base oil used in various Mobil 1 0 and 5W20 weights

[pbm]

Back in early March this list was posted by another forum member (Gokhan).

M1 AFE 0W-16: PAO-based

M1 AFE 0W-20: 1/2 PAO-based and some GTL
M1 EP 0W-20: PAO-based
M1 EP HM 0W-20: only a dash of PAO (less than 10%)
M1 HM 0W-20: 1/4 PAO- and 1/4 GTL-based
M1 TP 0W-20: 2/3 PAO and 1/3 Group III
M1 AP 0W-20: PAO-based

M1 5W-20: 2/3 GTL
M1 EP 5W-20: 1/3 PAO, a dash of GTL
M1 EP HM 5W-20: only a dash of PAO (less than 10%)
M1 HM 5W-20: 1/4 GTL, a dash of PAO
M1 TP 5W-20: 1/4 PAO
M1 AP 5W-20: 1/4 PAO


I find this very interesting and I thanked Gokhan for his efforts …

I'm amazed that some are majority PAO.... while some have only "a dash".....some are majority GTL...while some have "only a dash"....while I know that there are some great synthetics that are fully Gr.3 or fully GTL etc...does it make any sense to use this list when choosing a Mobil 1 version or are they all similarly good due to additives etc...? Just wanting to hear the logic.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted by pbm
Back in early March this list was posted by another forum member (Gokhan).

M1 AFE 0W-16: PAO-based

M1 AFE 0W-20: 1/2 PAO-based and some GTL
M1 EP 0W-20: PAO-based
M1 EP HM 0W-20: only a dash of PAO (less than 10%)
M1 HM 0W-20: 1/4 PAO- and 1/4 GTL-based
M1 TP 0W-20: 2/3 PAO and 1/3 Group III
M1 AP 0W-20: PAO-based

M1 5W-20: 2/3 GTL
M1 EP 5W-20: 1/3 PAO, a dash of GTL
M1 EP HM 5W-20: only a dash of PAO (less than 10%)
M1 HM 5W-20: 1/4 GTL, a dash of PAO
M1 TP 5W-20: 1/4 PAO
M1 AP 5W-20: 1/4 PAO


I find this very interesting and I thanked Gokhan for his efforts …

I'm amazed that some are majority PAO.... while some have only "a dash".....some are majority GTL...while some have "only a dash"....while I know that there are some great synthetics that are fully Gr.3 or fully GTL etc...does it make any sense to use this list when choosing a Mobil 1 version or are they all similarly good due to additives etc...? Just wanting to hear the logic.


I'll fully admit to intentionally seeking out a lube based on PAO. If it can be procured for the same price as a lube that isn't, since PAO is an expensive ingredient, I feel I am getting a better "deal". Also, PAO has superior cold flow properties and thus should require less VII (all things being equal) in a fully formulated lube.

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by pbm
Back in early March this list was posted by another forum member (Gokhan).

M1 AFE 0W-16: PAO-based

M1 AFE 0W-20: 1/2 PAO-based and some GTL
M1 EP 0W-20: PAO-based
M1 EP HM 0W-20: only a dash of PAO (less than 10%)
M1 HM 0W-20: 1/4 PAO- and 1/4 GTL-based
M1 TP 0W-20: 2/3 PAO and 1/3 Group III
M1 AP 0W-20: PAO-based

M1 5W-20: 2/3 GTL
M1 EP 5W-20: 1/3 PAO, a dash of GTL
M1 EP HM 5W-20: only a dash of PAO (less than 10%)
M1 HM 5W-20: 1/4 GTL, a dash of PAO
M1 TP 5W-20: 1/4 PAO
M1 AP 5W-20: 1/4 PAO


I find this very interesting and I thanked Gokhan for his efforts …

I'm amazed that some are majority PAO.... while some have only "a dash".....some are majority GTL...while some have "only a dash"....while I know that there are some great synthetics that are fully Gr.3 or fully GTL etc...does it make any sense to use this list when choosing a Mobil 1 version or are they all similarly good due to additives etc...? Just wanting to hear the logic.


I'll fully admit to intentionally seeking out a lube based on PAO. If it can be procured for the same price as a lube that isn't, since PAO is an expensive ingredient, I feel I am getting a better "deal". Also, PAO has superior cold flow properties and thus should require less VII (all things being equal) in a fully formulated lube.




That's my thinking as well....even though I know there are great synthetics that have no PAO....

 

[oil_film_movies]

PAO is the expensive base, so they try NOT to use it. Its used in the more pricier M1 versions, and when you need to use thin stuff for the "0w" rating especially. You can see that pattern.
GTL does come very close to the deposit performance and longevity of PAO, from all accounts I've ever read.

 

[buster]

Ya I agree with OVERKILL and O-F-M. PAO is used when required for certain performance specs.

 

[pbm]

What would the other 1/2 be in this version?
M1 HM 0W-20: 1/4 PAO- and 1/4 GTL-based.

It seems that Mobil 1 EP 0w20 would possibly be better than 5w20 AP....if PAO percentage is the key....are the additives in AP what makes it more 'premium' than EP?....or is marketing the real key?

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Originally Posted by pbm
What would the other 1/2 be in this version?
M1 HM 0W-20: 1/4 PAO- and 1/4 GTL-based.

It seems that Mobil 1 EP 0w20 would possibly be better than 5w20 AP....if PAO percentage is the key....are the additives in AP what makes it more 'premium' than EP?....or is marketing the real key?


Well AP sold for nearly $50 a Jug and now its what $34 and change. Its very apparent it way a total hype play for more money of it wouldn't even be on the self for $34 and change now. My opinion is its still over priced. I won't buy this snake oil!

 

[buster]

Originally Posted by pbm
What would the other 1/2 be in this version?
M1 HM 0W-20: 1/4 PAO- and 1/4 GTL-based.

It seems that Mobil 1 EP 0w20 would possibly be better than 5w20 AP....if PAO percentage is the key....are the additives in AP what makes it more 'premium' than EP?....or is marketing the real key?


It's not just the base oil at play.....the additive system, type of AO's. AP uses some propriety anti-aging (as XOM called it) formulation.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted by pbm
What would the other 1/2 be in this version? M1 HM 0W-20: 1/4 PAO- and 1/4 GTL-based.
Its got to be Group3, since it wouldn't be Group5. (GTL is Group3+)

Originally Posted by pbm
It seems that Mobil 1 EP 0w20 would possibly be better than 5w20 AP....if PAO percentage is the key....are the additives in AP what makes it more 'premium' than EP?....or is marketing the real key?
Mobil claims to have better anti-oxidants in the M1 AP. Thats what you're paying for. Maybe they just increased the treat rate on AP, not sure. Its similar to what Shell claims for Rotella Gas Truck, more or better anti-ox. Anti-ox does increase longevity. Its a matter of "how much" better of course.

Say Mobil is scamming us, maybe just a little, on the diff between EP and AP. They could increase anti-ox treat rate of the same identical anti-ox chemicals from 0.5% in EP to 0.6% in AP and then claim its a different product. Technically, it would be a different oil.
I would like to think they did the ethical thing and there really is 33% better longevity in AP vs. EP, and AP uses newer tech chemical anti-ox from more recent patents.

 

[pbm]

Quote from O-F-M:
"I would like to think they did the ethical thing and there really is 33% better longevity in AP vs. EP, and AP uses newer tech chemical anti-ox from more recent patents."

I also would like to think that...

I remember when Mobil 1 use to say …."Nothing outperforms Mobil 1"...….now it would be...."Nothing outperforms Mobil 1 except maybe other Mobil 1"...

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Originally Posted by pbm
Quote from O-F-M:
"I would like to think they did the ethical thing and there really is 33% better longevity in AP vs. EP, and AP uses newer tech chemical anti-ox from more recent patents."

I also would like to think that...

I remember when Mobil 1 use to say …."Nothing outperforms Mobil 1"...….now it would be...."Nothing outperforms Mobil 1 except maybe other Mobil 1"...


That would be nice but frankly I've only seen one UOA on AP that was half impressive.

 

[njohnson]

Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by pbm
What would the other 1/2 be in this version? M1 HM 0W-20: 1/4 PAO- and 1/4 GTL-based.
Its got to be Group3, since it wouldn't be Group5. (GTL is Group3+)

Originally Posted by pbm
It seems that Mobil 1 EP 0w20 would possibly be better than 5w20 AP....if PAO percentage is the key....are the additives in AP what makes it more 'premium' than EP?....or is marketing the real key?
Mobil claims to have better anti-oxidants in the M1 AP. Thats what you're paying for. Maybe they just increased the treat rate on AP, not sure. Its similar to what Shell claims for Rotella Gas Truck, more or better anti-ox. Anti-ox does increase longevity. Its a matter of "how much" better of course.

Say Mobil is scamming us, maybe just a little, on the diff between EP and AP. They could increase anti-ox treat rate of the same identical anti-ox chemicals from 0.5% in EP to 0.6% in AP and then claim its a different product. Technically, it would be a different oil.
I would like to think they did the ethical thing and there really is 33% better longevity in AP vs. EP, and AP uses newer tech chemical anti-ox from more recent patents.



I do think Annual Protection is different from other Mobil 1 oils and has better antioxidants. Why do I think so? I saw the difference in our Dad's truck. He has a 2006 Tundra, and I have used different Mobil 1 oils in it. EP, HM, 0W-40 European formula, etc.. Change the oil anywhere from 7,000 to 8,000 miles. Tried Annual Protection in it, ran it for 8,000+ miles. When I dumped it, the color was the lightest of all the Mobil 1 oils ever run in the truck. In fact, it looked just a little darker than new oil. I was surprised. I could see the metal of the dipstick through the oil. The other Mobil 1 oils were dark brown and I couldn't see the dipstick through the oil.

 

[KneeGrinder]

Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Originally Posted by pbm
What would the other 1/2 be in this version?
M1 HM 0W-20: 1/4 PAO- and 1/4 GTL-based.

It seems that Mobil 1 EP 0w20 would possibly be better than 5w20 AP....if PAO percentage is the key....are the additives in AP what makes it more 'premium' than EP?....or is marketing the real key?


Well AP sold for nearly $50 a Jug and now its what $34 and change. Its very apparent it way a total hype play for more money of it wouldn't even be on the self for $34 and change now. My opinion is its still over priced. I won't buy this snake oil!


Oh, come on! 5W20AP was priced perfectly at AZ 2018 clearance at $10.00 per 5qts! I would not pay $34.99 for it either...

 

[tony1679]

Originally Posted by KneeGrinder
Originally Posted by JohnnyJohnson
Well AP sold for nearly $50 a Jug and now its what $34 and change. Its very apparent it way a total hype play for more money of it wouldn't even be on the self for $34 and change now. My opinion is its still over priced. I won't buy this snake oil!


Oh, come on! 5W20AP was priced perfectly at AZ 2018 clearance at $10.00 per 5qts! I would not pay $34.99 for it either...

 

[KneeGrinder]

Think I got you covered on AP, I got 4- 5qt jugs, & 20 qt. bottles, but I got even more 10W30 EP also! I won't show pic's cause I have serious oil hoard issue's!

 

[fortesquieu]

Originally Posted by njohnson
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by pbm
What would the other 1/2 be in this version? M1 HM 0W-20: 1/4 PAO- and 1/4 GTL-based.
Its got to be Group3, since it wouldn't be Group5. (GTL is Group3+)

Originally Posted by pbm
It seems that Mobil 1 EP 0w20 would possibly be better than 5w20 AP....if PAO percentage is the key....are the additives in AP what makes it more 'premium' than EP?....or is marketing the real key?
Mobil claims to have better anti-oxidants in the M1 AP. Thats what you're paying for. Maybe they just increased the treat rate on AP, not sure. Its similar to what Shell claims for Rotella Gas Truck, more or better anti-ox. Anti-ox does increase longevity. Its a matter of "how much" better of course.

Say Mobil is scamming us, maybe just a little, on the diff between EP and AP. They could increase anti-ox treat rate of the same identical anti-ox chemicals from 0.5% in EP to 0.6% in AP and then claim its a different product. Technically, it would be a different oil.
I would like to think they did the ethical thing and there really is 33% better longevity in AP vs. EP, and AP uses newer tech chemical anti-ox from more recent patents.



I do think Annual Protection is different from other Mobil 1 oils and has better antioxidants. Why do I think so? I saw the difference in our Dad's truck. He has a 2006 Tundra, and I have used different Mobil 1 oils in it. EP, HM, 0W-40 European formula, etc.. Change the oil anywhere from 7,000 to 8,000 miles. Tried Annual Protection in it, ran it for 8,000+ miles. When I dumped it, the color was the lightest of all the Mobil 1 oils ever run in the truck. In fact, it looked just a little darker than new oil. I was surprised. I could see the metal of the dipstick through the oil. The other Mobil 1 oils were dark brown and I couldn't see the dipstick through the oil.



But I thought you can't judge a oil's life based on color?

Dark color also means it's cleaning the engine, doesn't it?

 

[tony1679]

Originally Posted by KneeGrinder
Think I got you covered on AP, I got 4- 5qt jugs, & 20 qt. bottles, but I got even more 10W30 EP also! I won't show pic's cause I have serious oil hoard issue's!

I was late to the party on AP, and had local BITOG competition who beat me to the punch. But idk, I kinda doubt you have me covered as a total. This was just my most recent haul that I was paid to take, plus paid a whole lot more for in pending rebates. Not to mention my existing stash...

 

[TiredTrucker]

I long since left the arguments of Group III vs Group IV base oils. Their is such a fine line between them that the average person's vehicle would never know the difference. And the difference is not all that great.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/533/base-oil-trends

It would seem anymore that the main focus when buying a synthetic should be on add pack instead of base oil. Even the best PAO, if it has a poor add pack, is going to be worse than a good Group III with a strong add pack.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
I long since left the arguments of Group III vs Group IV base oils. Their is such a fine line between them that the average person's vehicle would never know the difference. And the difference is not all that great.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/533/base-oil-trends

It would seem anymore that the main focus when buying a synthetic should be on add pack instead of base oil. Even the best PAO, if it has a poor add pack, is going to be worse than a good Group III with a strong add pack.


I agree with you.

Mobil 1 is no longer an oil, it's a brand of oils. What XOM does makes sense from an economic standpoint and formulating standpoint. If you're a purest, I understand because I'm that way too with a lot of things. With oil I was, but not as much anymore. Most oils use a base oil blend of different base oils. Some are majority one type or more. Most are blends of III+/PAO/V. I have no problems with either. Sometimes you need Hersey, sometimes you need Godiva.

My personal preference is more PAO than III+, just to keep the cold temp/high temp and volatility down. But you can apparently keep volatility down too in other ways.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by fortesquieu
Originally Posted by njohnson
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by pbm
What would the other 1/2 be in this version? M1 HM 0W-20: 1/4 PAO- and 1/4 GTL-based.
Its got to be Group3, since it wouldn't be Group5. (GTL is Group3+)

Originally Posted by pbm
It seems that Mobil 1 EP 0w20 would possibly be better than 5w20 AP....if PAO percentage is the key....are the additives in AP what makes it more 'premium' than EP?....or is marketing the real key?
Mobil claims to have better anti-oxidants in the M1 AP. Thats what you're paying for. Maybe they just increased the treat rate on AP, not sure. Its similar to what Shell claims for Rotella Gas Truck, more or better anti-ox. Anti-ox does increase longevity. Its a matter of "how much" better of course.

Say Mobil is scamming us, maybe just a little, on the diff between EP and AP. They could increase anti-ox treat rate of the same identical anti-ox chemicals from 0.5% in EP to 0.6% in AP and then claim its a different product. Technically, it would be a different oil.
I would like to think they did the ethical thing and there really is 33% better longevity in AP vs. EP, and AP uses newer tech chemical anti-ox from more recent patents.



I do think Annual Protection is different from other Mobil 1 oils and has better antioxidants. Why do I think so? I saw the difference in our Dad's truck. He has a 2006 Tundra, and I have used different Mobil 1 oils in it. EP, HM, 0W-40 European formula, etc.. Change the oil anywhere from 7,000 to 8,000 miles. Tried Annual Protection in it, ran it for 8,000+ miles. When I dumped it, the color was the lightest of all the Mobil 1 oils ever run in the truck. In fact, it looked just a little darker than new oil. I was surprised. I could see the metal of the dipstick through the oil. The other Mobil 1 oils were dark brown and I couldn't see the dipstick through the oil.



But I thought you can't judge a oil's life based on color?

Dark color also means it's cleaning the engine, doesn't it?


Oil turns black from oxidation. This can happen from normal heat cycling or from contaminants acting as catalysts for oxidation. Anti-oxidants resist oxidation. The DI package has less impact besides the neutralization and mopping up of acidic contaminants. Break-in oil will turn dark in just a few hundred miles in a fresh, clean engine. It's formulated for maximum wear protection during the crucial break-in period with far less concern for oxidation inhibition.

Also note that there are some ashless dispersants that turn dark when exposed to UV light (from combustion events) making the oil appear black even though its not.