JASO MA class oils

[DMS]

I've heard that using a non JASO MA class oil will cause problems in my 2004 Kawasaki (or any bike that uses the same volume of oil for lubricating the engine and the transmission).
Is this a real problem or are we talking about minor clutch and gear slipping and/or wear, over many miles, under extreme conditions, etc.?
Thanks.

 

[ad244]

JASO MA is specifically a classification for motorcycles that use shared sump. You want to use oils that have this certification.

Which oil are you looking at?

 

[Mantooth]

All my shared sump machines have been ATVs and a UTV. My understanding from talking to other guys with powersport machines is the additives in other oils will cause slipping issues and possibly lead to premature wear. I've used RT6 in my Honda TRX90, 420, and Pioneer 1K5 SxS in addition to Honda GN4. No issues so far with the RT6. RT6 isn't JASO-MA certified but it does have language on the bottle saying it meets, exceeds, or something to that effect.

 

[SonofJoe]

The memory's beginning to fade now but as I recall, most of the Euro 10W30 PCMOs I formulated (even the lowly ones) passed the JASO friction test to MA.

 

[SZR48207]

DMS - How far down the rabbit hole would you like to go? We can get into some SERIOUS conversations about JASO and friction modifiers here. LOL

 

[Rand]

you want JASO MA or MA2 but not MA1

 

[EdwardC]

I don't know of long term issues, but I've heard of more immediate ride ability symptoms, like slipping clutches and poor shifting. In those cases, the owner swapped it out for a different oil and everything was better. I think most owners wouldn't keep riding with those issues, so there may not be much of an opportunity for long term issues. Partly for that reason, I try to stick to JASO MA or MA2 oils.

 

[Kawiguy454]

Take this for what it is worth. In all the bikes I've ever owned and on the bike forums. Only the oils that show the "energy conserving" circle are the ones to steer clear of for wet clutch. large consensus of bikers use shell Rotella with zero clutch issues. My personal experience is that I have used shell or M1 10-40 15-50 in literally every bike I have ever owned with zero clutch issues. Currently a Kawasaki C14 and a ~210hp supercharged H2 with ZERO clutch issues. I get M1 15-50 at wally world for ~$24/gal

 

[ammolab]

Originally Posted by Mantooth
All my shared sump machines have been ATVs and a UTV. My understanding from talking to other guys with powersport machines is the additives in other oils will cause slipping issues and possibly lead to premature wear. I've used RT6 in my Honda TRX90, 420, and Pioneer 1K5 SxS in addition to Honda GN4. No issues so far with the RT6. RT6 isn't JASO-MA certified but it does have language on the bottle saying it meets, exceeds, or something to that effect.



Current Rotella 5W-40 T6 shows JASO-MA "approval". From Shell site, also on the bottle.

"API: CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4 ACEA E9, JASO DH-2, Cummins CES 20086; Volvo VDS-4.5; Detroit Fluid Specification DDC (DFS) 93K222, Caterpillar ECF-2/ECF-3, MAN M3575, JASO MA/ MA2, Allison TES 439, MB-Approval 228.31
Excellent Low Termperature Flow
In an engine motored at -34 °C, oil flow between the sump and gallery was considerably faster with Shell ROTELLA®

 

[blupupher]

Originally Posted by Rand
you want JASO MA or MA2 but not MA1

Never heard of MA1?

Originally Posted by Kawiguy454
Take this for what it is worth. In all the bikes I've ever owned and on the bike forums. Only the oils that show the "energy conserving" circle are the ones to steer clear of for wet clutch. large consensus of bikers use shell Rotella with zero clutch issues.
...

This. The energy conserving marking on the API donut is a bad thing for shared sump bikes.

Heavy duty engine oils (HDEO) "diesel oils" are a common alternative that many use for shared sump bikes with no real issues. Occasionally a specific bike has an issue, but not a common problem.
Rotella T6 5w-40 is one that many used for a long time, but with the most recent reformulation of it, many started reporting issues with it.

Originally Posted by ammolab

Current Rotella 5W-40 T6 shows JASO-MA "approval". From Shell site, also on the bottle.

"API: CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4 ACEA E9, JASO DH-2, Cummins CES 20086; Volvo VDS-4.5; Detroit Fluid Specification DDC (DFS) 93K222, Caterpillar ECF-2/ECF-3, MAN M3575, JASO MA/ MA2, Allison TES 439, MB-Approval 228.31
...

It is not JASO-MA/MA2 approved, it only states "Meets performance requirements of ... JASO MA/MA2"

Rotella is not on the official JASO-MA list.

 

[DMS]

I'd prefer to use an SAE 40 and avoid the multiviscosity. But I can't find a straight 40 weight that has the IS SO classification.

 

[DMS]

Maxima premium 4, 10-40. I'll get it from Amazon.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by Rand
you want JASO MA or MA2 but not MA1


Originally there was only JASO MA ... then JASO split MA it into MA1 and MA2 (ie, two separate friction level definitions).

So if a bottle of oil says "JASO MA" it could mean either MA1 or MA2 ... but is probably what MA1 is.

https://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/JASO_MA_JASO_MB.php

http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/jaso_e-2-1.htm

 

[Bonz]

How dead is this horse? Gawsh, search function is your friend!

 

[jeff78]

Originally Posted by DMS
I'd prefer to use an SAE 40 and avoid the multiviscosity. But I can't find a straight 40 weight that has the IS SO classification.


I'd be surprised if you could find a JASO MA monograde. Keep in mind that just because an oil doesn't say it meets JASO MA, doesn't necessarily mean it has failed the wet clutch friction test, it simply may not have been tested at all. Which is not uncommon for a car oil because how many cars have wet clutches?

FWIW I've been running Valvoline VR1 SAE 40 for the past ~20K miles with no clutch issues. Shifting is fantastic and stays that way, the oil does not shear at all, and there is plenty of TBN for any reasonable OCI. I do feel compelled to say that Valvoline does not recommend VR1 for use in wet clutches.

 

[bulwnkl]

Originally Posted by ZeeOSix

Originally there was only JASO MA ... then JASO split MA it into MA1 and MA2 (ie, two separate friction level definitions).

So if a bottle of oil says "JASO MA" it could mean either MA1 or MA2



Agreed, but JASO MA can also mean that the fluid meets MA1 for one or two of the friction tests, and MA2 for the other(s), as your chart shows.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by bulwnkl
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally there was only JASO MA ... then JASO split MA it into MA1 and MA2 (ie, two separate friction level definitions).

So if a bottle of oil says "JASO MA" it could mean either MA1 or MA2.

Agreed, but JASO MA can also mean that the fluid meets MA1 for one or two of the friction tests, and MA2 for the other(s), as your chart shows.


Yes, that's another possibility. Some where I read the MA2 designation was intended for bikes with a catalytic converter. Different formulation for the cat that changed the friction level of the oil.

 

[bulwnkl]

Interesting. I hadn't seen that asserted anywhere that I can recall (I wouldn't really have been looking, though). I suppose the Red Line isn't the smartest choice in the world for my catalyst. (-: OTOH, I can detect no consumption at all, even after 8 - 10k miles, so I guess we'll see what happens over time. I still don't smell the nastiness of a poorly- or un-controlled exhaust when I very occasionally start the bike up in the garage, even after 50k miles, so I'm hopeful she'll hold for a good long while.

 

[Jarlaxle]

I recall you should also be fine with anything that is Allison C4 or TES439-approved...those are wet-clutch specs.

 

[Buzz54]

have a question not very related. I have a 2015 bmw r1200 rt. I just changed the oil with mobil1 synthetic.. I just noticed after the fact, that it may be really old. It says API SH, how can I determine looking at the quart container, when this oil was produced. Im freaked I have ran my bike over 150 miles with this in it. its mobil1 4t, thanks !!