives, so why bother. You also have to add oil to deal with burning, etc.

The OEM can make the filter 2x or 3x as big, but they still get changed when it is not filled up, so they shrink it to make it cheaper to make, cheaper to ship, cheaper to stock, and cheaper to dispose.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by dwendt44
The cost would be through the roof. Plus the larger media would require a larger
'can' to meet oil flow requirements. Many engines don't have room for a giant filter can.


My 2¢


Agreed....we're at the point of diminishing returns, it's too costly to get better filtration in a single unit.


That said, there ARE better filtration systems out there, but to get it you've got to get into a bypass setup.
 
Easy answer: Because there isn't an economic case for someone to make money doing so. If there were, someone would already be doing it.

Sure, maybe there is a media that would increase filtering dramatically without changing the package requirements to meet flow rates, bpyass pressures, etc... But if it costs a boatload more, are people willing to spend enough money on it for the manufacturer to break even? Make money?

Or, if the package has to be redesigned due to needing more filter media that doesn't fit in the original package size, who's going to spend the design dollars on it? Recoup the cost and testing to see if the redesigned package actually fits in all of its usual applications?

Whether it is a benefit to the end user doesn't matter if the manufacturer can't price it at a price point to make money and actually have people buy it.

And that's where the bypass stuff finds its niche - it fits multiple applications, making a one size fits all program much more cost effective for those who want it...
 
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Will more efficient filters restrict flow too much?


Considering how well the Fram Ultra flows in it's current form, couldn't they just tweak that media a little bit in order to filter even better, while not compromising flow by much?



How WELL do Fram Ultra's flow ? Good enough seems to be the standard answer, as Fram makes no claims about flow in the Ultra line.

They DO, however, advertise flow in their RACING filter line up ... from Fram's website

" ... Low-restriction racing media designed for high oil flow. The media features 94% efficiency @20 microns for excellent engine protection. "

And, where flow is optimized, filtration is compromised. Not sure there is any way around that.
 
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
This. There's simply no room and it's not needed. Insufficient filtration is no longer a failure point.

But maybe we need to think of it in terms of not the failure point, but keeping the engine running perfectly for the entire time you own the car. If finer filtration means the engine stays "as good as new" for a longer period, isn't that worth it? In other words, maybe that engine with 100k on it now doesn't burn any oil, instead of using a quart every 5k if it was slightly worn. Maybe it's making 98% of it's original horsepower instead of being down to 90%. Maybe it still gets the same MPG as new, instead of it dropping by a few %.


A lot of "MAYBE"? It is called the point of diminishing return.
In an engineering design, we usually talk about relative instead of absolute.

Yes, people MAYBE (again) will buy a $20 filter but the segment of population that is educated enough on this topic is probably too small for them to make profit.
While, you can probably see that the Orange Can is selling like hot cake.

Originally Posted by PandaBear
1st: oil filter is not the limiting factor of vehicle life, the current cheap oil filter is good enough before other things kill the car (rust, transmission, head gasket, turbo, accident, exterior, fashion, etc)

2nd: we already have toilet paper bypass filter, most people decided it is not worth the trouble and cost.

3rd: you still need to change the oil and add additives, so why bother. You also have to add oil to deal with burning, etc.

The OEM can make the filter 2x or 3x as big, but they still get changed when it is not filled up, so they shrink it to make it cheaper to make, cheaper to ship, cheaper to stock, and cheaper to dispose.


I agree with this.
 
With proper maintenance and a wee bit of luck engines out last the first and second owners of the vehicles. What are we going to gain? Patman did you wear out your last vette? I have never worn out a vehicles engine bought new..
 
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