4 quarts of Valvoline MAXLIFE atf will cover it all
Last edited:
Dexron II for my '02 4Runner
- Thread starter Gebo
- Start date
- Status
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Originally Posted by jrvn
4 quarts of Valvoline MAXLIFE atf will cover it all
Maxlife is all I can find in a gallon jug … good stuff and good price … and that's what I need for the Cruze …
4 quarts of Valvoline MAXLIFE atf will cover it all
Maxlife is all I can find in a gallon jug … good stuff and good price … and that's what I need for the Cruze …
I sorta did a flush with Valvoline Dex/Merc. 10.7 qts is total capacity and I was able to drain 5.5 qts out two times and replace with the Valvoline. So I got to around 75% Dexron III in it now.
Just got my first case of Toyota ATF today and will be doing another 5.5 qt drain and fill 3 times with it to end up with virtually all Dex III and 90% Toyota.
I guess I got more money than I got good cents.
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2019/05/full-379-32354-img_2166.jpg "[Linked Image]")
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2019/05/full-379-32355-img_2167.jpg "[Linked Image]")
Just got my first case of Toyota ATF today and will be doing another 5.5 qt drain and fill 3 times with it to end up with virtually all Dex III and 90% Toyota.
I guess I got more money than I got good cents.
Originally Posted by kschachn
Just to be clear, you will not find a licensed dex II or dex III fluid since that is a dead spec and is no longer available for licensing.
This is true so you are left with few options in a non multi vehicle flavor. Pick a dex III/mercon flavor that meets your criteria.
Non max life or amsoil ect.
The castrol "American" dex/merc would be a good option. Not to be confused with the import flavor. I personally like how castrol broke down their fluid to two specs makes me feel like the fluid i am using is closer to what the manufacturer had in mind when it was built.
I am leery of fluids that say they cover all vehicles from a to z.
Plus moving to dex vi can have un intended consequences. Such as issue in some allison transmissions originally filled with dex iii by gm.
Just to be clear, you will not find a licensed dex II or dex III fluid since that is a dead spec and is no longer available for licensing.
This is true so you are left with few options in a non multi vehicle flavor. Pick a dex III/mercon flavor that meets your criteria.
Non max life or amsoil ect.
The castrol "American" dex/merc would be a good option. Not to be confused with the import flavor. I personally like how castrol broke down their fluid to two specs makes me feel like the fluid i am using is closer to what the manufacturer had in mind when it was built.
I am leery of fluids that say they cover all vehicles from a to z.
Plus moving to dex vi can have un intended consequences. Such as issue in some allison transmissions originally filled with dex iii by gm.
Quote
.....I am leery of fluids that say they cover all vehicles from a to z......
A 2017 article in Lubesngreases finds such concerns to be unwarranted, unfounded. Unfortunately, the article can no longer be seen without a subscription. Fortunately member Hootbro quoted key points from the article in his post in a thread about Multivehicle ATFs. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-meets-many-specs-how-can-it#Post4470618
Key points quoted "With some 12 million vehicles serviced annually with multi-vehicle ATF technologies, these fluids are providing the proper level of protection against transmission failure"
Further, " Based on additive company estimates, including an average vehicle mileage of 10,000 miles per year, multi-vehicle ATF technologies have accumulated over 5.5 trillion miles of real-world experience since their introduction"
I've have good results over many miles using MaxLife MV ATF in both Honda and an older Tacoma application, the latter specing DexII/III. So using the data and personal experience, chasing an old DexII/III ATF spec is an unnecessary exercise.
.....I am leery of fluids that say they cover all vehicles from a to z......
A 2017 article in Lubesngreases finds such concerns to be unwarranted, unfounded. Unfortunately, the article can no longer be seen without a subscription. Fortunately member Hootbro quoted key points from the article in his post in a thread about Multivehicle ATFs. https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...-meets-many-specs-how-can-it#Post4470618
Key points quoted "With some 12 million vehicles serviced annually with multi-vehicle ATF technologies, these fluids are providing the proper level of protection against transmission failure"
Further, " Based on additive company estimates, including an average vehicle mileage of 10,000 miles per year, multi-vehicle ATF technologies have accumulated over 5.5 trillion miles of real-world experience since their introduction"
I've have good results over many miles using MaxLife MV ATF in both Honda and an older Tacoma application, the latter specing DexII/III. So using the data and personal experience, chasing an old DexII/III ATF spec is an unnecessary exercise.
Sayjac, I'm glad you modified the ending of your initial post. Thank you! It was a little hurtful at 6:30 am.
I never have been a real fan of "One size fits All." As an example, my wife and her best friend can wear the same size yoga pants. One size fits all. However, the yoga pants look entirely different on each of them. One size will fit both applications but
it just ain't quite the same.
I am a "thicker is better guy" so that will help explain my tendency to disregard data when it goes against my "common sense". I see some universal ATF that says it is good for Dexron III, Mazda M-V, Toyota T-IV and WS when they are clearly different fluids. How can that be? It just won't compute in my "pea" brain. Many people will think I am a knucklehead but how can anyone say it is wrong to put the exact ATF in your transmission that is called for in the owner's manual? You can say it has been improved. I'll give you that. I just don't believe it.
I never have been a real fan of "One size fits All." As an example, my wife and her best friend can wear the same size yoga pants. One size fits all. However, the yoga pants look entirely different on each of them. One size will fit both applications but
it just ain't quite the same.
I am a "thicker is better guy" so that will help explain my tendency to disregard data when it goes against my "common sense". I see some universal ATF that says it is good for Dexron III, Mazda M-V, Toyota T-IV and WS when they are clearly different fluids. How can that be? It just won't compute in my "pea" brain. Many people will think I am a knucklehead but how can anyone say it is wrong to put the exact ATF in your transmission that is called for in the owner's manual? You can say it has been improved. I'll give you that. I just don't believe it.
Originally Posted by Gebo
Many people will think I am a knucklehead but how can anyone say it is wrong to put the exact ATF in your transmission that is called for in the owner's manual? You can say it has been improved. I'll give you that. I just don't believe it.
Nothing. But understand (again) that technically this is not possible because the specification listed in your owner's manual is no longer being licensed. Even so, you should at least try and comprehend the technical reasons for the other fluids especially the shear stability dictated by dexron VI. It offers something that dexron II or dexron III did not.
Also dexron VI is the official current specification for your vehicle.
Many people will think I am a knucklehead but how can anyone say it is wrong to put the exact ATF in your transmission that is called for in the owner's manual? You can say it has been improved. I'll give you that. I just don't believe it.
Nothing. But understand (again) that technically this is not possible because the specification listed in your owner's manual is no longer being licensed. Even so, you should at least try and comprehend the technical reasons for the other fluids especially the shear stability dictated by dexron VI. It offers something that dexron II or dexron III did not.
Also dexron VI is the official current specification for your vehicle.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Sure. To get a high end replacement for that old stuff you'd have to get Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF … and it's going to cost more than the many choices of Dex VI or universal stuff like Maxlife or Castrol …
That's what's out there that will get it done …
That's what's out there that will get it done …
kschachn,
I agree with some of your previous statement. That is why I went to Toyota to get their specific Dexron II/III fluid made specifically to use in my D-II requiring transmission.
See the pics above. I was not gonna settle for a generic Dexron III. At the largest Toyota dealership near me, they use this exact fluid in the older Toyotas and it sells for over $11/qt.
Ouch!
I agree with some of your previous statement. That is why I went to Toyota to get their specific Dexron II/III fluid made specifically to use in my D-II requiring transmission.
See the pics above. I was not gonna settle for a generic Dexron III. At the largest Toyota dealership near me, they use this exact fluid in the older Toyotas and it sells for over $11/qt.
Ouch!
Last edited:
I changed the term after the fact because technically the definition of the expression means, searching for something in vain. So a waste of time looking. Even though Dex II/III old spec now, and superseded even by GM to more current specs ( Dex VI), it can still be found. I note though that even the Toyota fluid says formulated to "replace" DexII/III..... IMO, that's a bit vague. Leaves open that the Toyota fluid 'could' be a more current Dex spec, Dex VI ?
As for MV ATF's, I posted a link to research/data based conclusions on their use. I find those types of conclusions and information much more meaningful than analogies unrelated directly to the topic.
After reading this board on Synthetic based ATF and thier lower starting viscosity, I've become convinced of their greater sheer stability than mineral based ATFs like DexII/III. GM says Dex VI is appropriate for use in Dex II/III applications.
All that said, your rides and if using Toyota labeled ATF makes you more confident in the results, that's what you should do. To each their own.
As for MV ATF's, I posted a link to research/data based conclusions on their use. I find those types of conclusions and information much more meaningful than analogies unrelated directly to the topic.
After reading this board on Synthetic based ATF and thier lower starting viscosity, I've become convinced of their greater sheer stability than mineral based ATFs like DexII/III. GM says Dex VI is appropriate for use in Dex II/III applications.
All that said, your rides and if using Toyota labeled ATF makes you more confident in the results, that's what you should do. To each their own.
Originally Posted by Gebo
kschachn,
I agree with some of your previous statement. That is why I went to Toyota to get their specific Dexron II/III fluid made specifically to use in my D-II requiring transmission.
See the pics above. I was not gonna settle for a generic Dexron III. At the largest Toyota dealership near me, they use this exact fluid in the older Toyotas and it sells for over $11/qt.
Ouch!
I wouldn't call any fluid that meets Tes 389 specs a generic fluid. I wouldn't think Toyota would change the fluid all that much. I went with Castrol Dex/Merc in my Kia's ps pump because psf3 is essentially dex2. Also it's a stout fluid with a good viscosity index and additive package. Would love to see an analysis of that Toyota dex2/3 to see how it holds up against other Dexs.
kschachn,
I agree with some of your previous statement. That is why I went to Toyota to get their specific Dexron II/III fluid made specifically to use in my D-II requiring transmission.
See the pics above. I was not gonna settle for a generic Dexron III. At the largest Toyota dealership near me, they use this exact fluid in the older Toyotas and it sells for over $11/qt.
Ouch!
I wouldn't call any fluid that meets Tes 389 specs a generic fluid. I wouldn't think Toyota would change the fluid all that much. I went with Castrol Dex/Merc in my Kia's ps pump because psf3 is essentially dex2. Also it's a stout fluid with a good viscosity index and additive package. Would love to see an analysis of that Toyota dex2/3 to see how it holds up against other Dexs.
Originally Posted by Gebo
Sayjac, I'm glad you modified the ending of your initial post. Thank you! It was a little hurtful at 6:30 am.
I never have been a real fan of "One size fits All." As an example, my wife and her best friend can wear the same size yoga pants. One size fits all. However, the yoga pants look entirely different on each of them. One size will fit both applications but
it just ain't quite the same.
I am a "thicker is better guy" so that will help explain my tendency to disregard data when it goes against my "common sense". I see some universal ATF that says it is good for Dexron III, Mazda M-V, Toyota T-IV and WS when they are clearly different fluids. How can that be? It just won't compute in my "pea" brain. Many people will think I am a knucklehead but how can anyone say it is wrong to put the exact ATF in your transmission that is called for in the owner's manual? You can say it has been improved. I'll give you that. I just don't believe it.
Your post shows the ignorance of the public at large most OEM used GM copies of transmissions thus most ATF's are DEXRON copies. This is why "one size fits all" is safe to use unless specifically not recommended by the blender.
Sayjac, I'm glad you modified the ending of your initial post. Thank you! It was a little hurtful at 6:30 am.
I never have been a real fan of "One size fits All." As an example, my wife and her best friend can wear the same size yoga pants. One size fits all. However, the yoga pants look entirely different on each of them. One size will fit both applications but
it just ain't quite the same.
I am a "thicker is better guy" so that will help explain my tendency to disregard data when it goes against my "common sense". I see some universal ATF that says it is good for Dexron III, Mazda M-V, Toyota T-IV and WS when they are clearly different fluids. How can that be? It just won't compute in my "pea" brain. Many people will think I am a knucklehead but how can anyone say it is wrong to put the exact ATF in your transmission that is called for in the owner's manual? You can say it has been improved. I'll give you that. I just don't believe it.
Your post shows the ignorance of the public at large most OEM used GM copies of transmissions thus most ATF's are DEXRON copies. This is why "one size fits all" is safe to use unless specifically not recommended by the blender.
Is it not possible the "one size fits all" devotees could be the ignorant ones? Please notice I am not calling you ignorant
Just hypothetically speaking. Just asking "Could it be possible?"
I've often wondered why most Japanese cars (that I am aware of) still have Dexron III on their power steering caps? I guess Toyota engineers are not aware that we have Dexron VI. They are probably still using up old power steering caps from 2005 they have left in inventory. Like I said earlier, my little pea brain wonders about such.
Just hypothetically speaking. Just asking "Could it be possible?"
I've often wondered why most Japanese cars (that I am aware of) still have Dexron III on their power steering caps? I guess Toyota engineers are not aware that we have Dexron VI. They are probably still using up old power steering caps from 2005 they have left in inventory. Like I said earlier, my little pea brain wonders about such.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
In fact the Castrol MV ATF (I haved used for years) has Dex VI approvals …
Originally Posted by Gebo
Is it not possible the "one size fits all" devotees could be the ignorant ones? Please notice I am not calling you ignorant
Just hypothetically speaking. Just asking "Could it be possible?"
I've often wondered why most Japanese cars (that I am aware of) still have Dexron III on their power steering caps? I guess Toyota engineers are not aware that we have Dexron VI. They are probably still using up old power steering caps from 2005 they have left in inventory. Like I said earlier, my little pea brain wonders about such.
The history of ATF and AT's is posted in this forum a few times the majority of OEM are DEXRON clones.
Is it not possible the "one size fits all" devotees could be the ignorant ones? Please notice I am not calling you ignorant
Just hypothetically speaking. Just asking "Could it be possible?"
I've often wondered why most Japanese cars (that I am aware of) still have Dexron III on their power steering caps? I guess Toyota engineers are not aware that we have Dexron VI. They are probably still using up old power steering caps from 2005 they have left in inventory. Like I said earlier, my little pea brain wonders about such.
The history of ATF and AT's is posted in this forum a few times the majority of OEM are DEXRON clones.
Originally Posted by kschachn
……... Even so, you should at least try and comprehend the technical reasons for the other fluids especially the shear stability dictated by dexron VI. It offers something that dexron II or dexron III did not......Also dexron VI is the official current specification for your vehicle.
Completely agree. Also as evidenced in the ATF information in PQIA link. http://www.pqiamerica.com/TIMELINE 5-23-2013rv23.pdf
And a link showing why Dex VI is the superior fluid. Improvements in DexVI over DexIII
Obviously, that does require an acceptance of research and data based findings and conclusions on the subject.
Since word already broached (not by me) here, as regards the previous sentence there is another saying....For some, Ignorance is bliss. As repeated caveat, speaking in generalities, not pointing to anyone specifically.
……... Even so, you should at least try and comprehend the technical reasons for the other fluids especially the shear stability dictated by dexron VI. It offers something that dexron II or dexron III did not......Also dexron VI is the official current specification for your vehicle.
Completely agree. Also as evidenced in the ATF information in PQIA link. http://www.pqiamerica.com/TIMELINE 5-23-2013rv23.pdf
And a link showing why Dex VI is the superior fluid. Improvements in DexVI over DexIII
Obviously, that does require an acceptance of research and data based findings and conclusions on the subject.
Since word already broached (not by me) here, as regards the previous sentence there is another saying....For some, Ignorance is bliss. As repeated caveat, speaking in generalities, not pointing to anyone specifically.
I'm anxious to see how the shifting changes in a few hundred miles, if at all. I got a 75% Toyota Dexron II/III mix in the tranny now. Got one more drain and fill to get to 90% Toyota OEM and I'll stay there for 20K and do another drain and fill every 20K. That will be getting 50% new fluid in every 20K.
Professor John Kelly at Weber State had really been a blessing to me in this matter. He did a great job explaining to me how to choose the proper transmission fluids. I am so blissed.
Professor John Kelly at Weber State had really been a blessing to me in this matter. He did a great job explaining to me how to choose the proper transmission fluids. I am so blissed.
It is just the drain plug. It can be whatever it is but it is the transmission that defines the spec.
Personally I think DII < DIII < Mercon V < (for your Toyota T-IV < WS) < Dexron VI. This whole "every car needs a different ATF" thing is getting annoying, so I'm starting to just standardizing my fleet on Maxlife now (maybe Supertech Dexron VI in the future, we'll see).
I'd probably not do this if I live in extreme weather, but my climate is between 50F to 80F year round, with only a few weeks here and there below 40F or above 90F, so likely won't push the spec too much. 30k in my climate won't be too stressful anyways.
Personally I think DII < DIII < Mercon V < (for your Toyota T-IV < WS) < Dexron VI. This whole "every car needs a different ATF" thing is getting annoying, so I'm starting to just standardizing my fleet on Maxlife now (maybe Supertech Dexron VI in the future, we'll see).
I'd probably not do this if I live in extreme weather, but my climate is between 50F to 80F year round, with only a few weeks here and there below 40F or above 90F, so likely won't push the spec too much. 30k in my climate won't be too stressful anyways.
Quote
…... I am so blissed......
Indeed.
Just reading this thread, I don't see where anyone posited that the transmission would be in imminent danger of failure using a DexII/III labeled ATF here. Especially so with 20k mi. d&fs. What I do see is comments pointing out and linking to the benefits of using a current spec synthetic based ATFs like MaxLife and DexVI. One those being the research proven greater sheer stability of the latter current spec ATFs. Another being the added cost benefit, especially so using the quoted price on the Toyota fluid labeled as replacement for DexII/III (~$11/qt
). That as compared to ML as an example, available at/through WM (~$18/gal).
Bottom line, some good information provided in this thread for those with a similar question. What one does with it, a matter of choice.
…... I am so blissed......
Indeed.
Just reading this thread, I don't see where anyone posited that the transmission would be in imminent danger of failure using a DexII/III labeled ATF here. Especially so with 20k mi. d&fs. What I do see is comments pointing out and linking to the benefits of using a current spec synthetic based ATFs like MaxLife and DexVI. One those being the research proven greater sheer stability of the latter current spec ATFs. Another being the added cost benefit, especially so using the quoted price on the Toyota fluid labeled as replacement for DexII/III (~$11/qt
Bottom line, some good information provided in this thread for those with a similar question. What one does with it, a matter of choice.
- Status
Similar threads
