Has anyone here used Aisin WS to replace Toyota WS? I'm assuming it's the exact same fluid since Toyota owns most of Aisin AFAIK. I have a used 2011 Sienna with a U660E automatic and have done a drain and fill @ 70,342 miles with about 2.5 quarts of original Toyota WS. It is likely the first time any of the ATF has been replaced since there are no signs that the fluid has been serviced before. The fluid came out fairly dark so I plan on doing additional drain and fills but the Toyota WS is expensive at $10.01/qt. I have some Aisin WS ordered which cost $7.31/qt so I could save some money doing additional drain and fills. Not interested in changing the fluid out with anything other than "factory" fluids so please don't mention Valvoline....
Toyota WS replacement
- Thread starter grjr
- Start date
If you are wanting to use "factory" fluid, then Toyota WS is your only option.
There are several licensed "official" WS fluids out there (Idemitsu, Enenos, Ravenol, Aisin). These WS licensed fluids are all the same as the Toyota fluid, but not "factory".
The many other WS compatible fluids (Maxlife, Mag 1, Pentosin and pretty much any Dex VI/Merc LV fluid out there) work well, but are not licenesed (most likely because of cost of license).
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2018 Hyundai Santa Fe: Delo XLE 10W-30, OEM Filter, 3,000 mile OCI
2012 Scion xB: QSUD 5W-20, CarQuest Blue, 5,000 mile OCI
2007 Saturn Vue: Synpower 5w-30, Ecogard Synthetic, OLM
2002 Ford F150: Magnatec 5W-20, Bosch Distance +, 1 year OCI
1994 Honda VT1100c: Peak 15W-40, Bosch Distance +, 1 year OCI
There are several licensed "official" WS fluids out there (Idemitsu, Enenos, Ravenol, Aisin). These WS licensed fluids are all the same as the Toyota fluid, but not "factory".
The many other WS compatible fluids (Maxlife, Mag 1, Pentosin and pretty much any Dex VI/Merc LV fluid out there) work well, but are not licenesed (most likely because of cost of license).
_____________________________________________________
2018 Hyundai Santa Fe: Delo XLE 10W-30, OEM Filter, 3,000 mile OCI
2012 Scion xB: QSUD 5W-20, CarQuest Blue, 5,000 mile OCI
2007 Saturn Vue: Synpower 5w-30, Ecogard Synthetic, OLM
2002 Ford F150: Magnatec 5W-20, Bosch Distance +, 1 year OCI
1994 Honda VT1100c: Peak 15W-40, Bosch Distance +, 1 year OCI
I only paid $7.25/qt for Toyota WS at my Lexus dealer. You can get a cheaper price of AIsin WS at Rock Auto if you buy a buncha qts. I figure if Aisin made your transmission and are partially owned by Toyota then their WS would be the same as Toyota WS. I wouldn't hesitate. You might call around a few dealerships and offer to buy a case or two to get a better price on the Toyota WS.
The only two ATF's that are specifically labeled specifically "WS" are Toyota and Aisin. NOTE...that I am aware of.
And since Toyota does NOT license their ATF's I'm betting the Aisin WS is the same as Toyota WS.
The only two ATF's that are specifically labeled specifically "WS" are Toyota and Aisin. NOTE...that I am aware of.
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WS .........YUK. Redline D6, Amsoil, or MaxLife.
Many of the Dex6 bottles mention WS on them as being comparable.
Aww, come on.... it won't hurt.
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Amazon is stocking the Idemitsu TLS 5qt bottles now as well, $30.79. I'd trust them along with Aisin for a replacement fluid.
What about Redline D6? Is there love for the product?
What about Redline D6? Is there any love out there for this product?
I've been using Maxlife in multiple WS spec'd Toyotas for years and all of them have way north of 100,000+ miles. Lots of hand wringing on this site about WS and I've never understood why, there is nothing amazing about this spec at all.
Originally Posted by Patrick0525
What about Redline D6? Is there love for the product?
Yes D6 may be a good ATF but not with the 6 speed on my Lexus.
On hot Austin summers it shuddered, reverted back to WS and no shuddering.!!!
What about Redline D6? Is there love for the product?
Yes D6 may be a good ATF but not with the 6 speed on my Lexus.
On hot Austin summers it shuddered, reverted back to WS and no shuddering.!!!
Originally Posted by quint
I've been using Maxlife in multiple WS spec'd Toyotas for years and all of them have way north of 100,000+ miles. Lots of hand wringing on this site about WS and I've never understood why, there is nothing amazing about this spec at all.
No doubt a substantial and significant miles MaxLife for WS anecdote notation quint. I've got similar anecdotal experience with ML for couple Z1 spec'd Hondas and a Tacoma specing DexII/III, 200+k miles combined, same results as you. However, in this case your results are on topic.
As for the hand wringing, 'imo' some are either unable or unwilling to go with any fluid the doesn't have the magic oem ATF name on the bottle. Apparently for some the warm fuzzies provided, worth the significant price premium over ML and other similar like Castrol Full Synthetic MV.
As for Aisin WS labeled fluid mentioned, depending on price likely a good choice too. However I wouldn't buy it using the assumption it is identical to WS labeled. Similarly as proven in several threads, though Aisin DW1 "Formula" and Idemitsu H+ seem to imply they are DW1 "clones", VOAs clearly show that not to be the case. My .02
I've been using Maxlife in multiple WS spec'd Toyotas for years and all of them have way north of 100,000+ miles. Lots of hand wringing on this site about WS and I've never understood why, there is nothing amazing about this spec at all.
No doubt a substantial and significant miles MaxLife for WS anecdote notation quint. I've got similar anecdotal experience with ML for couple Z1 spec'd Hondas and a Tacoma specing DexII/III, 200+k miles combined, same results as you. However, in this case your results are on topic.
As for the hand wringing, 'imo' some are either unable or unwilling to go with any fluid the doesn't have the magic oem ATF name on the bottle. Apparently for some the warm fuzzies provided, worth the significant price premium over ML and other similar like Castrol Full Synthetic MV.
As for Aisin WS labeled fluid mentioned, depending on price likely a good choice too. However I wouldn't buy it using the assumption it is identical to WS labeled. Similarly as proven in several threads, though Aisin DW1 "Formula" and Idemitsu H+ seem to imply they are DW1 "clones", VOAs clearly show that not to be the case. My .02
But Aisin "DW-1" clearly states "Formulated for DW-1 Applications" on the front of the bottle. It never claims to be DW-1. The Aisin T-IV and WS make no such "formulated for..." claim. They simply say "T-IV" or "WS" on the front of the bottle. Now, the Aisin T-IV and WS may not be identical to Toyota WS but it's a whole different animal when you read the labels on the Aisin DW-1 bottles and the Aisin T-IV and WS bottles.
However, he only way to know for 100% certainty you are getting Toyota WS is to buy Toyota WS. Probably cost you $30 additional at most but you will know you got the "real' stuff.
However, he only way to know for 100% certainty you are getting Toyota WS is to buy Toyota WS. Probably cost you $30 additional at most but you will know you got the "real' stuff.
As I try to choose my words carefully it should be noted that I said "seem to imply", and two ATFs are listed, Aisin DW1 "Formula" and Idemitsu H+. So using the that as reference basis the statement is accurate as posted. Further, having observed posts for the DW1 alternatives listed, ATF posts for both can be found assuming they are "clones" both because of name recognition and advertised product wording. As noted, that now proven inaccurate in several threads with VOAs of all three. That also factual information as posted. Link below shows one such thread regarding Aisin DW1, where Amazon bullet point says "Genuine OEM atf"
So, the point of purchasing the Aisin ATF here similarly 'assuming' it is definitely WS fluid also on point. As with the assumed mentioned DW1 clones, VOAs would be needed to see if that assumption is accurate. So paying more for it than say MaxLife as example, may not yield the intended purpose.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4913337/1
So, the point of purchasing the Aisin ATF here similarly 'assuming' it is definitely WS fluid also on point. As with the assumed mentioned DW1 clones, VOAs would be needed to see if that assumption is accurate. So paying more for it than say MaxLife as example, may not yield the intended purpose.
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4913337/1
Originally Posted by Sayjac
As for the hand wringing, 'imo' some are either unable or unwilling to go with any fluid the doesn't have the magic oem ATF name on the bottle. Apparently for some the warm fuzzies provided, worth the significant price premium over ML and other similar like Castrol Full Synthetic MV. My .02
That's a good .02 cents worth of advice (really). I broke down 1.5 years ago and let my good mechanic friend convince me that a multi use tranny fluid would be o.k. where SP 4-M was specified. A.O.K. at this point and time will tell.
Having said that, I think a person needs to still be careful about the details. I had tranny problems when a garage put Dexron in my ATF+3 Chrysler. I personally know of a diesel engine rebuild attributed to using conventional coolant in it (cavitation). I witnessed a CAT excavator getting an expensive fuel system rebuild because of the installation of an incorrect aftermarket fuel filter. I may have had an old Oliver transmission break (shaft collar) because I followed bad dealer advice regarding fluid choice to replace the obsolete spec'ed fluid. It's hard to not ignore this stuff.
The use of MaxLife and other aftermarket fluids to replace OEM products seem to have good history here. If they were not working, we would be reading accounts of tranny failure. My 02 cents (that 4 cents combined with yours) is to not paint with a broad brush concerning everything aftermarket whether it be fluids, parts, whatever.
On with the WS discussion.
As for the hand wringing, 'imo' some are either unable or unwilling to go with any fluid the doesn't have the magic oem ATF name on the bottle. Apparently for some the warm fuzzies provided, worth the significant price premium over ML and other similar like Castrol Full Synthetic MV. My .02
That's a good .02 cents worth of advice (really). I broke down 1.5 years ago and let my good mechanic friend convince me that a multi use tranny fluid would be o.k. where SP 4-M was specified. A.O.K. at this point and time will tell.
Having said that, I think a person needs to still be careful about the details. I had tranny problems when a garage put Dexron in my ATF+3 Chrysler. I personally know of a diesel engine rebuild attributed to using conventional coolant in it (cavitation). I witnessed a CAT excavator getting an expensive fuel system rebuild because of the installation of an incorrect aftermarket fuel filter. I may have had an old Oliver transmission break (shaft collar) because I followed bad dealer advice regarding fluid choice to replace the obsolete spec'ed fluid. It's hard to not ignore this stuff.
The use of MaxLife and other aftermarket fluids to replace OEM products seem to have good history here. If they were not working, we would be reading accounts of tranny failure. My 02 cents (that 4 cents combined with yours) is to not paint with a broad brush concerning everything aftermarket whether it be fluids, parts, whatever.
On with the WS discussion.
I will use the Idemitsu stuff when I service the GS transmission.
The real deal WS is not synthetic; those Toyota engineers must be a bunch of dummies.
Oh yeah, I have used Max Life in Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans for a long time.
Not a single problem. Good stuff, at least in my experience.
The real deal WS is not synthetic; those Toyota engineers must be a bunch of dummies.
Oh yeah, I have used Max Life in Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans for a long time.
Not a single problem. Good stuff, at least in my experience.
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
I will use the Idemitsu stuff when I service the GS transmission.
The real deal WS is not synthetic; those Toyota engineers must be a bunch of dummies.
Oh yeah, I have used Max Life in Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans for a long time.
Not a single problem. Good stuff, at least in my experience.
While I have seen on Toyota some stuff that defy logic in every aspect, I highly doubt this is the case.
Case in point: VW used full synthetic fluid in first versions of their DSG transmissions back in 2000's. However, they switched to semi-synthetic later as they found it better suitable.
I will use the Idemitsu stuff when I service the GS transmission.
The real deal WS is not synthetic; those Toyota engineers must be a bunch of dummies.
Oh yeah, I have used Max Life in Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans for a long time.
Not a single problem. Good stuff, at least in my experience.
While I have seen on Toyota some stuff that defy logic in every aspect, I highly doubt this is the case.
Case in point: VW used full synthetic fluid in first versions of their DSG transmissions back in 2000's. However, they switched to semi-synthetic later as they found it better suitable.
Originally Posted by Gebo
I guess the Ford engineers are dummies as well. The Mercon ULV specified for the 2017 Ford 10 speed tranny is not a synthetic either. What is going on with these engineers? Doesn't everyone know synthetic is best?
Generally it is, yes.
I guess the Ford engineers are dummies as well. The Mercon ULV specified for the 2017 Ford 10 speed tranny is not a synthetic either. What is going on with these engineers? Doesn't everyone know synthetic is best?
Generally it is, yes.
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