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Re: What! New car I can't change rear brakes w/o scanner w brake servicing? [Re: JLawrence08648] #5104140
05/13/19 11:03 AM
05/13/19 11:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,963
Southeast
meep Offline
meep  Offline

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,963
Southeast
in my F150 I believe there's a pedal/switch dance for the service procedure.


2018 F150
2015 crv (wifey!)
Re: What! New car I can't change rear brakes w/o scanner w brake servicing? [Re: eljefino] #5104143
05/13/19 11:10 AM
05/13/19 11:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,221
Western S.C.
CR94 Offline
CR94  Offline

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,221
Western S.C.
Originally Posted by eljefino
My 05 prius needs the dealer scan tool to bleed the rear brakes, important in a world where salt corrodes their lines.

Tried it without the scan tool, upon booting the car turned on the red warning triangle and refused to move out of park. ...
Not exactly true, if it's like the 3rd generation (2010-2015) Prius. If so, there's a procedure described in the service manual to bleed brakes without using a scan tool. You have to put it into "invalid mode" first. Then bleed rear brakes by opening bleed valve while the pump pumps fluid through, then bleed the fronts more-or-less conventionally (with an assistant pressing the brake pedal).

I don't know whether a similar routine is possible on JLawrence's Hyundai.


2011 Toyota Prius now at 101K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
Re: What! New car I can't change rear brakes w/o scanner w brake servicing? [Re: JLawrence08648] #5104145
05/13/19 11:11 AM
05/13/19 11:11 AM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,123
New York
pbm Offline
pbm  Offline

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 8,123
New York
A lot of 'new automotive technology' is really just a solution in search of a problem, IMO.....and it creates customers for the dealer....


'Journalism is Dead'
Re: What! New car I can't change rear brakes w/o scanner w brake servicing? [Re: JLawrence08648] #5104183
05/13/19 11:58 AM
05/13/19 11:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,763
Cincinnati
Chris Meutsch Offline
Chris Meutsch  Offline

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,763
Cincinnati
Another reason to continue rocking my 2005 CR-V............


2005 Honda CR-V EX, 273k
Re: What! New car I can't change rear brakes w/o scanner w brake servicing? [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #5104195
05/13/19 12:16 PM
05/13/19 12:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,056
Canada
Lolvoguy Offline
Lolvoguy  Offline

Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,056
Canada
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
People must be abusing the crap out of the e-brake handle, as I've been driving manuals nearly exclusively for 25 years and never had a problem with a stretched E-brake cable. I know my Subarus say that full E-brake engagement should happen at around 7-8 clicks, so there's no need to go yanking the handle like a flipping idiot.


As someone who has the original cables on the 31 year old manual transmission BMW below, I concur.
coffee


06 Lexus IS350- Wife
88 BMW 325is- Mistress
Say "no" to Turbo!
Re: What! New car I can't change rear brakes w/o scanner w brake servicing? [Re: KrisZ] #5104228
05/13/19 12:45 PM
05/13/19 12:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 22,491
Upstate NY
Donald Offline
Donald  Offline

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 22,491
Upstate NY
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Yes, if your car has an electronic parking brake where the parking brake is engage/disengaged by an electric motor, instead of a mechanical lever connected via cable, you will need a scan tool capable of retracting the motor all the way so the brakes can be serviced.


This sounds like a bi-directional scan tool. Not your $100 one.

Auto Enginuity has one for about $500 since you need the tool and manufacturer specific option for one car brand. And a laptop.


2015 Subaru Forester 2.5 engine/CVT
2015 Ford F250 w/Powerstroke
2016 Subaru Crosstrek CVT (wife's)
Re: What! New car I can't change rear brakes w/o scanner w brake servicing? [Re: meep] #5104304
05/13/19 02:15 PM
05/13/19 02:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,054
Ohio
hallstevenson Offline
hallstevenson  Offline

Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 2,054
Ohio
Originally Posted by meep
in my F150 I believe there's a pedal/switch dance for the service procedure.

If it's like '13 and newer Fusions, yes, there probably is.

I know people like to cry that this is just another tactic to force people to dealers but isn't there almost always a manual way to operate these things ? On different Ford models, yeah, the dealers will have a scan tool that disengages the electronic parking brake and there are 3rd-party scan tools that can do it but there's also a procedure involving the pedals, key in ignition, pressing brake button, etc that does the same.

Re: What! New car I can't change rear brakes w/o scanner w brake servicing? [Re: c502cid] #5104626
05/13/19 08:24 PM
05/13/19 08:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,139
The Motor City
Kestas Online content
Global Moderator
Kestas  Online Content
Global Moderator

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 13,139
The Motor City
Originally Posted by c502cid
Originally Posted by Kestas
Am I to understand that the emergency brake is actuated only by an electric motor? What if the motor doesn't work or the power goes out when the emergency brake is needed?

I have more faith in a cable than in an electric motor for an emergency situation.

That's exactly what people said when automobiles went from mechanical brakes to hydraulic brakes in the 1930's. Not saying I disagree with you though.....

When they went from cable to hydraulic for brakes, didn't they decide they need a backup plan? They opted for cable as a backup.

I'm working from memory, but I believe many military planes use cable as backup for avionics.

Re: What! New car I can't change rear brakes w/o scanner w brake servicing? [Re: Sluggo0018] #5104836
05/14/19 06:24 AM
05/14/19 06:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 451
The Orca
quint Offline
quint  Offline

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 451
The Orca
Originally Posted by meep
in my F150 I believe there's a pedal/switch dance for the service procedure.


Originally Posted by Sluggo0018
My 2016 Mazda CX-9 has motor actuated parking brakes as well. When I changed the rear pads and rotors, I was able to unbolt the electric motors and wind in the mechanism to give enough room to fit the new pads and rotors. It really wasn't very difficult, but added a couple of minutes to the process. After completion, I actuated the electric parking brake and it worked fine after winding itself in to take up the slack I had created in the system. No need for a special tool on my car. The process might be different for other cars.


FYI on Mazda's there is a pedal/switch dance as well so that you wont have to remove the motors next time. Basically, if you turn the ignition on (dont start it), press and hold the gas pedal to the floor while holding the parking brake switch down (disengaged), then hit the start button three times rapidly, it will fully retract the motors so that you can change the pads by just pushing the pistons in like normal.

To put the parking brake out of maintenance mode, you do the same dance but instead of the holding the parking brake button down, you hold it up (engaged).

Re: What! New car I can't change rear brakes w/o scanner w brake servicing? [Re: JLawrence08648] #5105040
05/14/19 11:08 AM
05/14/19 11:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,544
New York City
SeaJay Offline
SeaJay  Offline

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,544
New York City
The world be changing!

Next thing you know someone will invent a telephone that you don't need to keep in your house wired to the wall.

Re: What! New car I can't change rear brakes w/o scanner w brake servicing? [Re: JLawrence08648] #5105071
05/14/19 11:36 AM
05/14/19 11:36 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,996
NH
supton Offline
supton  Offline

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 13,996
NH
I dunno, I guess I'm in the hater's camp on this one. I realize things change and all, but, I don't want to have to buy a scan tool just to change brakes. Maybe it was under $100 for said tool. And hit every system in the car. And maybe came with wiring diagrams and whatnot to debug vehicle issues.

I'm not impressed with fancy pedal/switch tap dances to enter into hidden menus. Seems stupid. Back in the old days when cars didn't have huge LCD's and rows of buttons maybe that made sense. Today? I'm surprised you can't plug in a USB keyboard & mouse and navigate the various things available in the ECU (and TCU and body module and whatever else). I get that OEM's don't want to make it easy for "dumb" owners/users to get in and make mistakes. But IMO this brake service thing should be as simple as going into the service menu and hitting "service rear pads" and "relearn rear pad location" on the touchscreen. Anything more involved is going backwards in this era of simplification and point&click.


2011 Toyota Camry, base, 2.5L/6MT, 187k, hers
2010 Toyota Tundra DC, 4.6L/6AT, 152k, ours
1999 Toyota Camry LE, 2.2L/4AT, 208k, his
Re: What! New car I can't change rear brakes w/o scanner w brake servicing? [Re: JLawrence08648] #5105121
05/14/19 12:22 PM
05/14/19 12:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,491
Lakeville, MN
MNgopher Offline
MNgopher  Offline

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,491
Lakeville, MN
I don't miss having two brake systems to service with the drum brake in the hat parking brake with rear disc breaks. That is a simplification there.

On top of that, as the years and miles pile on, I have not had one of the hat style systems that I havent had to completely rebuild due to corrosion and things falling apart. Usually 150,000 miles in, but still a pain.

My F150 has a service mode, no scanner required.

Re: What! New car I can't change rear brakes w/o scanner w brake servicing? [Re: blupupher] #5105130
05/14/19 12:29 PM
05/14/19 12:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,669
Buffalo, NY
JTK Online content
JTK  Online Content

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,669
Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted by blupupher
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Yes, if your car has an electronic parking brake where the parking brake is engage/disengaged by an electric motor, instead of a mechanical lever connected via cable, you will need a scan tool capable of retracting the motor all the way so the brakes can be serviced.

Good to know.
My '18 Santa Fe has the electric parking brake. I have been looking at Hyundai scan tools for a bit and this may be what tips me over into buying one.


I think there's different style systems though. Some electronic parking brakes simply yank on a cable that actuates the shoes inside the rotor hat. Others screw the pistons out of the caliper using the pads as the P-brake. I *think* it's the later that requires some extra intervention.


2017 Ram 1500 4x4, 3.6L.
2016 Nissan Quest SV (Babe magnet IV)
2015 Nissan Versa 1.6 S
Re: What! New car I can't change rear brakes w/o scanner w brake servicing? [Re: supton] #5105221
05/14/19 02:36 PM
05/14/19 02:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,694
Katy, Republic of Texas
blupupher Offline
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Posts: 5,694
Katy, Republic of Texas
Originally Posted by supton
I dunno, I guess I'm in the hater's camp on this one. I realize things change and all, but, I don't want to have to buy a scan tool just to change brakes. Maybe it was under $100 for said tool. And hit every system in the car. And maybe came with wiring diagrams and whatnot to debug vehicle issues.
...

If it was just a $150 tool for only brakes, I would agree, but getting an OBD tool that has multiple functions is worth $150 to me.
I have been looking at this Foxwell NT510 tool or the Foxwell NT520 tool specifically for Hyundai/Kia vehicles.
It reads/clears OBD II, ABS, Airbag, EPB, TPMS, live data scan and a host of other things.
I have seen a few cheaper brands (Launch CRP123, but has a high rate of knockoffs out there) as well.

Another thing is with the Foxwell, you can add other makes to them (for a charge), I think is it like $70.
I have debated getting Toyota and Ford software if I get one, so I can do all my vehicles (and most of my family).

_____________________________________________________

2018 Hyundai Santa Fe: Delo XLE 10W-30, OEM Filter, 3,000 mile OCI
2012 Scion xB: QSUD 5W-20, CarQuest Blue, 5,000 mile OCI
2007 Saturn Vue: Synpower 5w-30, Ecogard Synthetic, OLM
2002 Ford F150: Magnatec 5W-20, Bosch Distance +, 1 year OCI
1994 Honda VT1100c: Peak 15W-40, Bosch Distance +, 1 year OCI


Re: What! New car I can't change rear brakes w/o scanner w brake servicing? [Re: supton] #5105452
05/14/19 07:13 PM
05/14/19 07:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,221
Western S.C.
CR94 Offline
CR94  Offline

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,221
Western S.C.
Originally Posted by supton
... Today? I'm surprised you can't plug in a USB keyboard & mouse and navigate the various things available in the ECU (and TCU and body module and whatever else). ...
Actually, you can do something a lot like that with an old laptop and cheap gray-market Toyota Techstream software, as I understand. Probably similar with other brands.


2011 Toyota Prius now at 101K
1981 Mazda GLC (323) retired at 606K
1972 Subaru DL retired at 190K
1954 Chevrolet retired at 121K
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