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Why hasn't someone made a more efficient filter? #5106820
05/16/19 11:36 AM
05/16/19 11:36 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,856
Oakville, Ontario
Patman Offline OP
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Patman  Offline OP
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Oakville, Ontario
I'm curious as to why no manufacturers out there have made an oil filter than is even more efficient than what we currently have, let's just say something that's 99% efficient down to 10 or 15 microns instead of the current best which seems to be around 99% at 20 microns. Surely the technology must exist.


2018 Corvette, 13k, M1 ESP Formula 5w30 & NAPA Gold
2006 Civic EX Coupe, 151k, PUP 5w20 & Fram Ultra
2010 BMW 328i X-Drive,116k, GC 0w40 & Fram Ultra

Re: Why hasn't someone made a more efficient filter? [Re: Patman] #5106823
05/16/19 11:40 AM
05/16/19 11:40 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,627
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline

Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 37,627
Great Lakes
Is more filtration really needed? Do engines fail because existing filters don't filter enough? Will more efficient filters restrict flow too much?



'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (PUP 0W-40 SRT)
Re: Why hasn't someone made a more efficient filter? [Re: Patman] #5106824
05/16/19 11:40 AM
05/16/19 11:40 AM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,133
Central Wisconsin
dwendt44 Online content
dwendt44  Online Content

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 4,133
Central Wisconsin
The cost would be through the roof. Plus the larger media would require a larger
'can' to meet oil flow requirements. Many engines don't have room for a giant filter can.


My 2¢


There's no such thing as:
Too big of a battery,
Too large of a gas tank,
or too loud of a horn,
or too bright headlights.
Re: Why hasn't someone made a more efficient filter? [Re: Patman] #5106825
05/16/19 11:42 AM
05/16/19 11:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,813
Idaho
CT8 Offline
CT8  Offline

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,813
Idaho
What is the need ?


2015 F150 2.7
2018 F350 6.2
Re: Why hasn't someone made a more efficient filter? [Re: Patman] #5106827
05/16/19 11:43 AM
05/16/19 11:43 AM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,022
Ohio
hallstevenson Offline
hallstevenson  Offline

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,022
Ohio
Because it's truly not necessary ? What's the difference between 10 microns and 20 microns ? And I'm only asking these two questions: 1) At what level will the filter trap additives ? 2) Will flow be (too) restricted ?

Cost will be a factor too. It might cost substantially more while there's no need for it.

Re: Why hasn't someone made a more efficient filter? [Re: CT8] #5106845
05/16/19 12:03 PM
05/16/19 12:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,910
Wet side WA
JohnnyJohnson Offline
JohnnyJohnson  Offline

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,910
Wet side WA
Originally Posted by CT8
What is the need ?



Maybe this.

Miles to first overhaul.jpg

2004 Corolla 134004
Out: EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 7156 Miles
In: Havoline Pro DS 10w-30 Purolator PureOne 3-14-19 129693
2006 Duramax 75175
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73705 4-22-18
Re: Why hasn't someone made a more efficient filter? [Re: Patman] #5106847
05/16/19 12:05 PM
05/16/19 12:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 271
st louis, mo
brages Offline
brages  Offline

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 271
st louis, mo
The "toilet paper" bypass filters claim to remove extremely small particles at a low flow rate... https://www.frantzfilters.com/

Re: Why hasn't someone made a more efficient filter? [Re: Patman] #5106851
05/16/19 12:08 PM
05/16/19 12:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 20,220
Iowegia - USA
MolaKule Offline
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MolaKule  Offline
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Iowegia - USA
I thought that was what By-pass filters were made for.

There is a trade-off between particle filtering capabilities and cost. smile


"Science is a body of knowledge, a 'recipe', as it were, for reality. The totality of science is a collection of hard-earned nuggets, using math as a language of expression." Chip Cohen
Re: Why hasn't someone made a more efficient filter? [Re: CT8] #5106852
05/16/19 12:08 PM
05/16/19 12:08 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,856
Oakville, Ontario
Patman Offline OP
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Patman  Offline OP
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Posts: 21,856
Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Will more efficient filters restrict flow too much?

Considering how well the Fram Ultra flows in it's current form, couldn't they just tweak that media a little bit in order to filter even better, while not compromising flow by much?

Originally Posted by CT8
What is the need ?

I'm mainly just curious as to why they don't exist, from a technical standpoint. But I'm also wondering why someone wouldn't do this and market the heck out of it in order to grab a bigger slice of the DYI oil change market. Performance enthusiasts would snap them up, even though most of them probably won't see the long term benefits of finer filtration.

I've always believed that the more efficient the better, even if it's overkill for most people since they trade their cars in long before the engine wears out.

Re: Why hasn't someone made a more efficient filter? [Re: MolaKule] #5106853
05/16/19 12:10 PM
05/16/19 12:10 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,856
Oakville, Ontario
Patman Offline OP
Global Moderator
Patman  Offline OP
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Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted by MolaKule
I thought that was what By-pass filters were made for.

There is a trade-off between particle filtering capabilities and cost. smile


True, but even if they charged $15 or $20 (as opposed to the $10 for the Ultra) they could still be popular.

As far as bypass filtration goes, I think the complexity of it scares a lot of people away. Having a simple spin on filter that is super efficient would be more user friendly.

Re: Why hasn't someone made a more efficient filter? [Re: dwendt44] #5106859
05/16/19 12:17 PM
05/16/19 12:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,570
Atlanta,GA
BMWTurboDzl Offline
BMWTurboDzl  Offline

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 3,570
Atlanta,GA
Originally Posted by dwendt44
The cost would be through the roof. Plus the larger media would require a larger
'can' to meet oil flow requirements. Many engines don't have room for a giant filter can.

My 2¢

This. There's simply no room and it's not needed. Insufficient filtration is no longer a failure point.


“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: Why hasn't someone made a more efficient filter? [Re: BMWTurboDzl] #5106878
05/16/19 12:52 PM
05/16/19 12:52 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,856
Oakville, Ontario
Patman Offline OP
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Patman  Offline OP
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Posts: 21,856
Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
This. There's simply no room and it's not needed. Insufficient filtration is no longer a failure point.

But maybe we need to think of it in terms of not the failure point, but keeping the engine running perfectly for the entire time you own the car. If finer filtration means the engine stays "as good as new" for a longer period, isn't that worth it? In other words, maybe that engine with 100k on it now doesn't burn any oil, instead of using a quart every 5k if it was slightly worn. Maybe it's making 98% of it's original horsepower instead of being down to 90%. Maybe it still gets the same MPG as new, instead of it dropping by a few %.

Re: Why hasn't someone made a more efficient filter? [Re: Patman] #5106884
05/16/19 12:57 PM
05/16/19 12:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,367
New England
Virtus_Probi Offline
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Posts: 5,367
New England
Wasn't this the idea behind the Microgreen filters?
Integrated bypass to filter out the tiny particles while maintaining full flow in one modestly sized package?
I guess the question is if they actually did what they said...I know there was some controversy about the end product possibly being a total [censored] of the original intent and the idea man behind it supposedly being forced out of the company.


2014 Forester XT, 100000 miles
Last Change;
M1 10W30 HM SN+
Tokyo Roki 15208AA170 filter
Re: Why hasn't someone made a more efficient filter? [Re: Virtus_Probi] #5106910
05/16/19 01:22 PM
05/16/19 01:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 9,544
Texas
4WD Online confused
4WD  Online Confused

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 9,544
Texas
Whatever happened to those … any users still here ?

Re: Why hasn't someone made a more efficient filter? [Re: Patman] #5106927
05/16/19 01:44 PM
05/16/19 01:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 15,262
Silicon Valley
PandaBear Offline
PandaBear  Offline

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Posts: 15,262
Silicon Valley
1st: oil filter is not the limiting factor of vehicle life, the current cheap oil filter is good enough before other things kill the car (rust, transmission, head gasket, turbo, accident, exterior, fashion, etc)

2nd: we already have toilet paper bypass filter, most people decided it is not worth the trouble and cost.

3rd: you still need to change the oil and add additives, so why bother. You also have to add oil to deal with burning, etc.

The OEM can make the filter 2x or 3x as big, but they still get changed when it is not filled up, so they shrink it to make it cheaper to make, cheaper to ship, cheaper to stock, and cheaper to dispose.

Last edited by PandaBear; 05/16/19 01:46 PM.

"You keep asking questions PandaBear and you'll end up a vegetarian like my wife" - Camu Mahubah
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