Small Engines.... Robin / Subaru vs. Honda ?

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: JimmyChainsaw
Please have a look at this web site;http://www.subarupower-global.com/.It clearly states that the power products division of FHI is closing.
My understanding is that Subaru will license their name to other companies to manufacture engines.This I believe is the case with Ryobi who sell mowers in our market with Subaru engines on them.The spare parts are only available from Ryobi.


Then we are down to 2 brands.

that link didnt work. Are they licensing engine tech, or just a name?



UD

 

[JimmyChainsaw]

Just a name.The fact the part numbers resemble Honda numbers makes me suspect they are made by Jialing-Honda Motors Co Ltd.
There are now two reputable Chinese engine manufacturers in our market,namely ;Lifan and Loncin.I suspect these two companies manufacture lots of engines for other suppliers.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: JimmyChainsaw
Just a name.The fact the part numbers resemble Honda numbers makes me suspect they are made by Jialing-Honda Motors Co Ltd.
There are now two reputable Chinese engine manufacturers in our market,namely ;Lifan and Loncin.I suspect these two companies manufacture lots of engines for other suppliers.


Sad...

Seen some pretty decent LIfan parts and some junk, never seen anything loncin I know of.

UD

 

[billt460]

So.... At this point it would appear if you buy either a new Robin / Subaru, or Honda engine, the chances are you are getting a Chinese manufactured product. And not one made entirely in Japan, correct?

 

[meep]

If they are both chi-built, I'd be on the honda purely because of parts availability.

I had a rob-subaru engine about 10 yrs ago and if anything it had an edge on the honda in use of more metal - it compared well to GX series with the lined bore, chain-driven cam IIRC. One particularly interesting feature was a stepped timing curve that had a low-rpm advance and a different high-rpm advance. I don't remember the step-point rpm.

But, the difference in real world use? I'm not sure I could really tell without bench-testing and observing both side-by-side. Honda sets the bar.

-m

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: JimmyChainsaw
Please have a look at this web site;http://www.subarupower-global.com/. It clearly states that the power products division of FHI is closing.
My understanding is that Subaru will license their name to other companies to manufacture engines. This I believe is the case with Ryobi who sell mowers in our market with Subaru engines on them. The spare parts are only available from Ryobi.


And they don't do a lot of advertising about this when it's happening. It's totally up to the consumer to research it. I worked for McCulloch Corporation in Lake Havasu City back in the 90's, after NAFTA was passed. They went under after investing heavily in a manufacturing plant in Hermosillo, Mexico, that they could never get to operate at a profit. After they went bankrupt, the McCulloch name was sold to a Chinese business investor. As a result everything manufactured and produced today under the name McCulloch, has nothing to do with the original company, which no longer exists. This of course was not advertised. So people purchasing McCulloch power products today because of the name alone, are being completely misled. Unless they do a lot of research. Most don't or won't.

I understand that Robin / Subaru and Honda are very much in business. And chose to move manufacturing there due to cost. Which is a far different scenario than what McCulloch, and several other companies have gone through by going bankrupt, and simply selling off their name to whomever. All in a last ditch effort to generate a few dollars before becoming non existent. But it doesn't change the fact that Robin / Subaru and Honda engines, which most everyone associates with being a Japanese manufactured and assembled product, are not any longer. And the fact remains Japan has been a world class manufacturer of electronics and durable goods for over half a century. China, not so much. They're still taking a lot of medication to combat their growing pains.

Yes, both Robin / Subaru and Honda supposedly attempt to control and maintain the quality of their Chinese manufactured products. Or so they say. However the consumer has no idea how, or even if this is being done. I think most would agree this was done to increase profits, with an attempt to maintain the same level of quality. If they have or not can't really be argued. Because the consumer has no idea what methods they have in place to do so. I don't think most customers like myself, would see this an improvement. At least not at this point in time. Perhaps not a detriment either. But certainly not an improvement. As it's always a difficult task to increase profit, while maintaining the same level of quality.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: JimmyChainsaw
My understanding is that Subaru will license their name to other companies to manufacture engines.


One of the biggest issues with, "Made Under License By". Is that the quality level almost always never remains the same for long... If ever. As the quality level of the products that were produced by the original company. Look at the firearms industry. Both the H&K 416 .22, and the Colt M-4 .22 are, "Made Under License By Umarex". As well as a large group of cheaply manufactured air guns. All of these products have nowhere near the same quality as the weapons produced by both original companies. Many articles about these guns question why Colt and H&K would lend their names to such cheaply made, and poorly constructed products.

Smith & Wesson has done much the same with Chinese knives that have the S&W logo plastered all over them. I have several Chi-Com knives. And some are not too bad in the quality department, when you can get them cheap enough. (Quality and price are always related one way or another). But all of this kind of stuff almost always revolves around the parent company selling nothing but their name to the product, all for a quick per unit profit. I hope that's not the case with these Robin / Subaru and Honda Chinese produced engines. Only time will tell.

 

[Clayslayer]

Blah blah blah.... Subuaru/Robin are great engines. So are Honda (duh). Briggs...eh... Then again the flood of Harbor Fraud, Champion, and countless others are taking a serious stand in the small engine market. I know a $300 - $400 GX200 will last me a lifetime. Then again an old flathead, asthmatic, anemic, oil guzzling Briggs and Stratton with no cast sleeve and a fouled spark plug I had ran for years and years and years defying the laws of physics. I dumped it eventually, not because it failed, but because I was sick of pulling the cord a dozen times to get it to finally start. Tecumseh engines are about the same and, provided you can start it (good luck), it'll run darn near forever.

There's a lot of mud slung at the Harbor Freight engines and I don't quite understand it. They're good. Really really good. I also have a 196cc Champion powered generator and that booger will start with one or two pulls in the middle of a midwest February at -30 degrees. I watched me do it. I have a 212 Predator that I slapped on a walk behind edger, because 'Murica, that starts so easy it feels like a joke. Why not have a 7hp edger that starts on the first wimpy pull EVERY time. I have a few hundred hours on the Champion and other than a leaky fuel shut off valve (no fault on the engine's part) it starts and runs just the same as the day I bought it. The Predator will never see the same heavy use but it's been very reliable.

In my opinion Tecumseh went out of business because they were the main cause of old dudes needing shoulder surgery. They didn't start. Ever. If my John Deere snowblower with an 8hp SnowKing on it didn't have electric start I'd NEVER use it. Now cue the comment of "Well...I don't know about you but my 30 year old Tecumseh starts first pull every time". Yeah. BS. No it doesn't. It was a miserable bear to start when it was brand new and we ALL know it.

Eventually we're going to have to admit that for the bulk of us these so called garbage Chinese engines are light years better than what we were dealing with in the 80s and dare I say it....on par with, or better than, high end "name brand" stuff out there today. The bulk of us use small engines for residential use in applications where they'll never see more than 500 - 1000 hours of use in their lifetime.

 

[emmett442]

Originally Posted by Clayslayer


In my opinion Tecumseh went out of business because they were the main cause of old dudes needing shoulder surgery. They didn't start. Ever. If my John Deere snowblower with an 8hp SnowKing on it didn't have electric start I'd NEVER use it. Now cue the comment of "Well...I don't know about you but my 30 year old Tecumseh starts first pull every time". Yeah. BS. No it doesn't. It was a miserable bear to start when it was brand new and we ALL know it.

mine's an honest one-pull start every time. 1990 Simplicity 870 with a 8hp Tec "Snow King". Choke on, throttle up, primer shot, one pull. It's a crude engine that drinks fuel and doesn't make much power. But it does start easy every time.

Tec died because it wasn't competitive during the shift to OHV. Their bread and butter flatheads became irrelevant, and the OHV's the DID have were of no significance to their competitor's.

 

[glock19]

Originally Posted by emmett442
Originally Posted by Clayslayer


In my opinion Tecumseh went out of business because they were the main cause of old dudes needing shoulder surgery. They didn't start. Ever. If my John Deere snowblower with an 8hp SnowKing on it didn't have electric start I'd NEVER use it. Now cue the comment of "Well...I don't know about you but my 30 year old Tecumseh starts first pull every time". Yeah. BS. No it doesn't. It was a miserable bear to start when it was brand new and we ALL know it.

mine's an honest one-pull start every time. 1990 Simplicity 870 with a 8hp Tec "Snow King". Choke on, throttle up, primer shot, one pull. It's a crude engine that drinks fuel and doesn't make much power. But it does start easy every time.

Tec died because it wasn't competitive during the shift to OHV. Their bread and butter flatheads became irrelevant, and the OHV's the DID have were of no significance to their competitor's.



We must be lucky. I have a a 5HP Tecumseh Snow King on a 22" MTD snowblower we bought new in 2002. It's not always a one pull start, but I've never had to pull it more than 3 times.

 

[Kamele0N]

Change those little rubber O-rings (2!) on a main nozzle inside a carburetor... It makes a big difference

Try that P/N...

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by Clayslayer
In my opinion Tecumseh went out of business because they were the main cause of old dudes needing shoulder surgery. They didn't start. Ever. If my John Deere snowblower with an 8hp SnowKing on it didn't have electric start I'd NEVER use it. Now cue the comment of "Well...I don't know about you but my 30 year old Tecumseh starts first pull every time". Yeah. BS. No it doesn't. It was a miserable bear to start when it was brand new and we ALL know it.
Nonsense! A properly maintained Tecumseh engine with fresh gas in it will start on the first or second pull EVERY time. I wouldn't let a mower leave my shop if it didn't, I checked each and every one of them myself. You are probably too young to remember this, but many years ago Sears used to have a live commercial on every Sunday night during the Ed Sullivan Show where they started a Craftsman push mower (with a Tecumseh engine) promoting/selling the fact that it would start on the first pull. That mower NEVER failed to start on the first pull.

 

[Kamele0N]

2 things why it could not start at 1st pull...

1st...those 2 O-rings I mentioned
2nd...valve recesion (in case of flathead engine)

Thats it...

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted by i6pwr
Originally Posted by JimmyChainsaw

I would not recommend anyone buy Subaru/Robin product,it has proved very reliable but what happens in 10 years when you want parts?


Why would you not recommend an engine based on the fact you don't think parts will be avail? There are parts distributors and there are shipping companies. That's how I replaced internal parts due to the previous owners neglect on a 9 year old Robin engine.



Old post, but Robin/Subaru has the absolute WORST parts distribution of all the major engine manufacturers. There are times I needed parts for customers and there wasn't a single part at any distributor, eBay, online, anywhere, in the entire country. I had to order from japan, and it cost $$$$ and took 30-45 days to get here. And cost 8 times what it should have. When you tell a customer that the carb rebuild kit that should cost $10 cost $80, it sucks. And this hasn't happened just once. This has happened MANY times over the years. I'm glad to see them defunct and out of business. Good riddance!! The parts are so expensive, and so hard to find sometimes, that they are throwaway engines in my opinion. Most customers would rather just junk the engine and replace it with a $129 Harbor Freight engine than repair it for $200.

If they had a parts distribution network similar to Briggs or Honda, then I would think highly of them. But they dont.

 

[wag123]

Robin engine parts were stocked/distributed by the OEM equipment manufacturers that used them. Since nobody uses them anymore, nobody carries the parts.