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Re: Ram Hemi hydraulic lifter failure...oil related? [Re: OVERKILL] #5096029 05/04/19 10:07 PM
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JosephA Offline
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Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by JosephA


That being the case, what happens to the normal oil flow if the lock-pin hole is left open during "locked" operation? You already know what my theory suggests....but for the record, I did not come up with this myself.....This came from an automotive engineer.

Joe


Nothing. The passages for the conventional oiling don't overlap with the MDS cavity as can be viewed in both cutaway diagrams I posted.


Granted. And you might be correct. I'm going to disassemble an MDS lifter as well as a solid lifter to examine the internals. I have just examined the lifters again tonight and I found another common factor from the damaged lifters to the good lifters.

The damaged lifters are all stuck, without any spring action on the pushrod seat. In some or most cases, this will not cause oil flow to stop, but might causing tapping as this happened to my 5.7 Vortec on my Suburban prior to rebuilding the engine.

I do not yet know the cause for the seizure, and I am not yet certain if a stuck lifters would prevent oil flow to the rollers.

I read somewhere that on some of the lifters, the oil flows from the bottom up towards the pushrods, while on other lifters the oil flows from the top down.

I am trying to determine how the lifter rollers receive oil. Does the oil flow from the top of the lifter and down? Does the roller get oil from as passage way in the block?

There has to be a logical reason why the #8 lifter was bone dry and its roller gone/destroyed.

Some on here have suggested the problem to be with a faulty lifter design. But is it a design flaw, or a lack of lubrication flow, or even both?

I know I'm being stubborn guys, but that is how I've always been. I will not repair an engine or any equipment until I first understand the reason for its failure. So bare with me if I seem to pushy and adamant. Some of you on here appear to be engaging with me with great patience and understanding. But there are a few of you on here that are just here to stir up trouble and detract a discussion to flood our examinations with ill intentions...these are often called trolls or schills being paid to detract a debate or discussion by smearing it with emotion and lies. I'll just ignore them from now on.

Finally, I tested the plastic keeper, and I was able to rotate the lifter by a few degrees merely by twisting the lifter in the plastic keeper by hand. A valve spring and camshaft both provide more torque than what my wrist can apply, so there is no doubt now that some of the lifters (as a Chrysler mechanic informed me a few days ago) that the lifters can rotate, some as far as 90 degrees, thereby destroying the roller no matter how much oil it gets.

Summary: All damaged lifters are stuck and the push rod has no spring action. Moreover, the MDS lifters with off-centered lock pins are also stuck. I also plan on testing the MDS lifters by unlocking the pins (pushing them in) in a vice and using a press to see how far I can compress the internals of the lifters, if even at all. It's hard to do this when the roller is not stationary.

Last edited by JosephA; 05/04/19 10:11 PM.
Re: Ram Hemi hydraulic lifter failure...oil related? [Re: Shannow] #5096061 05/04/19 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Shannow
The cutaway of the lifter had me scratching my head for a while, so I pondered it as I mowed (where I do my best engineering)...

Then it hit me, the hydraulic lash adjuster NRV is upside down, indicating flow from above downward...and in order for the lock pins to unlock there's a cavity behind it with no pressure.

A little googling, and YES, the hydraulic lash adjusting mechanism is fed from the pushrod.

The regular lifters have the lash adjuster supplied in the regular location...however the lifter body and rollers are lubricated exactly the same way, from the same gallery...can see both details on the second pic lifted from a youtube vid...same gallery and relief for body/roller oiling...just the drilling for the lash adjuster on the non MDS lifter.

So -
Body is lubed like the others.
Roller is lubed like the others
The lash adjuster is fed from the pushrod end on MDS lifters, body end on non MDS lifters.


Thank you! Excellent information. And I like mowing too for my best "engineering" work.
banana Looks like we may have something in common. When I worked F-16's, I used to go home, pull out my John Deere, and ask myself, "Why does the Jet Fuel Starter (JFS) doors keep trying to close during the start process"? Usually by bed time after playing the entire start circuit from start to finish, the answer usually hits me. I have to admit though; electrical problems are not my foretaste. It took me 2 years to figure out why my fuel pump would keep shutting off on hot humid days, yet run smoothly during cool dry days. I knew it had to be an electrical problem based on its characteristics. Despite having tested every fuse box wire, complete fuel system wiring harness, and even the fuel pump itself, I was totally stumped. Until one day while washing my Suburban, something told me to examine the relay. It was black. So I changed it and that solved the problem for a while, until once again my truck would die for no reason while on the highway (scary yes). So I checked the new relay (painted white) and it too was turning black. So I started ohms checking the wiring at the relay circuit and all checked good. I even tested the 10 second delay circuit (when you first rotate the key to the on position), and that didn't lead to a resolution. So I popped open a corona, and I was staring at the relay connections, as well as the prongs for the relay itself (5 pins). And there it was, hidden in the deep clevises of the relay prong contacts of the fuse box. The tiny contact for the relay prongs was bent. So I used a tiny flat tipped screw driver and a needle scribe (a type of needle with a bent tip) and pulled the little contract straighter. And PRESO! Problem solved. But I would not have found that had I not understood the entire operation of the fuel system.

It's the same with this Hemi. I love the Hemi engine. It's fast! It's powerful! And the gas mileage, while poor, does not bother me. But this blasted lifter and camshaft problem has me stumped. I thought I had found the problem after noticing my failed MDS lifters soaked in oil, while the 2 non-MDS lifters were dry and damaged.

It appears I might be wrong, but I'm not yet willing to concede just yet. After all, it still might be an oil supply issue. I have just discovered that my damaged lifters are all stuck, meaning I cannot push down on them. But even so, since the rollers receive oil from the galley, then what is causing the darn things to heat up, chaff, and eventually be destroyed? Could it be an oiling problem? if so, how? Or could it be just crappy lifter design, or possibly a very large bad batch of lifters from a specific plant.

If these lifters were made in China, that might explain things. LOL

Joe

Re: Ram Hemi hydraulic lifter failure...oil related? [Re: JosephA] #5096063 05/04/19 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JosephA


I read somewhere that on some of the lifters, the oil flows from the bottom up towards the pushrods, while on other lifters the oil flows from the top down.

I am trying to determine how the lifter rollers receive oil. Does the oil flow from the top of the lifter and down? Does the roller get oil from as passage way in the block?


If we look back at the oil flow diagram I posted earlier:
[Linked Image]

You can see that there are two main feeds, per bank, both branched into the rocker area. I'm guessing this is what back-feeds the oil down through the pushrods on the MDS cylinders as per what Shannow is describing. This is performed in this manner so that you aren't pressurizing the lower part of the lifter body (where the lifter inside the lifter works on the spring) to get oil up to the hydraulic section of the lifter. Rather, oil comes down through the pushrod, filing that upper section, and then flowing through the passage that is visible in the cutaway pictures into the lower section where it goes out the hole in the bottom of the body onto the roller. You can see these in that picture where I added all the labels to show the different oil passages.

Originally Posted by JosephA
There has to be a logical reason why the #8 lifter was bone dry and its roller gone/destroyed.


For this type of investigation you would have to use two separate approaches, due to the slight difference in how the roller is lubricated:
- if it's an MDS lifter, the roller would be lubricated from the pushrod down, so follow the path and look for a blockage. Is the lifter blocked internally? You should be able to pressurize the pushrod feed hole at the top and have it come out just above the roller. However, if the BODY is dry, that's lubed the same way regardless of MDS or non, so that's an important distinction.
- On the non-MDS lifters the hydraulic pressure feed to the body (the hole in the lower belt of the lifter, where it interfaces the main lifter feed gallery) feeds the roller the same way. So you'd look for a restriction or blockage there on back.


Originally Posted by JosephA
Some on here have suggested the problem to be with a faulty lifter design. But is it a design flaw, or a lack of lubrication flow, or even both?

It could be poor QC on the lifters. But we've got several theories going on here and I'm not sure I'd put that one on the top of my list.

Originally Posted by JosephA
Finally, I tested the plastic keeper, and I was able to rotate the lifter by a few degrees merely by twisting the lifter in the plastic keeper by hand. A valve spring and camshaft both provide more torque than what my wrist can apply, so there is no doubt now that some of the lifters (as a Chrysler mechanic informed me a few days ago) that the lifters can rotate, some as far as 90 degrees, thereby destroying the roller no matter how much oil it gets.

Remember though, that the forces provided by the rest of the valvetrain are on a completely separate plane from what would be required to rotate the lifter. There would be essentially zero rotational force being applied to it, the plastic retainer simply acts as a guide to ensure they are straight. Now, of course, if that guide gets worn or deformed then there is the possibility that through its motions the lifter rotates a bit, skates, stops rolling, and then potentially could lock up or cause a funky wear pattern, since it is no longer straight, rolling along the profile of the lobe.

Originally Posted by JosephA
Summary: All damaged lifters are stuck and the push rod has no spring action. Moreover, the MDS lifters with off-centered lock pins are also stuck. I also plan on testing the MDS lifters by unlocking the pins (pushing them in) in a vice and using a press to see how far I can compress the internals of the lifters, if even at all. It's hard to do this when the roller is not stationary.


It's not uncommon for used lifters to stay "pumped up" and thus difficult to depress, because they are still full of oil. You should be able to blow them out with air.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Ram Hemi hydraulic lifter failure...oil related? [Re: BullyT] #5096193 05/05/19 06:02 AM
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Shannow Online Content
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Are we in fact sure that the roller is directly lubricated ?

Can't see where they are lubricated with anything other than splash, spray, and drainback like an SBC/SBF.


If it's the truth....it can handle the pressure !!!
Re: Ram Hemi hydraulic lifter failure...oil related? [Re: Shannow] #5096275 05/05/19 08:17 AM
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OVERKILL Offline
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Originally Posted by Shannow
Are we in fact sure that the roller is directly lubricated ?

Can't see where they are lubricated with anything other than splash, spray, and drainback like an SBC/SBF.



I'm going by this picture:
[Linked Image]

Which shows a hole below the internal springs that would dump a small amount of oil onto the roller after it has flowed through the orifice that runs between the MDS pins (lubricating those bores I assume). You can see these same passages in the diagram you posted.


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Ram Hemi hydraulic lifter failure...oil related? [Re: BullyT] #5096279 05/05/19 08:21 AM
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Shannow:

Just found this picture which confirms the hole:
[Linked Image]


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Ram Hemi hydraulic lifter failure...oil related? [Re: BullyT] #5096705 05/05/19 04:36 PM
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Shannow Online Content
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OVERKILL...definitely get that but the regulars non MDS lifters would have to be sealed at the lower end.

Thus my supposition that the rollers are incidentally rather than intentionally lubricated...a lot of valvetrains are.


If it's the truth....it can handle the pressure !!!
Re: Ram Hemi hydraulic lifter failure...oil related? [Re: BullyT] #5097069 05/06/19 01:20 AM
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You all are very knowledgeable !!! I don't understand %90 of what's being discussed shocked2 but I told my hemi friend to check this out.
He asked me if he gets free oil or discounts if he joins since its an oil site ... Not kidding you! lol
Nice to have experts sharing their knowledge and I mean everyone!

Re: Ram Hemi hydraulic lifter failure...oil related? [Re: Shannow] #5097146 05/06/19 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Shannow
OVERKILL...definitely get that but the regulars non MDS lifters would have to be sealed at the lower end.

Thus my supposition that the rollers are incidentally rather than intentionally lubricated...a lot of valvetrains are.


It LOOKS like there is an open "slot" in the non-MDS ones.... I wonder if there is a small orifice that allows some oil to go down that way, while still providing sufficient volume to the HLA section? I guess my thought here is that if Chrysler went to the trouble to make the MDS ones lubricated directly, that they would do the same to the non-MDS ones and this may have something to do with the engine design that prevents sufficient lubrication from being provided via other means like the older SBF and SBC examples shrug Of course the other possibility is that they needed to provide lube to the MDS springs in the lower half of the lifter and somewhere for that oil to go after, hence the hole. But then why the slot for the non-MDS ones?


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Ram Hemi hydraulic lifter failure...oil related? [Re: BullyT] #5099788 05/08/19 05:37 PM
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JosephA Offline
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Greetings all!

My apologies for not having posted on here these past few days. I've been extremely busy with personal home life chores, as well as conducting tons of research on the route to take with this troubled 2012 Dodge Ram.

I was about to purchase the MDS delete kit from MMX. But something told me not to do it. I examined the lifters supplied with MMX (I think it stands for Mopar Muscle Extreme) and I realized those are the same lifters used on the Hellcat. Yet we've seen a few Hellcats with (or without) the MDS dropping lifters. So I decided not to buy the kit at a wopping cost of about $1,200 bucks, plus an additional $245 for the oil pump and another $122 for the timing chain; all together about $1,500 dollars. I'm glad I was patient in my decision and so I've decided not to buy the MDS delete kit from MMX.

I spoke to Johnson company (gentlemen's name is Joe) who designs lifters, and his company offers 2 types; oil and non-oiled, and both (to-date) have had a zero fail rate. He does not sell them to personal buyers; only to companies. So he put me in contact with a experienced engineer and performance engine builder named Rockford in Michigan (goes by the name Billy). LOL Anyways, this Billy guy knows his crap and was straight forward with me about the problems involved with the 5.7 Hemi's. Some of you might not agree with the information he provided me, but he seems quite trustworthy.

So basically here is what I'll be buying.

1. New design lifters (non-oiled) with partially closed in rollers; oil supplied to the rollers from "splash". He also has the oiled based lifters (with its own internal pathway), but he mentioned that using factory oil will cause a reduction in oil volume (not pressure) unless 5W-30 is used. By the way, I will be using 5W-30 during the winter, and 10W-30 during the summer. I'll explain later.
2. Gentlemen named Rockford will be having a camshaft cut for me to match the lifters I'm buying from Johnson (company).
3. Programmer (MDS Delete) from MMX to also include the gaskets, MDS solenoid plugs, and a new lifter keeper to fit the new lifters (also supplied by MMX)

Thus far, those who have performed the following beef-up of the Hemi saw an increase of about 20% to 30% percent in torque and horsepower, and so-far there have been no lifter failures with some engines higher than 120,000 miles after this repair. Oil recommended is no less than 5W-30, although some have reported using 10W-40...not sure why.

Now about the oil. It appears Chrysler chose to use the lighter weight engine oil in order to allow the MDS system to be more responsive. When the MDS lifters must reactivate (lock), it was explained to me that a thinner viscosity oil (-20) or 5W-20 was needed for quicker response of the lifters. Whether or not this is true I cannot say. But it makes sense to me. You all of course have a right to disagree.

Once I am done with the repairs, I will keep everyone updated. I hope that this will solve the problems.

I'm convinced the pressure was placed on both GM and Chrysler to improve fuel efficiency standards. And with the high demand for V8 engine power (naturally aspirated of course), the displacement on demand (DOD) and the Multi-Displacement System (MDS) were instituted in order to help increase fuel efficiency in order to satisfy EPA fuel efficiency requirements. First of all, who the [censored] put those guys in charge? Since when are companies (or us for that matter) subjected to them? And since when are people (to include companies) responsible for abiding by the mandates of an organization that was never created nor established by "We The People"?

Americans have forgotten that Citizens of the United States are the true sovereign's and not government or any of its agencies. Government was designed to work for the people, and by the people; their job is to serve us; not mandate policies for their own personal and sordid gain. Unfortunately, it appears agencies like the EPA can somehow make it difficult for businesses to operate. Heck I've read that the EPA even has its own army. Geez! LOL

Anyways, that's the update guys. Pulling the camshaft out this weekend now that I finally got the tool needed to remove the Harmonic Balancer...none of the parts stores around here had one.

Joe

Re: Ram Hemi hydraulic lifter failure...oil related? [Re: JosephA] #5099811 05/08/19 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by JosephA
Greetings all!

My apologies for not having posted on here these past few days. I've been extremely busy with personal home life chores, as well as conducting tons of research on the route to take with this troubled 2012 Dodge Ram.

I was about to purchase the MDS delete kit from MMX. But something told me not to do it. I examined the lifters supplied with MMX (I think it stands for Mopar Muscle Extreme) and I realized those are the same lifters used on the Hellcat. Yet we've seen a few Hellcats with (or without) the MDS dropping lifters. So I decided not to buy the kit at a wopping cost of about $1,200 bucks, plus an additional $245 for the oil pump and another $122 for the timing chain; all together about $1,500 dollars. I'm glad I was patient in my decision and so I've decided not to buy the MDS delete kit from MMX.

I spoke to Johnson company (gentlemen's name is Joe) who designs lifters, and his company offers 2 types; oil and non-oiled, and both (to-date) have had a zero fail rate. He does not sell them to personal buyers; only to companies. So he put me in contact with a experienced engineer and performance engine builder named Rockford in Michigan (goes by the name Billy). LOL Anyways, this Billy guy knows his crap and was straight forward with me about the problems involved with the 5.7 Hemi's. Some of you might not agree with the information he provided me, but he seems quite trustworthy.

So basically here is what I'll be buying.

1. New design lifters (non-oiled) with partially closed in rollers; oil supplied to the rollers from "splash". He also has the oiled based lifters (with its own internal pathway), but he mentioned that using factory oil will cause a reduction in oil volume (not pressure) unless 5W-30 is used. By the way, I will be using 5W-30 during the winter, and 10W-30 during the summer. I'll explain later.
2. Gentlemen named Rockford will be having a camshaft cut for me to match the lifters I'm buying from Johnson (company).
3. Programmer (MDS Delete) from MMX to also include the gaskets, MDS solenoid plugs, and a new lifter keeper to fit the new lifters (also supplied by MMX)

Thus far, those who have performed the following beef-up of the Hemi saw an increase of about 20% to 30% percent in torque and horsepower, and so-far there have been no lifter failures with some engines higher than 120,000 miles after this repair. Oil recommended is no less than 5W-30, although some have reported using 10W-40...not sure why.

Now about the oil. It appears Chrysler chose to use the lighter weight engine oil in order to allow the MDS system to be more responsive. When the MDS lifters must reactivate (lock), it was explained to me that a thinner viscosity oil (-20) or 5W-20 was needed for quicker response of the lifters. Whether or not this is true I cannot say. But it makes sense to me. You all of course have a right to disagree.

Once I am done with the repairs, I will keep everyone updated. I hope that this will solve the problems.

I'm convinced the pressure was placed on both GM and Chrysler to improve fuel efficiency standards. And with the high demand for V8 engine power (naturally aspirated of course), the displacement on demand (DOD) and the Multi-Displacement System (MDS) were instituted in order to help increase fuel efficiency in order to satisfy EPA fuel efficiency requirements. First of all, who the [censored] put those guys in charge? Since when are companies (or us for that matter) subjected to them? And since when are people (to include companies) responsible for abiding by the mandates of an organization that was never created nor established by "We The People"?

Americans have forgotten that Citizens of the United States are the true sovereign's and not government or any of its agencies. Government was designed to work for the people, and by the people; their job is to serve us; not mandate policies for their own personal and sordid gain. Unfortunately, it appears agencies like the EPA can somehow make it difficult for businesses to operate. Heck I've read that the EPA even has its own army. Geez! LOL

Anyways, that's the update guys. Pulling the camshaft out this weekend now that I finally got the tool needed to remove the Harmonic Balancer...none of the parts stores around here had one.

Joe


Thanks for the update! Nothing controversial there IMHO. BTW, the SRT (with MDS) spec's 0w-40 and it is more "rumbly" than the RAM, but I attribute that primarily to how close I'm situated to the motor, and how it is(n't) isolated as well as on the truck. The SRT kicking in and out of MDS is noticeable, on the truck you can't tell unless the window is down and you are listening to the engine note.

The xW-20 spec certainly has some basis in CAFE, if it didn't the 6.4L wouldn't spec 0w-40, nor would the truck 6.4L, which barely has any more power than the 5.7.

I'm glad you've chosen to fix the problem, and it sounds like you've gone with a reputable company. Your point about the HellCat lifters is well-taken and in-line with some of the stuff I posted earlier with those lifters not being much different than the regular non-MDS ones. I don't think that's surprising with the 6.1L also sharing the issue.

Did you do any inspection on the oil delivery paths as we discussed?


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
Re: Ram Hemi hydraulic lifter failure...oil related? [Re: BullyT] #5099858 05/08/19 06:37 PM
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Great detail, dialogue.
Worthwhile read.

Cheers1


2019 Lexus UX 250h F Sport
PP 0W16

Re: Ram Hemi hydraulic lifter failure...oil related? [Re: JosephA] #5100036 05/08/19 09:09 PM
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Shannow Online Content
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Originally Posted by JosephA
Greetings all!

My apologies for not having posted on here these past few days.


Great update, and worth the wait...thanks.


If it's the truth....it can handle the pressure !!!
Re: Ram Hemi hydraulic lifter failure...oil related? [Re: OVERKILL] #5100273 05/09/19 06:28 AM
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JosephA Offline
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Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by JosephA
Greetings all!

My apologies for not having posted on here these past few days. I've been extremely busy with personal home life chores, as well as conducting tons of research on the route to take with this troubled 2012 Dodge Ram.

I was about to purchase the MDS delete kit from MMX. But something told me not to do it. I examined the lifters supplied with MMX (I think it stands for Mopar Muscle Extreme) and I realized those are the same lifters used on the Hellcat. Yet we've seen a few Hellcats with (or without) the MDS dropping lifters. So I decided not to buy the kit at a wopping cost of about $1,200 bucks, plus an additional $245 for the oil pump and another $122 for the timing chain; all together about $1,500 dollars. I'm glad I was patient in my decision and so I've decided not to buy the MDS delete kit from MMX.

I spoke to Johnson company (gentlemen's name is Joe) who designs lifters, and his company offers 2 types; oil and non-oiled, and both (to-date) have had a zero fail rate. He does not sell them to personal buyers; only to companies. So he put me in contact with a experienced engineer and performance engine builder named Rockford in Michigan (goes by the name Billy). LOL Anyways, this Billy guy knows his crap and was straight forward with me about the problems involved with the 5.7 Hemi's. Some of you might not agree with the information he provided me, but he seems quite trustworthy.

So basically here is what I'll be buying.

1. New design lifters (non-oiled) with partially closed in rollers; oil supplied to the rollers from "splash". He also has the oiled based lifters (with its own internal pathway), but he mentioned that using factory oil will cause a reduction in oil volume (not pressure) unless 5W-30 is used. By the way, I will be using 5W-30 during the winter, and 10W-30 during the summer. I'll explain later.
2. Gentlemen named Rockford will be having a camshaft cut for me to match the lifters I'm buying from Johnson (company).
3. Programmer (MDS Delete) from MMX to also include the gaskets, MDS solenoid plugs, and a new lifter keeper to fit the new lifters (also supplied by MMX)

Thus far, those who have performed the following beef-up of the Hemi saw an increase of about 20% to 30% percent in torque and horsepower, and so-far there have been no lifter failures with some engines higher than 120,000 miles after this repair. Oil recommended is no less than 5W-30, although some have reported using 10W-40...not sure why.

Now about the oil. It appears Chrysler chose to use the lighter weight engine oil in order to allow the MDS system to be more responsive. When the MDS lifters must reactivate (lock), it was explained to me that a thinner viscosity oil (-20) or 5W-20 was needed for quicker response of the lifters. Whether or not this is true I cannot say. But it makes sense to me. You all of course have a right to disagree.

Once I am done with the repairs, I will keep everyone updated. I hope that this will solve the problems.

I'm convinced the pressure was placed on both GM and Chrysler to improve fuel efficiency standards. And with the high demand for V8 engine power (naturally aspirated of course), the displacement on demand (DOD) and the Multi-Displacement System (MDS) were instituted in order to help increase fuel efficiency in order to satisfy EPA fuel efficiency requirements. First of all, who the [censored] put those guys in charge? Since when are companies (or us for that matter) subjected to them? And since when are people (to include companies) responsible for abiding by the mandates of an organization that was never created nor established by "We The People"?

Americans have forgotten that Citizens of the United States are the true sovereign's and not government or any of its agencies. Government was designed to work for the people, and by the people; their job is to serve us; not mandate policies for their own personal and sordid gain. Unfortunately, it appears agencies like the EPA can somehow make it difficult for businesses to operate. Heck I've read that the EPA even has its own army. Geez! LOL

Anyways, that's the update guys. Pulling the camshaft out this weekend now that I finally got the tool needed to remove the Harmonic Balancer...none of the parts stores around here had one.

Joe


Thanks for the update! Nothing controversial there IMHO. BTW, the SRT (with MDS) spec's 0w-40 and it is more "rumbly" than the RAM, but I attribute that primarily to how close I'm situated to the motor, and how it is(n't) isolated as well as on the truck. The SRT kicking in and out of MDS is noticeable, on the truck you can't tell unless the window is down and you are listening to the engine note.

The xW-20 spec certainly has some basis in CAFE, if it didn't the 6.4L wouldn't spec 0w-40, nor would the truck 6.4L, which barely has any more power than the 5.7.

I'm glad you've chosen to fix the problem, and it sounds like you've gone with a reputable company. Your point about the HellCat lifters is well-taken and in-line with some of the stuff I posted earlier with those lifters not being much different than the regular non-MDS ones. I don't think that's surprising with the 6.1L also sharing the issue.

Did you do any inspection on the oil delivery paths as we discussed?

[b][/b]

Not yet. I will do that after removing the camshaft. I was going to do it last night but I was pooped, and my new maintenance light burned out after only an hour or two of use. So much for high quality tools from Harbor Freight. LOL

I may end up removing the engine due to concerns from the debris in the engine (roller bearing chunk and all of the needle bearings from #8 intake lifter). Joe (from John Company) recommended I pull the engine and remove the oil plan to do a complete FOD (Foreign Object Damage) check and removal of any debris. I might as well pull the engine since the only thing left to remove is the starter and bell-housing bolts.

I will post pictures of the camshaft once it is out. I expect to see nearly total lobe destruction on lobe for the #8 intake lifter, and scoring/chaffing on cylinders 2,4 and 6 intake lifter lobes. I think all of the bank 1 (cylinders 1,3,5,7) camshaft lobes will be just fine since it's oiling was quite sufficient; not sure why Bank 2 suffered oil volume; might be a clog in the galley.

Joe

Re: Ram Hemi hydraulic lifter failure...oil related? [Re: BullyT] #5100296 05/09/19 07:12 AM
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Great to hear and I agree with Joe, you need to perform a full clean-out. Looking forward to the pics thumbsup


2019 RAM 1500 Sport - Mobil 1 EP 0w-20, FRAM Ultra
2016 Grand Cherokee SRT - Ravenol SSL 0w-40, FRAM Ultra
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