BIL's 2012 S550 Mercedes Repair Bill

[Treadstone]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Treadstone
Guy at work bought a Phaeton with like 162k on the clock. The pile of repair receipts from the previous owner that came with the car totaled something like $26-30k.

He already had to have the engine wiring harness replaced due to misfire CELs. Apparently, not oil but coolant migrates in these harnesses.

Phaeton was a darling project for Ferdinand Peich. He said: I want best luxury car to be developed. They literally could not care less about maintenance costs. That was not even an afterthought. Only reason why they developed it was to prove to Mercedes and BMW that VW can do it. When German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder decided for the first time in German automotive history to switch from MB S class to Phaeton, VW declared victory, and never made car again

They achieved their goal.



Too bad for the suckers that bought them.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Treadstone
Guy at work bought a Phaeton with like 162k on the clock. The pile of repair receipts from the previous owner that came with the car totaled something like $26-30k.

He already had to have the engine wiring harness replaced due to misfire CELs. Apparently, not oil but coolant migrates in these harnesses.

Phaeton was a darling project for Ferdinand Peich. He said: I want best luxury car to be developed. They literally could not care less about maintenance costs. That was not even an afterthought. Only reason why they developed it was to prove to Mercedes and BMW that VW can do it. When German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder decided for the first time in German automotive history to switch from MB S class to Phaeton, VW declared victory, and never made car again

They achieved their goal.

What a load of crap.

The VW Phaeton was a way to absorb the costs of R&D for the new Bentley Continental. Of course Piech made it all about him, that was his personality.

It was a very well engineered car, but they're not cheap to look after if you demand it be kept in perfect condition. Mine, since new, cost various warranties and the original owner almost $40k in maintenance and repairs.

Not all of that was necessary (IMHO) and it was of course all done at the dealer, but it is what it is.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Mondeo was sold in the US as Contour, wasnt it? Wife had one as an extended rental. It was decent.


I drove a couple. Most glaringly, they were CRAMPED. As in, I was jammed into the door, console, and headliner. Yikes!

The fact you could get a Taurus for a few dollars more than a high-end Contour didn't help sales, I'm sure.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Treadstone
Guy at work bought a Phaeton with like 162k on the clock. The pile of repair receipts from the previous owner that came with the car totaled something like $26-30k.

He already had to have the engine wiring harness replaced due to misfire CELs. Apparently, not oil but coolant migrates in these harnesses.

Phaeton was a darling project for Ferdinand Peich. He said: I want best luxury car to be developed. They literally could not care less about maintenance costs. That was not even an afterthought. Only reason why they developed it was to prove to Mercedes and BMW that VW can do it. When German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder decided for the first time in German automotive history to switch from MB S class to Phaeton, VW declared victory, and never made car again

They achieved their goal.

What a load of crap.

The VW Phaeton was a way to absorb the costs of R&D for the new Bentley Continental. Of course Piech made it all about him, that was his personality.

It was a very well engineered car, but they're not cheap to look after if you demand it be kept in perfect condition. Mine, since new, cost various warranties and the original owner almost $40k in maintenance and repairs.

Not all of that was necessary (IMHO) and it was of course all done at the dealer, but it is what it is.

IDK, I was working for car magazine at that time and that was big talk in community. Knowing German culture, to me that makes a lot of sense. I highly doubt it was done to absorb Bentley costs. VW was flying high at that time and was willing to do a lot of stuff that were just revolving around national pride and nothing else.

 

[Ws6]

Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Not sure about current models, but some 20 years ago, BMW insisted on using the worst possible gasket material that just didn't last. Take it through a few heat cycles and it becomes brittle, crumbles to pieces, and all sorts of leaks commence. And the further south you live, the quicker they fail. For example, the windshield gasket only lasted 4 years in Florida.

There are many aspects for which I like German cars, but then there are others that just puzzle me.


That was butyl rubber, the same material your valve cover gasket was made from and will eventually succumb to the same fate. They also used rubber for the o-rings in the VANOS, whilst the M-cars got viton ones, that didn't get hard and stop sealing. So even when they know there is an issue, they still pick and choose

I never had the cooling system issues you did (M5 had a different setup) but both my breather vent hoses rotted off the car and I'm sure my EVAP hose was rotten too, hence the code I got for it.

My sister's throttle elbow rotted off, and her VCG, like my wife's, became rock hard and leaked. Ford has been using silicone for valve cover gasket material since the 1990's, so I'm not sure what BMW's excuse is. At well north of 300,000Km, our Expedition didn't leak a drop of oil.

Viton is excellent. Now I'm curious what my Mazda used. I'm pretty sure my Jeep Grand Cherokee used recycled condoms, as my LCA bushings rotted out 4 years and 65K miles after it left the assembly plant (mind you, the OEM tires were still on it and holding air at this time...)


Oh, let's not start on suspension bushing material,

This is another component where you just swap out the entire control arm assembly when the bushings wear out. I know my sister's have been replaced at least once already. This is actually pretty common on German cars IIRC (and considering the JGC and certain Mercedes models share the platform, draw what you will from that) as suspension components are I believe considered "wear items" and have an anticipated lifespan. This is one of the areas where the SRT will likely fare better, as they use different, usually more robust, parts.

SRT is better, I'd just NEVER had a car do that. Axles hit struts on hard shifts in my JGC, no [censored]! My 170K mile 1995 Trans Am in the 2000's had no issues. Nor my 88 Mustang GT.

 

[RooflessVW]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Treadstone
Guy at work bought a Phaeton with like 162k on the clock. The pile of repair receipts from the previous owner that came with the car totaled something like $26-30k.

He already had to have the engine wiring harness replaced due to misfire CELs. Apparently, not oil but coolant migrates in these harnesses.

Phaeton was a darling project for Ferdinand Peich. He said: I want best luxury car to be developed. They literally could not care less about maintenance costs. That was not even an afterthought. Only reason why they developed it was to prove to Mercedes and BMW that VW can do it. When German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder decided for the first time in German automotive history to switch from MB S class to Phaeton, VW declared victory, and never made car again

They achieved their goal.

What a load of crap.

The VW Phaeton was a way to absorb the costs of R&D for the new Bentley Continental. Of course Piech made it all about him, that was his personality.

It was a very well engineered car, but they're not cheap to look after if you demand it be kept in perfect condition. Mine, since new, cost various warranties and the original owner almost $40k in maintenance and repairs.

Not all of that was necessary (IMHO) and it was of course all done at the dealer, but it is what it is.

IDK, I was working for car magazine at that time and that was big talk in community. Knowing German culture, to me that makes a lot of sense. I highly doubt it was done to absorb Bentley costs. VW was flying high at that time and was willing to do a lot of stuff that were just revolving around national pride and nothing else.

Exactly. Piech was a smart man.

Now think about it:

Sell the idea of the luxury car for the unpretentious businessman. The Ultimate Volkswagen. A Car specified by Piech himself. Make the Phaeton so Bentley would have a 90% complete chassis. Build Die Glasern Manufaktur, where the Continental and Phaeton were built side by side until Continental construction moved to Crewe some years later. Take a loss on every Phaeton sold while the Continental prints money for VAG. It was a very smart way to make Bentley instantly profitable while VW absorbed R&D and manufacturing costs.

Because of how he "sold" the Phaeton, Bentley was instantly in the black under VAG.

 

[edyvw]

Quote
Exactly. Piech was a smart man.

Now think about it:

Sell the idea of the luxury car for the unpretentious businessman. The Ultimate Volkswagen. A Car specified by Piech himself. Make the Phaeton so Bentley would have a 90% complete chassis. Build Die Glasern Manufaktur, where the Continental and Phaeton were built side by side until Continental construction moved to Crewe some years later. Take a loss on every Phaeton sold while the Continental prints money for VAG. It was a very smart way to make Bentley instantly profitable while VW absorbed R&D and manufacturing costs.

Because of how he "sold" the Phaeton, Bentley was instantly in the black under VAG.

Piech was very smart man, but I doubt that scenario. Bentley was never cash cow for VW, it is prestige to own it. Skoda, SEAT are the ones that print money, literally.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Quote
Exactly. Piech was a smart man.

Now think about it:

Sell the idea of the luxury car for the unpretentious businessman. The Ultimate Volkswagen. A Car specified by Piech himself. Make the Phaeton so Bentley would have a 90% complete chassis. Build Die Glasern Manufaktur, where the Continental and Phaeton were built side by side until Continental construction moved to Crewe some years later. Take a loss on every Phaeton sold while the Continental prints money for VAG. It was a very smart way to make Bentley instantly profitable while VW absorbed R&D and manufacturing costs.

Because of how he "sold" the Phaeton, Bentley was instantly in the black under VAG.

Piech was very smart man, but I doubt that scenario. Bentley was never cash cow for VW, it is prestige to own it. Skoda, SEAT are the ones that print money, literally.

What rooflessVW mentioned regarding VAG absorbing the cost of Bentley platform development via Phaeton is a widely circulated opinion. The reasons for such badge engineering are often tax related. VW has a lot higher revenue than Bentley. So it would be in VW's interest to help offset these revenues with some extra costs to help lower their tax liability.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted by Kjmack
The cost is all relative , if you're driving a car in your financial means the cost is the same for a guy driving s 8 year old beater Ford as it is for a guy driving a Mercedes . kind of like the price of a house a poor guy says wow what a waste of money the rich guy is well that's what a nice house cost . My father always had a nice Mercedes , I never heard him complain about the cost of ownership , why ? He could afford it .


Depreciating asset vs. Appreciating Asset

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted by john_pifer

Just one question , if you were very wealthy would you own a Honda or Toyota ? And I'm not bashing those , owned them and they were good transportation . Apples and oranges when people are comparing a 7 year old Ford to a Mercedes . My wife had never driven a Mercedes till we got married , she instantly saw a huge difference to the domestics


I've always thought to myself that if I ever bought a lux brand, it would be a Lexus.

I'll say this - I have always really liked Porsche 911s. But if I ever bought one, I'd do so with the knowledge that the reliability would not be on par with a Lexus, and I would accept the higher cost of ownership as just part of the price I'd have to pay to have that particular vehicle.

If someone wants a Euro brand, and goes into the purchase knowing full well that there will be more maintenance, costs will be higher, and more stuff on the car will break, and they can accept that, fine.

Personally, it's something I'd have to think very, very carefully about. And I'm not sure I could justify it.

[/quote]

You might be surprised to learn that Porsche has been neck-and-neck with Lexus for reliability for some time. They've come a long way since the 90s.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by edyvw
Quote
Exactly. Piech was a smart man.

Now think about it:

Sell the idea of the luxury car for the unpretentious businessman. The Ultimate Volkswagen. A Car specified by Piech himself. Make the Phaeton so Bentley would have a 90% complete chassis. Build Die Glasern Manufaktur, where the Continental and Phaeton were built side by side until Continental construction moved to Crewe some years later. Take a loss on every Phaeton sold while the Continental prints money for VAG. It was a very smart way to make Bentley instantly profitable while VW absorbed R&D and manufacturing costs.

Because of how he "sold" the Phaeton, Bentley was instantly in the black under VAG.

Piech was very smart man, but I doubt that scenario. Bentley was never cash cow for VW, it is prestige to own it. Skoda, SEAT are the ones that print money, literally.

What rooflessVW mentioned regarding VAG absorbing the cost of Bentley platform development via Phaeton is a widely circulated opinion. The reasons for such badge engineering are often tax related. VW has a lot higher revenue than Bentley. So it would be in VW's interest to help offset these revenues with some extra costs to help lower their tax liability.


Could be. I still think driving force behind developing Phaeton is simply VW's desire to make car like that. If they managed to gain something financially, well sure.