Honda vs Other small engines.

[bubbatime]

From a small engine mechanic prospective, I would never under any circumstances buy a Robin/Subaru engine.

Built great and heavy duty? Sure. High quality? yup.

Time for a repair. ANY repair? $100 to start. Parts are so astronomically high for that brand, its unbelievable. And then, even worse, they have a terrible, and I mean terrible, parts distribution network in North America.

I cannot count how many times I have had to order parts and found that not a single part was inventoried anywhere in America. Had to order directly from Japan, pay $30 for shipping, and wait 35 days for it to arrive. So a simple carb rebuild kit that should cost $10 cost $75 from Japan and you have to wait more than a month for it to arrive. Asinine.

I will scream from the roof tops to anyone listening, DO NOT BUY A ROBIN/SUBARU powered small engine!! When it breaks, you are NOT going to like what it takes to get it working again. Cost, time, and agravation.

Honda, Kohler, and Briggs has a phenomenal parts distribution network. Stick with them if possible.

 

[nobb]

Originally Posted by bubbatime

Never under any circumstances buy a pressure washer with a Honda GC160 or GC190 engine. This is the worst pressure washer engine in existence. Literally any engine, any engine, would be better. These have plastic camshaft pulleys that snap like clock work at about 50 hours, when used on high demand engines, like pressure washers. I had about 40-50 of these "pressure washer" engines in my junk pile. Too expensive to fix, not worth the effort.

Always, always, always, buy a horizontally mounted pump and not a vertically mounted pump. Just about every vertical mount pump is rated for 50 hours. The horizontal pumps are most often rated for 300 hours, and are easier to service and change the oil on.


That's a very interesting perspective, thank you.

Are you saying on a low end gas pressure washer (typically with a GX160 and a cheap horizontal pump) that the pump would outlast the engine? For an average home user like me the pressure washer only sees maybe 5-10 hours of operation per year.

How hard is it to fix a broken plastic camshaft? If it's a quick rebuild every 5-10 years maybe it's still worth it.

For the pump, what's the most common mode of failure, provided it's being serviced properly? eg. changing the oil, priming the pump with antifreeze in between use.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by Danno
Any thoughts on LCT engines?


Liquid Combustion Technologies?

Yes, my "old" Power washer was an LCT engine on a Coleman power washer.

The engine is EXCELLENT - as good as any Honda.
The pump portion was complete garbage.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by bubbatime
Robin/Subaru engine.
Built great and heavy duty? Sure. High quality? yup.

So a simple carb rebuild kit that should cost $10 cost $75 from Japan and you have to wait more than a month for it to arrive. When it breaks, you are NOT going to like what it takes to get it working again.


Such a silly answer....

Just run ethanol-free gas in your Subaru-Robin and that engine will never, ever, ever need any repairs.

Oh yeah, change the oil once in a while, too.

 

[Astro_Guy]

Originally Posted by Danno
Any thoughts on LCT engines?
I have a 254cc LCT engine on an Ariens Deluxe snowblower. It has three seasons but only 8-10 hours of run time. It starts easily and runs smoothly, but that's not saying much after only 8-10 hours.

As for Hondas, I have GCV160 engines on a 10 year old Honda Harmony push mower and a 9 year old Troy-Bilt pressure washer. I estimate 350 hours on the mower and 50 on the pressure washer. Both start easily, although the mower is a little stubborn when coming out of winter hibernation.

My generator has a Chonda clone of the GX200 (196cc) with an estimated 50 hours that is also very easy to start. All of the above were upgraded to NGK Iridium spark plugs last year, which doesn't hurt.

 

[Win]

Originally Posted by bubbatime
...

Always, always, always, when buying a pressure washer, buy a Honda GX200 (NOT Honda GC190) engine (or Chinese clone of GX200) with a triplex pump. Pump brand doesnt matter. And I will tell you why.

Never under any circumstances buy a pressure washer with a Honda GC160 or GC190 engine. This is the worst pressure washer engine in existence. Literally any engine, any engine, would be better. These have plastic camshaft pulleys that snap like clock work at about 50 hours, when used on high demand engines, like pressure washers. I had about 40-50 of these "pressure washer" engines in my junk pile. Too expensive to fix, not worth the effort. ...


Interesting. I used mine two or three times, determined the engine was a complete POS as employed on this machine, and hauled it to my warehouse of junk where it has sat ever since.

I've had excellent service with singles and V Twins from Briggs and Kohler. The only engine failure I've ever experienced was a broken crankshaft, on a one jug 9 or 10 HP Tecumseh ( RIP - not the engines fault ... ), I use all of my equipment in commercial service to maintain my properties and they rarely, if ever, get much in the way of maintenance until something breaks.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by Linctex
Kohler Command = Excellent
Kohler Courage = Chinese garbage

Briggs & Stratton Vanguard = Japanese quality
other Briggs & Generac = Assembled in USA with Chinese parts

Subaru Robin = VERY Excellent, maybe even better than a Honda

Honda GX = GREAT
Honda GC = cheap, built to a "price point"


I've been working on small engines close to 15 years now and this from my experience is almost spot on. The one thing I can't agree with is Subaru, but that is simply from my limited experience with them. I've only seen a couple, and they were hard to find parts for and had some odd failures.

 

[meep]

nothing but good experiences with honda engines (1 gx, 2 gc, and some little mini-4-stroke in a trimmer). I will say for hot heavy duty work, I had one GC which didn't fare well with mobil 5-30 oil, but after moving to 10-30 the continued sparklies in the oil went away.

My ZTR rider has a 1-lung 14.5 HP briggs from around 2012. I've never been a big briggs fan, but the OHV engine has been every bit as pleasant to live with as the hondas. Trouble-free, consumes zero oil all season, starts easily every time. I'd guess 200 hours on it or so, assuming 40 hours per year. Also a smoothly-balanced engine. No complaints.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted by jeepman3071


I've been working on small engines close to 15 years now and this from my experience is almost spot on. The one thing I can't agree with is Subaru, but that is simply from my limited experience with them. I've only seen a couple, and they were hard to find parts for and had some odd failures.


I'm pretty sure it's been a bit more than 15yrs since the "good" Subaru small air cooled OPE engines were even a thing. I recall them being a pricey option back in the late 1980s to mid 90s. Can't compare what's been branded Subaru for the past 10yrs or so.

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted by nobb
Are you saying on a low end gas pressure washer (typically with a GX160 and a cheap horizontal pump) that the pump would outlast the engine?


No I'm not saying that. The GX200 is super durable. If you maintain it, it will outlast several pumps. The Honda GC engines on the other hand, are junk on pressure washers. They WILL break the plastic camshaft pulley, usually way under 100 hours of use.

Originally Posted by nobb
How hard is it to fix a broken plastic camshaft? If it's a quick rebuild every 5-10 years maybe it's still worth it.


If you are handy you could buy the parts and fix it yourself pretty easily. If you have to pay shop labor rates, then it would be cheaper and a better option to buy a $100 Honda GX200 clone engine from Harbor Freight or elsewhere. The parts for a "rebuild" would be more than the cost of buying a new engine every 5-10 years...

Originally Posted by nobb
For the pump, what's the most common mode of failure, provided it's being serviced properly? eg. changing the oil, priming the pump with antifreeze in between use.


From what I have seen, gaskets and seals leak, which causes all the lubricant to leak out or for water to mix with the oil.

 

[FastLane]

I have a Ryobi 2800 psi with a GVC160 Honda. The Honda starts great but I dont think its going to last long. The oil changes color very fast. I run M1 10W30 in it. I'm probably getting close to 50 hours on it. Last fall I thought I saw some blue smoke coming from it....

I love the Chinese GX200 clone engines. I have a few. The Harbour Freight Predator 212 is a beast on my Coleman CT200U trail bike.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by JTK
Originally Posted by jeepman3071


I've been working on small engines close to 15 years now and this from my experience is almost spot on. The one thing I can't agree with is Subaru, but that is simply from my limited experience with them. I've only seen a couple, and they were hard to find parts for and had some odd failures.


I'm pretty sure it's been a bit more than 15yrs since the "good" Subaru small air cooled OPE engines were even a thing. I recall them being a pricey option back in the late 1980s to mid 90s. Can't compare what's been branded Subaru for the past 10yrs or so.


Yeah I had one that was around a 9hp I think, horizontal shaft engine on a leaf blower, and it broke the crankshaft right where the fan mounted. The customer had brought other machines he owned to me in the past and all were very well maintained. From looking at the crank it was definitely a casting flaw of some sort. The engine was just out of warranty (of course). I ended up re-powering it with a ~10hp Predator for him and it has been flawless since.

The Chinese engines are hit or miss, the Predator 212cc seems to be pretty good. Lots of guys in the karting community make big power out of them with pretty decent reliability. The snowblower engines I've been less than impressed with. Reliability is decent but parts are very cheap, screws snap easily, etc. A lot of them are also designed to run way too lean in order to meet emissions, which makes them surge constantly unless the choke is on during the winter, even from brand new.

 

[JTK]

^ Totally agree. It's not the block and interworking of the the import OPE engines. It's the plastic, soft parts, rubber bits and the fasteners.

I've had to replace the primer line, bulb and fuel shut-off valve on my ~3-4yr/old LCT engine on my Ariens Sno-Tek snowblower. It's the same engine used on the expensive Ariens snow equipment.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by JTK
^ Totally agree. It's not the block and interworking of the the import OPE engines. It's the plastic, soft parts, rubber bits and the fasteners.

I've had to replace the primer line, bulb and fuel shut-off valve on my ~3-4yr/old LCT engine on my Ariens Sno-Tek snowblower. It's the same engine used on the expensive Ariens snow equipment.



For me it's the recoils. For some reason every Chinese snowblower engine I get in has a broken recoil starter, and the bolts on those things are so freaking tight. I usually end up snapping half of them trying to get it off. I've tried 1/4" ratchet, 1/4" electric impact with small bursts, etc. I've turned to just removing the whole shroud now instead of the just the recoil for that reason whenever they come in. The string they use also seems to be basically fishing line.

 

[4WD]

Bought Sears B&S powered for decades … today I replaced my old B&S 6.75 with a new B&S 7.25 (Craftsman) … cut grass too tall for mulching but did it anyway … good power and agile self propelled mower …
Dumped the 5w30 after the heavy mowing … and filled with straight 30 …

 

[92saturnsl2]

Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
My Kohler courage has been excellent, 10 years so far, not one single issue. has around 350 hours on it.

Rod


I too, have had excellent service from my Kohler Courage XT-7 (single cylinder) on my pressure washer. It's over 10 years old now and has never given me even a hiccup of trouble. Always starts on the first pull, good smooth power.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted by 92saturnsl2
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
My Kohler courage has been excellent, 10 years so far, not one single issue. has around 350 hours on it.

Rod


I too, have had excellent service from my Kohler Courage XT-7 (single cylinder) on my pressure washer. It's over 10 years old now and has never given me even a hiccup of trouble. Always starts on the first pull, good smooth power.



Their smaller engines such as the XT-7, and other models found on push mowers are basically Chinese clones and aren't too bad. The larger engines on riding mowers are the ones that have all the issues.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted by jeepman3071


For me it's the recoils. For some reason every Chinese snowblower engine I get in has a broken recoil starter, and the bolts on those things are so freaking tight. I usually end up snapping half of them trying to get it off. I've tried 1/4" ratchet, 1/4" electric impact with small bursts, etc. I've turned to just removing the whole shroud now instead of the just the recoil for that reason whenever they come in. The string they use also seems to be basically fishing line.

For sure on that. I've rounded them right off or sheared them. It's best if you can when the engine is brand new to remove one at a time and never seize them. Just for grins I tried removing one on my LCT snowblower engine the other day. Nope! Started rounding off the hex.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted by 92saturnsl2
Originally Posted by ragtoplvr
My Kohler courage has been excellent, 10 years so far, not one single issue. has around 350 hours on it.

Rod


I too, have had excellent service from my Kohler Courage XT-7 (single cylinder) on my pressure washer. It's over 10 years old now and has never given me even a hiccup of trouble. Always starts on the first pull, good smooth power.



The big single cylinder kohler courage engines seem to be the ones with most issues. Like 18-20hp and up.

I had a courage 20hp V-twin on a ZTR that was a fine engine and as far as i know is still going strong 10yrs later.

 

[cjolson140]

If you happen to have a kohler courage, it is imperative that you check and re-torque the bolts on the top crankcase cover (around the flywheel). They vibrate loose over time, and the structural integrity provided by the top cover is lost, followed by the block literally cracking in half between the crankcase and cylinder.

My uncle's White lawn tractor with a courage cracked it's block with about 300 hours on the clock. It still ran, but leaked a ton of oil, and you could see the cylinder move relative to the case with every combustion event!

Edit: this is on single cylinder models, not sure specifically which ones have the problem