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If/when electrics take over #5105622 05/15/19 12:22 AM
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ShutdownCorner Offline OP
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The price of gas would plummet due to lack of demand. Meaning, gas cars would make a comeback. Or at least be relevant.

Unless there’s incentives to stay away from gas, I don’t see gas disappearing.

Re: If/when electrics take over [Re: ShutdownCorner] #5105636 05/15/19 01:03 AM
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Gasbuggy Offline
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Very possible, also, you may see some gas applied taxes switch to mileage taxes since electric cars don't use fuel but contribute just as much to use and degradation of public roads.


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Re: If/when electrics take over [Re: ShutdownCorner] #5105663 05/15/19 03:45 AM
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I noticed cities are trying to take a role in deciding if ICE engines will be allowed. I think there will plenty of court challenges.


If you want the job done right......do it yourself.
Re: If/when electrics take over [Re: ShutdownCorner] #5105703 05/15/19 05:15 AM
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BMWTurboDzl Offline
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Originally Posted by ShutdownCorner
The price of gas would plummet due to lack of demand. Meaning, gas cars would make a comeback. Or at least be relevant.

Unless there’s incentives to stay away from gas, I don’t see gas disappearing.


Not likely. Gas stations in urban/suburban are going to lose a ton of walk-in traffic as consumers and businesses convert to gas/hybrid or EV simply because the consumer will have fewer reasons to stop. Consequently less of them will survive which will drive down the number of locations. You'd still have them along the highways though because EV just can't go the distance and for the lack of charging infrastructure. Fast charging will never happen. It requires too much tech to make it consumer friendly in terms of ease of use, safety, and cost.


Last edited by BMWTurboDzl; 05/15/19 05:16 AM.

“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: If/when electrics take over [Re: ShutdownCorner] #5105713 05/15/19 05:28 AM
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I suspect eventually ICE will be outlawed for most of us, with some limited use of fossil fuels for specialized applications such as police and ambulance vehicles that need to be able to drive and run for indefinite periods of time in all weathers. But, they will fuel up at base stations that won't be available to the general public. We will gradually get to that stage with more and more disincentives to driving ICE vehicles. Big businesses and state agencies may prohibit any ICE vehicles in their fleets and in their parking lots. Certain cities may start to prohibit them. Eventually, toll charges on highways will be through the roof if you are driving an ICE vehicle. After awhile it will be just too costly and difficult for the average person to drive one.

Re: If/when electrics take over [Re: ShutdownCorner] #5105720 05/15/19 05:42 AM
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Electric can't take over. At least not anytime in my lifetime. There would need to be MAJOR investment in the grid and power generation. And I don't see any will to do that.

California is talking about rolling blackouts this year because they can't afford to maintain their rightofways against wildfires.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...o-dark-this-summer-and-most-aren-t-ready

Here on the east coast we are most likely losing 2 more nuke plants on top of the 2 we just lost. 3 Mile Island is shutting down and Millstone only has 10 years left. And the ancient grid can barely deal with the mass adoption of AC. Every summer more and more old transformer explode on hot days. Imagine everyone plugging in their cars at the same time after work?

Last edited by CrAlt; 05/15/19 05:43 AM.
Re: If/when electrics take over [Re: ShutdownCorner] #5105730 05/15/19 06:04 AM
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69GTX Offline
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And it's not like electric cars are close to being environmentally friendly since >60% of the energy to recharge those batteries is still coming from fossil fuels. There is no sizable amount of "clean" energy plants waiting to be built to replace that power structure....certainly not in 12 yrs. Solar and wind have their own environmental problems. The environmental cost to recycle huge electric car batteries is not negligible...nor clean. And the biggest "surprise" is that since we don't have a bubble around the US, the more heavily polluted air from other continents eventually mixes with our air.


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Re: If/when electrics take over [Re: 69GTX] #5105761 05/15/19 06:53 AM
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BMWTurboDzl Offline
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Originally Posted by 69GTX
And it's not like electric cars are close to being environmentally friendly since >60% of the energy to recharge those batteries is still coming from fossil fuels. There is no sizable amount of "clean" energy plants waiting to be built to replace that power structure....certainly not in 12 yrs. Solar and wind have their own environmental problems. The environmental cost to recycle huge electric car batteries is not negligible...nor clean. And the biggest "surprise" is that since we don't have a bubble around the US, the more heavily polluted air from other continents eventually mixes with our air.



This argument doesn't hold as much water as it used to being that coal power generation has been in a steep decline and replaced with NatGas. Especially in dense urban areas where the overwhelming majority of vehicles are located.


“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: If/when electrics take over [Re: ShutdownCorner] #5105785 05/15/19 07:24 AM
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Gasoline would go UP as demands goes down. It would not be profitable to sell it. Already seeing this in the hobby industry as electrics take over.

Last edited by millerbl00; 05/15/19 07:25 AM.
Re: If/when electrics take over [Re: BMWTurboDzl] #5105792 05/15/19 07:31 AM
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Linctex Offline
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Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

This argument doesn't hold as much water as it used to ........


HINT: coal is NOT going away anytime soon. No matter how/what green-earthers scream out - it's here to stay for quite some time.


https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/?page=us_energy_home


You obviously haven't been looking very closely at charts like this:

[Linked Image]


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: If/when electrics take over [Re: Linctex] #5105815 05/15/19 08:11 AM
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BMWTurboDzl Offline
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Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl

This argument doesn't hold as much water as it used to ........


HINT: coal is NOT going away anytime soon. No matter how/what green-earthers scream out - it's here to stay for quite some time.


https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/?page=us_energy_home


You obviously haven't been looking very closely at charts like this:

[Linked Image]







Actually I have better charts. Your figures are nationwide which isn't relevant because you have to drill down to individual region. Take the State of California for example. California has the most automobile registrations in the country and almost twice that of the next two states below them (Texas,Fla). California has no coal plants. Fla/Texas have some coal but the majority are in the less populous areas of the country. As I said there are significantly more vehicles in areas w/out coal power than there are in areas which have coal power as their sole energy source.

https://www.statista.com/statistics...gistered-automobiles-in-the-us-by-state/


[Linked Image]


“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: If/when electrics take over [Re: ShutdownCorner] #5105821 05/15/19 08:16 AM
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California has the idea of not building power plants in their state but in neighboring states.

California is very dependent on hydro from the PNW, nuclear from Arizona and water from the Colorado. Maybe it’s time they became self sufficient.


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Re: If/when electrics take over [Re: PimTac] #5105832 05/15/19 08:25 AM
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BMWTurboDzl Offline
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Originally Posted by PimTac
California has the idea of not building power plants in their state but in neighboring states.

California is very dependent on hydro from the PNW, nuclear from Arizona and water from the Colorado. Maybe it’s time they became self sufficient.


The energy market is highly regulated at both the state and federal level and the Federal Govt owns all navigable waterways as well as some hydro power (ex, Hoover Dam, Grand Coulee). That being said California is blessed with good climate for solar and changes in their building codes are going to result in more residential solar. Residential solar along with storage will go a long way towards energy independence.


“It took untold generations to get you where you are. A little gratitude might be in order. If you’re going to insist on bending the world to your way, you better have your reasons.”

435i
Re: If/when electrics take over [Re: ShutdownCorner] #5105835 05/15/19 08:32 AM
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Electrics won't take over in most of the people here's lifetime.

In large, cold areas (read: most of NE NA) battery range in cold temps makes them useless.

In hotter areas, grid and capacity problems mentioned will keep them a limited 'toy' for the wealthy.


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Re: If/when electrics take over [Re: ShutdownCorner] #5105849 05/15/19 08:46 AM
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I'll age out and die well before electric cars become the norm and gas stations go away.

The reason is battery energy density. 1500 pounds of battery to get a real world 220 mile highway range is what we have today. Contrast that with an Altima, with over 600 mile real world 90 mph range on 96 pounds of gas. (ask me how I know...... )

[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Energy_density.svg[/img]


Last edited by Cujet; 05/15/19 08:47 AM.

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