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Fram PH/TG/XG8A + HP1 flow rate #5104348
05/13/19 03:05 PM
05/13/19 03:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 600
Georgia
RDY4WAR Online content OP
RDY4WAR  Online Content OP

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 600
Georgia
I sent a request to Fram about the flow rates of the PH8A, TG8A, XG8A, and HP1 filters. I was curious how the new staff there might respond. Here is the response I received from them.

Per our engineering team all filters are tested at ISO 4548-12 test standards. The test is performed with MIL-H-5606 oil at 40 C temperature. The filters are only tested at 3GPM per test requirements. Here are the restriction results for each model:



PH8A: 1.8 PSI @ 3GPM

TG8A: 1.8 PSI @ 3GPM

XG8A: 1.5 PSI @ 3GPM

HP1: 1.45 PSI @ 3GPM



A search for MIL-H-5606 technical properties showed a KV40 of 13.8 cSt.


"He who is without oil, shall throw the first rod." - Compressions 9:1
Re: Fram PH/TG/XG8A + HP1 flow rate [Re: RDY4WAR] #5104358
05/13/19 03:17 PM
05/13/19 03:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,211
Western S.C.
CR94 Offline
CR94  Offline

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,211
Western S.C.
Interesting reply, and surprisingly straightforward.
Thanks!


2011 Toyota Prius now at 101K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
Re: Fram PH/TG/XG8A + HP1 flow rate [Re: RDY4WAR] #5104365
05/13/19 03:21 PM
05/13/19 03:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 549
New England
555 Offline
555  Offline

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 549
New England
Thanks for the post. I use an HP-1 on the Mustang and was always curious.


84 XJ6 M1
92 Mustang 5.0 Redline
99 Tahoe 2 door Castrol Edge
99 MX5 Miata Anniversary Edition M1
04 Subaru STi Motul
Re: Fram PH/TG/XG8A + HP1 flow rate [Re: RDY4WAR] #5104378
05/13/19 03:37 PM
05/13/19 03:37 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 890
Western Ma.
rollinpete Offline
rollinpete  Offline

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 890
Western Ma.
Thanks for posting this information. thumbsup

Correct me if i'm wrong ,but would this mean the oil flows easier thru the XG8A, compared to the TG8A?


Pete.

97 Ford Expl.Sport 4.0 ohv 4wd 5spd 188k miles
03 Saturn Ion 2.2 L4 5spd 239k miles
PP, PPHM 50/50 5w30

Currently under the influence of oil shocked2

Re: Fram PH/TG/XG8A + HP1 flow rate [Re: RDY4WAR] #5104379
05/13/19 03:38 PM
05/13/19 03:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 600
Georgia
RDY4WAR Online content OP
RDY4WAR  Online Content OP

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 600
Georgia
I sent the same request to WIX regarding the 51515, 51515XP, and 51515R filters. Their response was...

We can't give out that information.

no-no


"He who is without oil, shall throw the first rod." - Compressions 9:1
Re: Fram PH/TG/XG8A + HP1 flow rate [Re: rollinpete] #5104381
05/13/19 03:38 PM
05/13/19 03:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 600
Georgia
RDY4WAR Online content OP
RDY4WAR  Online Content OP

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 600
Georgia
Originally Posted by rollinpete
Thanks for posting this information. thumbsup

Correct me if i'm wrong ,but would this mean the oil flows easier thru the XG8A, compared to the TG8A?


Yes. Less restriction at the same flow rate while also filtering better.


"He who is without oil, shall throw the first rod." - Compressions 9:1
Re: Fram PH/TG/XG8A + HP1 flow rate [Re: RDY4WAR] #5104390
05/13/19 03:49 PM
05/13/19 03:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 890
Western Ma.
rollinpete Offline
rollinpete  Offline

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 890
Western Ma.
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
Originally Posted by rollinpete
Thanks for posting this information. thumbsup

Correct me if i'm wrong ,but would this mean the oil flows easier thru the XG8A, compared to the TG8A?


Yes. Less restriction at the same flow rate while also filtering better.



Thanks!


Pete.

97 Ford Expl.Sport 4.0 ohv 4wd 5spd 188k miles
03 Saturn Ion 2.2 L4 5spd 239k miles
PP, PPHM 50/50 5w30

Currently under the influence of oil shocked2

Re: Fram PH/TG/XG8A + HP1 flow rate [Re: RDY4WAR] #5104412
05/13/19 04:15 PM
05/13/19 04:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,692
Upper Midwest
kschachn Offline
kschachn  Offline

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,692
Upper Midwest
Is the difference significant?


1994 BMW 530i, 242K
1996 Honda Accord, 277K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 418K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 281K
Re: Fram PH/TG/XG8A + HP1 flow rate [Re: kschachn] #5104458
05/13/19 04:55 PM
05/13/19 04:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,813
Idaho
CT8 Online content
CT8  Online Content

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 13,813
Idaho
Originally Posted by kschachn
Is the difference significant?

That was my first thought.


2015 F150 2.7
2018 F350 6.2
Re: Fram PH/TG/XG8A + HP1 flow rate [Re: RDY4WAR] #5104473
05/13/19 05:26 PM
05/13/19 05:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,658
Katy, Republic of Texas
blupupher Offline
blupupher  Offline

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,658
Katy, Republic of Texas
I would think not, only 0.3 psi difference, and vehicles have what, 30-60 psi systems?
But my thoughts have been wrong before, I really have no idea.


2018 Santa Fe: PP 10W-30/OEM/5k
2018 Soul: Mobil Super 5w-20/OEM/5k
2012 xB: M1 EP 0W-20/CQ Blue/5k
2002 F150: Magnatec 5W-20/Bosch D+/1yr
1994 VT1100: Peak 15W-40/Bosch D+/1yr
Re: Fram PH/TG/XG8A + HP1 flow rate [Re: RDY4WAR] #5104477
05/13/19 05:32 PM
05/13/19 05:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,211
Western S.C.
CR94 Offline
CR94  Offline

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,211
Western S.C.
Are smaller filters tested at proportionately lower flow rates, or the same? If the same, pressure drop would go considerably higher.

Last edited by CR94; 05/13/19 05:37 PM.

2011 Toyota Prius now at 101K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
Re: Fram PH/TG/XG8A + HP1 flow rate [Re: RDY4WAR] #5104518
05/13/19 06:18 PM
05/13/19 06:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 890
Western Ma.
rollinpete Offline
rollinpete  Offline

Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 890
Western Ma.
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
I sent a request to Fram about the flow rates of the PH8A, TG8A, XG8A, and HP1 filters. I was curious how the new staff there might respond. Here is the response I received from them.

Per our engineering team all filters are tested at ISO 4548-12 test standards. The test is performed with MIL-H-5606 oil at 40 C temperature. The filters are only tested at 3GPM per test requirements. Here are the restriction results for each model:



PH8A: 1.8 PSI @ 3GPM

TG8A: 1.8 PSI @ 3GPM

XG8A: 1.5 PSI @ 3GPM

HP1: 1.45 PSI @ 3GPM



A search for MIL-H-5606 technical properties showed a KV40 of 13.8 cSt.



Looking at them numbers now for a while and they don't seem right?
If I managed to get my truck to go 90 down the highway and get the oil pressure up to 50 psi on the xg8a filter i'd be pumping 100 gpm of oil.
Can anyone explain this to a simple folk like me. LOL


Pete.

97 Ford Expl.Sport 4.0 ohv 4wd 5spd 188k miles
03 Saturn Ion 2.2 L4 5spd 239k miles
PP, PPHM 50/50 5w30

Currently under the influence of oil shocked2

Re: Fram PH/TG/XG8A + HP1 flow rate [Re: rollinpete] #5104525
05/13/19 06:29 PM
05/13/19 06:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 21,319
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 21,319
PNW
Originally Posted by rollinpete
Looking at them numbers now for a while and they don't seem right?
If I managed to get my truck to go 90 down the highway and get the oil pressure up to 50 psi on the xg8a filter i'd be pumping 100 gpm of oil.
Can anyone explain this to a simple folk like me. LOL


Pressure drop (delta-p) across the oil filter has nothing to do with how much oil pressure you see on the dashboard gauge.

Re: Fram PH/TG/XG8A + HP1 flow rate [Re: RDY4WAR] #5104530
05/13/19 06:36 PM
05/13/19 06:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 21,319
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline

Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 21,319
PNW
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
I sent a request to Fram about the flow rates of the PH8A, TG8A, XG8A, and HP1 filters. I was curious how the new staff there might respond. Here is the response I received from them.

Per our engineering team all filters are tested at ISO 4548-12 test standards. The test is performed with MIL-H-5606 oil at 40 C temperature. The filters are only tested at 3GPM per test requirements. Here are the restriction results for each model:

PH8A: 1.8 PSI @ 3GPM

TG8A: 1.8 PSI @ 3GPM

XG8A: 1.5 PSI @ 3GPM

HP1: 1.45 PSI @ 3GPM


A search for MIL-H-5606 technical properties showed a KV40 of 13.8 cSt.


Go info, thanks for posting. 13.8 cSt is like a light 40 weight at 212 deg F.

Here's a couple of delta-p vs flow graphs for comparison. One is the PureOne from Purolator that shows delta-p vs flow with hot oil of about the same viscosity. Also a graph of the Ford Racing filter with unknown oil viscosity, but it would have to be relatively hot oil IMO to obtain a graph like that. Looking at 3 GPM on the graph, the PureOne is 1.2 PSID and the Ford Racing is 2.5 PSID.

As mentioned many times, most oil filters out there will not have much delta-p with hot oil ... way less than most people would think. Even at 10 GPM, the delta-p will only be 4 to 5 PSID with hot oil.

PureOne Flow vs Delta-P Curve.JPGFord Racing Filter - FL820 Spec Sheet.jpg
Re: Fram PH/TG/XG8A + HP1 flow rate [Re: RDY4WAR] #5104535
05/13/19 06:41 PM
05/13/19 06:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 600
Georgia
RDY4WAR Online content OP
RDY4WAR  Online Content OP

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 600
Georgia
The secret to the better flow with the Purolator is the tear in the media. laugh


"He who is without oil, shall throw the first rod." - Compressions 9:1
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