NOW? Have you been in the shower the last 10 years?
This happened around 2018 so I'm soggy but not drowned.
This happened around 2018 so I'm soggy but not drowned.
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Chinese Craftsman tools
- Thread starter jharrison
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This is the stigma that China will have to live for many generations, Made in China = cheap and poorly made. This was true of Japan after the war, but the japanese realized this (thanks to W.E. Deming) and corrected it quite quickly & well.
China has no Deming nor do they work cooperatively like the japanese so it will take them a lot longer if ever to shake off this reputation.
China can produce products as good as anybody, but then the price advantage will be gone and no one would buy them, so they keep producing crappy disposable products for people who are only interested in price and not value.
China has no Deming nor do they work cooperatively like the japanese so it will take them a lot longer if ever to shake off this reputation.
China can produce products as good as anybody, but then the price advantage will be gone and no one would buy them, so they keep producing crappy disposable products for people who are only interested in price and not value.
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The Japanese never embraced Marxism. A centrally-planned economy/mode of thought isn't going to produce a breakthrough product like a Datsun 240Z. That's just not going to happen.
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AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
I have the basic Craftsman mechanic tool set my Grandpa bought me when I was 16 in 1973 and also have some of his Craftsman tools including a 10" table saw. He was a Craftsman guy so I'm a Craftsman guy, and made in USA was a given. Craftsman and China shouldn't be in the same sentence but it's a different time. Luckily I have no need to buy a Chinesium Craftsman tool.
Lowes and Ace Hdw. may be selling Craftsman branded tools now but the prices usually leave a lot to be desired.
The wet/dry vacs they sell don't compare to the Craftsman XSP models (mfg. by Vacmaster) I've seen only at Sears.
Using sales and "points" from Sears I was able to accumulate a crapload of tools for my kids and grandkids (currently one year old) as well as sets for my vehicles.
Most sets we currently use are 90% USA made as well as 75% of the ones in storage for the gkids.
Yup, I'm one of the reasons Sears went under in my area!
The wet/dry vacs they sell don't compare to the Craftsman XSP models (mfg. by Vacmaster) I've seen only at Sears.
Using sales and "points" from Sears I was able to accumulate a crapload of tools for my kids and grandkids (currently one year old) as well as sets for my vehicles.
Most sets we currently use are 90% USA made as well as 75% of the ones in storage for the gkids.
Yup, I'm one of the reasons Sears went under in my area!
Originally Posted by Pelican
China can produce products as good as anybody, but then the price advantage will be gone and no one would buy them, so they keep producing crappy disposable products for people who are only interested in price and not value.
Yes and no as it depends on the item. In the tariff thread that was locked, somebody said we needed to hurry up and buy all the cheap tools at HF before they go up.
News flash: the Chinese produce far more than cheap tools and tissue paper lanterns.. The computer you're typing on, the phone in your pocket etc. Electronically, the list goes on and on. The US does not have a means to make a PC anymore.. quite scary when you think about it.
China can produce products as good as anybody, but then the price advantage will be gone and no one would buy them, so they keep producing crappy disposable products for people who are only interested in price and not value.
Yes and no as it depends on the item. In the tariff thread that was locked, somebody said we needed to hurry up and buy all the cheap tools at HF before they go up.
News flash: the Chinese produce far more than cheap tools and tissue paper lanterns.. The computer you're typing on, the phone in your pocket etc. Electronically, the list goes on and on. The US does not have a means to make a PC anymore.. quite scary when you think about it.
About 20 years ago I took a broken extension in to my local sears store for replacement and was informed that they don't warrantee drivevtools any longer. Say what?
Since that day the only thing sears I have purchased is a couple craftsman shop vacs. I still think they are the best on the market.
I use snap on for all of my ratchets, extensions, screw drivers and rotational torque wrench. Still have full sets of deep and shallow sockets and 2 open box sets up to 1.5".
I do have a hf professional open box set that is a pretty nice set but I don't think their tolerances are any where near snappy.
One thing I do know is that when one pays big bucks for tools you tend to keep tract of them and take care of them.
Since that day the only thing sears I have purchased is a couple craftsman shop vacs. I still think they are the best on the market.
I use snap on for all of my ratchets, extensions, screw drivers and rotational torque wrench. Still have full sets of deep and shallow sockets and 2 open box sets up to 1.5".
I do have a hf professional open box set that is a pretty nice set but I don't think their tolerances are any where near snappy.
One thing I do know is that when one pays big bucks for tools you tend to keep tract of them and take care of them.
We need to get the project farm guy to torture test some of these " chinesium" tools I've been reading about here.
Most of what I see here is strictly about attitudes about a certain country or quality issues from twenty years ago.
So how about it: America's best ( what would that be?) vs a branded Chinese made product from 2019. I'll throw in a Mastercraft branded wrench for the test.
So how you you test it. Tighten up a bolt? Nope, the Chinese products can do that. Look nice and shiny? They can do that too. How about pull it on a nut welded on a large steel plate using a hydraulic ram until it breaks. That would look cool. Not sure if wrenches are required to do that however. Any other ideas?
Most of what I see here is strictly about attitudes about a certain country or quality issues from twenty years ago.
So how about it: America's best ( what would that be?) vs a branded Chinese made product from 2019. I'll throw in a Mastercraft branded wrench for the test.
So how you you test it. Tighten up a bolt? Nope, the Chinese products can do that. Look nice and shiny? They can do that too. How about pull it on a nut welded on a large steel plate using a hydraulic ram until it breaks. That would look cool. Not sure if wrenches are required to do that however. Any other ideas?
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Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
We need to get the project farm guy to torture test some of these " chinesium" tools I've been reading about here.
Most of what I see here is strictly about attitudes about a certain country or quality issues from twenty years ago.
So how about it: America's best ( what would that be?) vs a branded Chinese made product from 2019. I'll throw in a Mastercraft branded wrench for the test.
So how you you test it. Tighten up a bolt? Nope, the Chinese products can do that. Look nice and shiny? They can do that too. How about pull it on a nut welded on a large steel plate using a hydraulic ram until it breaks. That would look cool. Not sure if wrenches are required to do that however. Any other ideas?
Nope....It's got to be Chrome sockets!
We need to get the project farm guy to torture test some of these " chinesium" tools I've been reading about here.
Most of what I see here is strictly about attitudes about a certain country or quality issues from twenty years ago.
So how about it: America's best ( what would that be?) vs a branded Chinese made product from 2019. I'll throw in a Mastercraft branded wrench for the test.
So how you you test it. Tighten up a bolt? Nope, the Chinese products can do that. Look nice and shiny? They can do that too. How about pull it on a nut welded on a large steel plate using a hydraulic ram until it breaks. That would look cool. Not sure if wrenches are required to do that however. Any other ideas?
Nope....It's got to be Chrome sockets!
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
We need to get the project farm guy to torture test some of these " chinesium" tools I've been reading about here.
Most of what I see here is strictly about attitudes about a certain country or quality issues from twenty years ago.
So how about it: America's best ( what would that be?) vs a branded Chinese made product from 2019. I'll throw in a Mastercraft branded wrench for the test.
So how you you test it. Tighten up a bolt? Nope, the Chinese products can do that. Look nice and shiny? They can do that too. How about pull it on a nut welded on a large steel plate using a hydraulic ram until it breaks. That would look cool. Not sure if wrenches are required to do that however. Any other ideas?
AvE does it all the time.
We need to get the project farm guy to torture test some of these " chinesium" tools I've been reading about here.
Most of what I see here is strictly about attitudes about a certain country or quality issues from twenty years ago.
So how about it: America's best ( what would that be?) vs a branded Chinese made product from 2019. I'll throw in a Mastercraft branded wrench for the test.
So how you you test it. Tighten up a bolt? Nope, the Chinese products can do that. Look nice and shiny? They can do that too. How about pull it on a nut welded on a large steel plate using a hydraulic ram until it breaks. That would look cool. Not sure if wrenches are required to do that however. Any other ideas?
AvE does it all the time.
Originally Posted by dlundblad
One of my most prized possessions is a US made Craftsman mechanics tool set from 2010.
My wife (and son) got me a Craftsman mechanics tool set close to 20 years ago. I'm not a mechanic so they don't get used every day nor used hard but they are dam solid pieces. All made in the USA too. I looked up the letter codes on them that tells you what company actually made them but I don't remember who it is. I do recall that it was one of the "better" suppliers though. The case they provide sucks though. The thing had to much gap between the two sides so if you picked it up and carried it like a briefcase, every dam socket fell out of it's spot !
I've also inherited various ratchets and sockets from my Dad, my favorite being a small S&K set (3/8" ratchet and 6-pt metric sockets).
One of my most prized possessions is a US made Craftsman mechanics tool set from 2010.
My wife (and son) got me a Craftsman mechanics tool set close to 20 years ago. I'm not a mechanic so they don't get used every day nor used hard but they are dam solid pieces. All made in the USA too. I looked up the letter codes on them that tells you what company actually made them but I don't remember who it is. I do recall that it was one of the "better" suppliers though. The case they provide sucks though. The thing had to much gap between the two sides so if you picked it up and carried it like a briefcase, every dam socket fell out of it's spot !
I've also inherited various ratchets and sockets from my Dad, my favorite being a small S&K set (3/8" ratchet and 6-pt metric sockets).
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
We need to get the project farm guy to torture test some of these " chinesium" tools I've been reading about here.
Most of what I see here is strictly about attitudes about a certain country or quality issues from twenty years ago.
So how about it: America's best ( what would that be?) vs a branded Chinese made product from 2019. I'll throw in a Mastercraft branded wrench for the test.
So how you you test it. Tighten up a bolt? Nope, the Chinese products can do that. Look nice and shiny? They can do that too. How about pull it on a nut welded on a large steel plate using a hydraulic ram until it breaks. That would look cool. Not sure if wrenches are required to do that however. Any other ideas?
That's a pointless test other than bragging right, perfect for youtube but pointless for the real working people. That's like testing a Corolla vs a F150 in towing or picking up uber passengers.
The better test is the market place. Will people buy it at the price they want to sell it for, will companies sell it and make money in the long term (no scam, low return, customer satisfaction, brand reputations), and will the real working people like mechanics buy them at the price they charge.
We need to get the project farm guy to torture test some of these " chinesium" tools I've been reading about here.
Most of what I see here is strictly about attitudes about a certain country or quality issues from twenty years ago.
So how about it: America's best ( what would that be?) vs a branded Chinese made product from 2019. I'll throw in a Mastercraft branded wrench for the test.
So how you you test it. Tighten up a bolt? Nope, the Chinese products can do that. Look nice and shiny? They can do that too. How about pull it on a nut welded on a large steel plate using a hydraulic ram until it breaks. That would look cool. Not sure if wrenches are required to do that however. Any other ideas?
That's a pointless test other than bragging right, perfect for youtube but pointless for the real working people. That's like testing a Corolla vs a F150 in towing or picking up uber passengers.
The better test is the market place. Will people buy it at the price they want to sell it for, will companies sell it and make money in the long term (no scam, low return, customer satisfaction, brand reputations), and will the real working people like mechanics buy them at the price they charge.
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
We need to get the project farm guy to torture test some of these " chinesium" tools I've been reading about here.
Most of what I see here is strictly about attitudes about a certain country or quality issues from twenty years ago.
So how about it: America's best ( what would that be?) vs a branded Chinese made product from 2019. I'll throw in a Mastercraft branded wrench for the test.
So how you you test it. Tighten up a bolt? Nope, the Chinese products can do that. Look nice and shiny? They can do that too. How about pull it on a nut welded on a large steel plate using a hydraulic ram until it breaks. That would look cool. Not sure if wrenches are required to do that however. Any other ideas?
A tool's quality is the total package not simply a torture test. Those massive pot metal Chinese Craftsman wrenches might be stronger than a quality wrench that will actually fit where you need it to and not round over fasteners.
We need to get the project farm guy to torture test some of these " chinesium" tools I've been reading about here.
Most of what I see here is strictly about attitudes about a certain country or quality issues from twenty years ago.
So how about it: America's best ( what would that be?) vs a branded Chinese made product from 2019. I'll throw in a Mastercraft branded wrench for the test.
So how you you test it. Tighten up a bolt? Nope, the Chinese products can do that. Look nice and shiny? They can do that too. How about pull it on a nut welded on a large steel plate using a hydraulic ram until it breaks. That would look cool. Not sure if wrenches are required to do that however. Any other ideas?
A tool's quality is the total package not simply a torture test. Those massive pot metal Chinese Craftsman wrenches might be stronger than a quality wrench that will actually fit where you need it to and not round over fasteners.
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Originally Posted by hatt
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
We need to get the project farm guy to torture test some of these " chinesium" tools I've been reading about here.
Most of what I see here is strictly about attitudes about a certain country or quality issues from twenty years ago.
So how about it: America's best ( what would that be?) vs a branded Chinese made product from 2019. I'll throw in a Mastercraft branded wrench for the test.
So how you you test it. Tighten up a bolt? Nope, the Chinese products can do that. Look nice and shiny? They can do that too. How about pull it on a nut welded on a large steel plate using a hydraulic ram until it breaks. That would look cool. Not sure if wrenches are required to do that however. Any other ideas?
A tool's quality is the total package not simply a torture test. Those massive pot metal Chinese Craftsman wrenches might be stronger than a quality wrench that will actually fit where you need it to and not round over fasteners.
I certainly remember them; they were nicknamed lobster claw wrenches. But guess what. That was a long time ago. Have a look at a modern set of " branded" Chinese made wrenches. They are drop forged and same size as the best US wrenches.
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
We need to get the project farm guy to torture test some of these " chinesium" tools I've been reading about here.
Most of what I see here is strictly about attitudes about a certain country or quality issues from twenty years ago.
So how about it: America's best ( what would that be?) vs a branded Chinese made product from 2019. I'll throw in a Mastercraft branded wrench for the test.
So how you you test it. Tighten up a bolt? Nope, the Chinese products can do that. Look nice and shiny? They can do that too. How about pull it on a nut welded on a large steel plate using a hydraulic ram until it breaks. That would look cool. Not sure if wrenches are required to do that however. Any other ideas?
A tool's quality is the total package not simply a torture test. Those massive pot metal Chinese Craftsman wrenches might be stronger than a quality wrench that will actually fit where you need it to and not round over fasteners.
I certainly remember them; they were nicknamed lobster claw wrenches. But guess what. That was a long time ago. Have a look at a modern set of " branded" Chinese made wrenches. They are drop forged and same size as the best US wrenches.
The Chinese steel is still hit and miss, I bought a set of Gearwrench SAE ratchet wrenches on sale, I rarely ever use SAE but the first time I did the open end broke right off with very little pressure. I threw them out, they were not even worth the same old crap time and time again merry go round.
The metric ones that are older and Craftsman branded were made in Taiwan and have held up well.
The metric ones that are older and Craftsman branded were made in Taiwan and have held up well.
The OP is several years too late to start complaining about Sears management and Chinese Craftsman tools. The original Chinese Craftsman hand tools have already been updated, the first generation of "lobster claw" (oversized open end wrenches) are no longer (but I'm sure they'll show up here and there in the supply chain for years).
I have a good many older Craftsman tools. The only prized ones are my Grandfather's (which he marked), and my personally purchased BF Molybdenum Steel SAE wrench set. If you want some amusement, look up BF code Craftsman tools. Best wrench sets they ever made.
The rest are hit and miss on quality. The older Stanley era wrenches were skinny and hard on the hands. The last-ditch era USA made tools are really bad, I have a couple of ratchets that are almost unusable. I went though so many of the thin-wall sockets when they first came out I gave up and switched to SK. Famous Warranty is no good if all the most common Metric sizes are out of stock of every Sears in a metropolitan area for 3 years straight.
Not everyone is over the moon about old Craftsman tools and nostalgia. I gave up on them in the early 90's and good riddance.
I have a good many older Craftsman tools. The only prized ones are my Grandfather's (which he marked), and my personally purchased BF Molybdenum Steel SAE wrench set. If you want some amusement, look up BF code Craftsman tools. Best wrench sets they ever made.
The rest are hit and miss on quality. The older Stanley era wrenches were skinny and hard on the hands. The last-ditch era USA made tools are really bad, I have a couple of ratchets that are almost unusable. I went though so many of the thin-wall sockets when they first came out I gave up and switched to SK. Famous Warranty is no good if all the most common Metric sizes are out of stock of every Sears in a metropolitan area for 3 years straight.
Not everyone is over the moon about old Craftsman tools and nostalgia. I gave up on them in the early 90's and good riddance.
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