This sample was taken from a 5-qt jug purchased at WM in 3/2019.
Mobil 1 SAE 0W-16 VOA
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Patman
Staff member
It doesn't have anywhere as much moly as we suspected it might have. That's kind of surprising actually.
Originally Posted by Patman
It doesn't have anywhere as much moly as we suspected it might have. That's kind of surprising actually.
Wish you hadn't brought that up. I was wrongly predicting higher moly and maybe boron too in order to counter the low HTHS in wear tests. Could be they went for organic solutions to SN wear tests (?).
It doesn't have anywhere as much moly as we suspected it might have. That's kind of surprising actually.
Wish you hadn't brought that up. I was wrongly predicting higher moly and maybe boron too in order to counter the low HTHS in wear tests. Could be they went for organic solutions to SN wear tests (?).
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Not the ultra additive fortified package all were expecting. I wonder what the base oil composition is.
It appears that the regular M1 oils are now using approximately 180 ppm of moly (see VOA of M1 5w20) while the rest of the grades are using around 80 ppm. This is a majority PAO/V based oil, and that could be a possible reason why there is less in this grade.
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by addyguy
Looks exactly as I thought it was. 0W-16 is nothing more than a 0W-20 blended to the 'bottom end' of the allowance for a 20-weight.
I seriously doubt that
It should be about the same base oils that a 0w20 has, then less VII needed in the 0w16, guessing.
Originally Posted by addyguy
Looks exactly as I thought it was. 0W-16 is nothing more than a 0W-20 blended to the 'bottom end' of the allowance for a 20-weight.
I seriously doubt that
It should be about the same base oils that a 0w20 has, then less VII needed in the 0w16, guessing.
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by addyguy
Looks exactly as I thought it was. 0W-16 is nothing more than a 0W-20 blended to the 'bottom end' of the allowance for a 20-weight.
I seriously doubt that
It should be about the same base oils that a 0w20 has, then less VII needed in the 0w16, guessing.
The standard UOA visible add pack is fairly classic Mobil1 SN+.
Originally Posted by Shannow
Originally Posted by addyguy
Looks exactly as I thought it was. 0W-16 is nothing more than a 0W-20 blended to the 'bottom end' of the allowance for a 20-weight.
I seriously doubt that
It should be about the same base oils that a 0w20 has, then less VII needed in the 0w16, guessing.
The standard UOA visible add pack is fairly classic Mobil1 SN+.
Originally Posted by BLND1
The standard UOA visible add pack is fairly classic Mobil1 SN+.
We can't see what organic additives they could be using such as https://www.crodalubricants.com/en-...product-finder/product/451/Perfad_1_3000
or http://www.lube-media.com/wp-conten...ModifiersforNextGenerationEngineOils.pdf
The standard UOA visible add pack is fairly classic Mobil1 SN+.
We can't see what organic additives they could be using such as https://www.crodalubricants.com/en-...product-finder/product/451/Perfad_1_3000
or http://www.lube-media.com/wp-conten...ModifiersforNextGenerationEngineOils.pdf
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by BLND1
The standard UOA visible add pack is fairly classic Mobil1 SN+.
We can't see what organic additives they could be using such as https://www.crodalubricants.com/en-...product-finder/product/451/Perfad_1_3000
or http://www.lube-media.com/wp-conten...ModifiersforNextGenerationEngineOils.pdf
Correct. Good post.
Food for thought....on Mobil 1 website they specifically state that up to 18 hand selected components go into a Mobil 1 formulation. In this VOA you're seeing only 6.
Originally Posted by BLND1
The standard UOA visible add pack is fairly classic Mobil1 SN+.
We can't see what organic additives they could be using such as https://www.crodalubricants.com/en-...product-finder/product/451/Perfad_1_3000
or http://www.lube-media.com/wp-conten...ModifiersforNextGenerationEngineOils.pdf
Correct. Good post.
Food for thought....on Mobil 1 website they specifically state that up to 18 hand selected components go into a Mobil 1 formulation. In this VOA you're seeing only 6.
I am seeing elevated levels of boron and zinc.
This has got to be why there is less moly.
The next big question is how long does it stay in grade with fuel dilution ?
This has got to be why there is less moly.
The next big question is how long does it stay in grade with fuel dilution ?
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
I am seeing elevated levels of boron and zinc. This has got to be why there is less moly.
No, boron & zinc are not elevated at all. Very normal average amounts. And, remember ZDDP increases friction, which moly then reduces. Moly looks very average too though.
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
The next big question is how long does it stay in grade with fuel dilution ?
True, it will drop it, and really very little room to go. You can get an idea by using the Widman mixing calculator at https://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Mixtures.html and use 1 cSt kv100 for gasoline in whatever percentage you want. We see fuel dilution around 3% kinda common. (The 1 cSt is actually conservative, its really lower than that.)
I am seeing elevated levels of boron and zinc. This has got to be why there is less moly.
No, boron & zinc are not elevated at all. Very normal average amounts. And, remember ZDDP increases friction, which moly then reduces. Moly looks very average too though.
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
The next big question is how long does it stay in grade with fuel dilution ?
True, it will drop it, and really very little room to go. You can get an idea by using the Widman mixing calculator at https://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Mixtures.html and use 1 cSt kv100 for gasoline in whatever percentage you want. We see fuel dilution around 3% kinda common. (The 1 cSt is actually conservative, its really lower than that.)
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
I am seeing elevated levels of boron and zinc. This has got to be why there is less moly.
No, boron & zinc are not elevated at all. Very normal average amounts. And, remember ZDDP increases friction, which moly then reduces. Moly looks very average too though.
Thank you for the correction. I got some of my numbers mixed up while trying to compare M1 AFE 0W20 to M1 AFE 0W16. Also, I was under the impression that zinc and moly compete to bond with metal surfaces, possibly affecting desired dosages. It's back to the unidentified organic additives as projected core components.
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
The next big question is how long does it stay in grade with fuel dilution ?
True, it will drop it, and really very little room to go. You can get an idea by using the Widman mixing calculator at https://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Mixtures.html and use 1 cSt kv100 for gasoline in whatever percentage you want. We see fuel dilution around 3% kinda common. (The 1 cSt is actually conservative, its really lower than that.)
I just went back and revisited Ravenol EFE 0W16, in continuing efforts to examine what is going on in very thin motor oil design.
I bought a PriusC on the very day Ravenol came to market in NA with this 0W16 oil, and it was a perfect match. I immediately put it to work for 10k mile OCI's for a total of 40k miles. I wish to heck I had done some testing.
The Ravenol has some very interesting numbers.
Kin Vis 100 degrees cSt 7.24
VI 156
HTHS 2.4
Noack 8.2
SA 0.89
Zinc 775
Boron 100
Moly 133 (trimer)
Phosphorus 736
Magnesium 0 apparently
Sodium 340
Calcium 1670
TBN 6.17
I did not see density anywhere, but everything else, other than TBN, points to an oil of very high quality. I surmise that the expensive Ravenol is a candidate for extended OCIs. "TBN is not linear."
I also obtained, with some serious gymnastics, including persistent phone calls to Texas, the ultimate unobtainium oil, Citgo Supergard 0W16. This is an economy 0W16, and I used it in short OCis for 60k miles. This was all circa 2016.
There was a little bit of oil consumption with the Citgo, none whatsoever with the Ravenol. My engine never did explode.
Now we have M1 AFE 0W16, $23/5qt jug at Walmart.com, suitable for reasonable OCIs.
We need someone to use these 0W16 oils in DIT engines,
with successive 3,5, &7 k mile OCIs, and provide non Blackstone UOAs.
Be my guest.
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
I am seeing elevated levels of boron and zinc. This has got to be why there is less moly.
No, boron & zinc are not elevated at all. Very normal average amounts. And, remember ZDDP increases friction, which moly then reduces. Moly looks very average too though.
Thank you for the correction. I got some of my numbers mixed up while trying to compare M1 AFE 0W20 to M1 AFE 0W16. Also, I was under the impression that zinc and moly compete to bond with metal surfaces, possibly affecting desired dosages. It's back to the unidentified organic additives as projected core components.
Originally Posted by Direct_Rejection
The next big question is how long does it stay in grade with fuel dilution ?
True, it will drop it, and really very little room to go. You can get an idea by using the Widman mixing calculator at https://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Mixtures.html and use 1 cSt kv100 for gasoline in whatever percentage you want. We see fuel dilution around 3% kinda common. (The 1 cSt is actually conservative, its really lower than that.)
I just went back and revisited Ravenol EFE 0W16, in continuing efforts to examine what is going on in very thin motor oil design.
I bought a PriusC on the very day Ravenol came to market in NA with this 0W16 oil, and it was a perfect match. I immediately put it to work for 10k mile OCI's for a total of 40k miles. I wish to heck I had done some testing.
The Ravenol has some very interesting numbers.
Kin Vis 100 degrees cSt 7.24
VI 156
HTHS 2.4
Noack 8.2
SA 0.89
Zinc 775
Boron 100
Moly 133 (trimer)
Phosphorus 736
Magnesium 0 apparently
Sodium 340
Calcium 1670
TBN 6.17
I did not see density anywhere, but everything else, other than TBN, points to an oil of very high quality. I surmise that the expensive Ravenol is a candidate for extended OCIs. "TBN is not linear."
I also obtained, with some serious gymnastics, including persistent phone calls to Texas, the ultimate unobtainium oil, Citgo Supergard 0W16. This is an economy 0W16, and I used it in short OCis for 60k miles. This was all circa 2016.
There was a little bit of oil consumption with the Citgo, none whatsoever with the Ravenol. My engine never did explode.
Now we have M1 AFE 0W16, $23/5qt jug at Walmart.com, suitable for reasonable OCIs.
We need someone to use these 0W16 oils in DIT engines,
with successive 3,5, &7 k mile OCIs, and provide non Blackstone UOAs.
Be my guest.
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by BLND1
The standard UOA visible add pack is fairly classic Mobil1 SN+.
We can't see what organic additives they could be using such as https://www.crodalubricants.com/en-...product-finder/product/451/Perfad_1_3000
or http://www.lube-media.com/wp-conten...ModifiersforNextGenerationEngineOils.pdf
No way!. That must be why I said "standard UOA visible add pack." As in "the limited analysis we get with a cheap UOA."
Originally Posted by BLND1
The standard UOA visible add pack is fairly classic Mobil1 SN+.
We can't see what organic additives they could be using such as https://www.crodalubricants.com/en-...product-finder/product/451/Perfad_1_3000
or http://www.lube-media.com/wp-conten...ModifiersforNextGenerationEngineOils.pdf
No way!. That must be why I said "standard UOA visible add pack." As in "the limited analysis we get with a cheap UOA."
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