2015 Honda Civic PuP 0W-20, 7170 miles, 1 year
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Originally Posted by tiger862
I have noticed this with Pennzoil in general. My personal opinion is GTL base since it starts as gas it doesn't hold up on longer runs especially if you have fuel dilution.
I'd say this shoots your personal opinion down. There is nothing wrong with GTL and it certainly holds up just fine. This was 17,1xx miles on PUP 5W20.
![[Linked Image]](https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2017/11/full-49080-15834-fusion_17k_uoa.png "[Linked Image]")
I have noticed this with Pennzoil in general. My personal opinion is GTL base since it starts as gas it doesn't hold up on longer runs especially if you have fuel dilution.
I'd say this shoots your personal opinion down. There is nothing wrong with GTL and it certainly holds up just fine. This was 17,1xx miles on PUP 5W20.
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Originally Posted by PPWarrior
The issue is the inferior oil that you are using. I will keep it American and go for Valvoline or Mobil 1.
BUT,Sopus is based in Houston,Tx,so it's American AND Texan :^D (with a dash of Dutch and British ;^) )
The issue is the inferior oil that you are using. I will keep it American and go for Valvoline or Mobil 1.
BUT,Sopus is based in Houston,Tx,so it's American AND Texan :^D (with a dash of Dutch and British ;^) )
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About your uoa,maybe bump up the viscosity and go a lil thicker?
I don't think you need to worry about the 1.8 engine. They are solid engines. If it were me I'd forget doing the oil samples and just enjoy the car. Even with "accelerated" wear it will still probably last 300k+ miles. Think of all the people with those engines (2006-2015 Civic's) that bring them to Jiffy Lube and run them 2 quarts low on oil...
The aluminum isn't crazy high. If it were 100ppm or higher I would be concerned. This is still a fairly young engine. I would monitor for a trend and as long as it trends downward in the very least in the next couple of oil changes I wouldn't be concerned at all.
You can use Wix $10 test kits from RockAuto to monitor this so it's not as expensive as Blackstone because you don't really need the interpretation, just a way to monitor.
You can use Wix $10 test kits from RockAuto to monitor this so it's not as expensive as Blackstone because you don't really need the interpretation, just a way to monitor.
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Thanks for the replies guys.
I did check the air filter a few months ago. No damage, not even dirty despite not having been changed since the car was new, still the OEM one.
I will go check it again, the insolubles DO seem a little higher than my previous oil changes on similar Hondas (usually 0.3%).
I don't know what going to 5W-20 would do for me given that the engine is specced for 0W-20 (granted it is the same line R18 used in the 8th Civic and those specced 5W-20). Also I've used 0W-20 on an 8th Civic using R18A1 and had results that were better, the difference was those were using Mobil 1...
Maybe it was something wrong with the filter? I was using the Filtech 15400-PLM-A01. I was always uncomfortable with that one due to the weird no endcap design (just a ring of glue forms a sort of end cap). The one I'm using now is the Fram 15400-PLM-A02. Maybe the results will be different? Same oil, different filter.
I did check the air filter a few months ago. No damage, not even dirty despite not having been changed since the car was new, still the OEM one.
I will go check it again, the insolubles DO seem a little higher than my previous oil changes on similar Hondas (usually 0.3%).
I don't know what going to 5W-20 would do for me given that the engine is specced for 0W-20 (granted it is the same line R18 used in the 8th Civic and those specced 5W-20). Also I've used 0W-20 on an 8th Civic using R18A1 and had results that were better, the difference was those were using Mobil 1...
Maybe it was something wrong with the filter? I was using the Filtech 15400-PLM-A01. I was always uncomfortable with that one due to the weird no endcap design (just a ring of glue forms a sort of end cap). The one I'm using now is the Fram 15400-PLM-A02. Maybe the results will be different? Same oil, different filter.
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Originally Posted by tiger862
I have noticed this with Pennzoil in general. My personal opinion is GTL base since it starts as gas it doesn't hold up on longer runs especially if you have fuel dilution.
I'd say this shoots your personal opinion down. There is nothing wrong with GTL and it certainly holds up just fine. This was 17,1xx miles on PUP 5W20.
Nope. Your oil thickened out of grade and flashpoint is off as well. Looks like your oil was on the verge of sludge. To long of a run. You can believe it would go 18k if you want to. I have replaced engines that are sludge at this point.
Originally Posted by tiger862
I have noticed this with Pennzoil in general. My personal opinion is GTL base since it starts as gas it doesn't hold up on longer runs especially if you have fuel dilution.
I'd say this shoots your personal opinion down. There is nothing wrong with GTL and it certainly holds up just fine. This was 17,1xx miles on PUP 5W20.
Nope. Your oil thickened out of grade and flashpoint is off as well. Looks like your oil was on the verge of sludge. To long of a run. You can believe it would go 18k if you want to. I have replaced engines that are sludge at this point.
Originally Posted by PimTac
"Those noises you heard sound like something in the aluminum piston area is scraping more than it should."
Can anyone really hear pistons scraping
Well, piston slap is audible. This could be something similar-ish. It would resonate in the cavities.
I am wildly speculating here, going off of the "sliding" sound the OP said he heard. What else would "slide"?
"Those noises you heard sound like something in the aluminum piston area is scraping more than it should."
Can anyone really hear pistons scraping
Well, piston slap is audible. This could be something similar-ish. It would resonate in the cavities.
I am wildly speculating here, going off of the "sliding" sound the OP said he heard. What else would "slide"?
Also keep in mind this sound occurred while I was attempting to crank the engine, without the starter actually cranking. That's what makes me think it has nothing to do with the engine and it's something with the starter.
I could understand it being within the engine if the starter was cranking while the sound was happening, but it wasn't. If the starter wasn't doing its normal cranking, nothing inside the engine was moving right?
I could understand it being within the engine if the starter was cranking while the sound was happening, but it wasn't. If the starter wasn't doing its normal cranking, nothing inside the engine was moving right?
I found a video that closely matches the sound I heard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_rakBnIayU
This sounds exactly like what I heard, also what I heard when it happened to a family member's 8th Civic. I'm convinced it's a starter issue now and had no effect on the oil.
Does anyone know what the bearings are made of in a Honda? Don't most bearings use white metal or multiple layers of metals? The top layer is always aluminum?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_rakBnIayU
This sounds exactly like what I heard, also what I heard when it happened to a family member's 8th Civic. I'm convinced it's a starter issue now and had no effect on the oil.
Does anyone know what the bearings are made of in a Honda? Don't most bearings use white metal or multiple layers of metals? The top layer is always aluminum?
Originally Posted by NoNameJoe
I'm convinced it's a starter issue now and had no effect on the oil.
OK, you're proably right. I was mixing the other problem (" hard time, barely catching on") with the non-crank issue.
Starter clutch not engaging sometimes.
![[Linked Image]](https://www.howacarworks.com/illustration/74/pre-engaged-starter.png "[Linked Image]")
reference credit to: https://www.howacarworks.com/basics/how-the-starting-system-works
Originally Posted by NoNameJoe
Does anyone know what the bearings are made of in a Honda? Don't most bearings use white metal or multiple layers of metals? The top layer is always aluminum?
Yes aluminum top material on that engine. https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=5539089&jsn=3 Everybody it seems has gone to aluminum-silicon alloys now. The polymer coatings on top are popular with start-stop engines and Corvettes too, not yours.
I'm convinced it's a starter issue now and had no effect on the oil.
OK, you're proably right. I was mixing the other problem (" hard time, barely catching on") with the non-crank issue.
Starter clutch not engaging sometimes.
Originally Posted by NoNameJoe
Does anyone know what the bearings are made of in a Honda? Don't most bearings use white metal or multiple layers of metals? The top layer is always aluminum?
Yes aluminum top material on that engine. https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=5539089&jsn=3 Everybody it seems has gone to aluminum-silicon alloys now. The polymer coatings on top are popular with start-stop engines and Corvettes too, not yours.
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by PimTac
"Those noises you heard sound like something in the aluminum piston area is scraping more than it should."
Can anyone really hear pistons scraping
Well, piston slap is audible. This could be something similar-ish. It would resonate in the cavities.
I am wildly speculating here, going off of the "sliding" sound the OP said he heard. What else would "slide"?
I was throwing out some ideas. It sounds like the OP has determined it is the starter or something connected to the starter. Flywheel ring gear? Starter gear?
If one could hear pistons sliding then my guess would be that engine will be failing imminently. Piston slap has a unique sound.
Originally Posted by PimTac
"Those noises you heard sound like something in the aluminum piston area is scraping more than it should."
Can anyone really hear pistons scraping
Well, piston slap is audible. This could be something similar-ish. It would resonate in the cavities.
I am wildly speculating here, going off of the "sliding" sound the OP said he heard. What else would "slide"?
I was throwing out some ideas. It sounds like the OP has determined it is the starter or something connected to the starter. Flywheel ring gear? Starter gear?
If one could hear pistons sliding then my guess would be that engine will be failing imminently. Piston slap has a unique sound.
I guess I just have to try a lower OCI and the Wix test kits to see if it goes away. What annoys me is I may never find out what it was. Was it an incorrectly done test? Was it some kind of contamination? Was it actual damage? Was it caused by the oil? The filter? If it was the oil I won't know until at least the next oil change. Maybe my driving style? I tend to drive long highway miles at high gear, low RPM, maybe 70-75mph with RPMs down at 1500 for long stretches. I'm very gentle on the throttle and try to drive as if I don't have brakes (if I see a red light up ahead, I'll coast rather than speed like a maniac and jams the brakes at the light).
I guess in the grand scheme of things ~27ppm is tiny, but still alarms me if it's wearing. Especially because I've done about six or so UOA's and this is the first time anything like this has popped up.
I checked the air filter yesterday, with a flashlight and everything. Air filter is still clean, barely dirty, no holes, seals fine. It's OEM and fits perfectly too. No dust on the inboard side of the air cleaner housing either.
I'm stumped.
I guess in the grand scheme of things ~27ppm is tiny, but still alarms me if it's wearing. Especially because I've done about six or so UOA's and this is the first time anything like this has popped up.
I checked the air filter yesterday, with a flashlight and everything. Air filter is still clean, barely dirty, no holes, seals fine. It's OEM and fits perfectly too. No dust on the inboard side of the air cleaner housing either.
I'm stumped.
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