Do I need to add Cera Tec Friction Modifier?

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I own a 03 Porsche 911 C2, base model, completely stock. I bought the car in July of 2018 with 81K on it. It had Liqui Moly Leichtlauf High Tech 5w-40 in it and that's what I've been using since then. I've been changing the oil with about 4-5K miles on it.

Below I've posted a virgin sample of the oil, along with another UOA after 4K.

There's a very famous engine rebuilder that says that I should be adding one 300ml can of Liqui Mily Cera Tec Friction Modifier at each oil change.
Here's a link to that product:
Link to Cera Tec on Amazon

QUESTION: Do you guys think it's necessary to use the friction modifier? Any other thoughts/concerns?


Virgin UOA of Liqui Moly Leichtlauf High Tech 5w-40:

[Linked Image]


UOA sample taken Dec 8, 2018, after 4K miles on my 03 Porsche 911 C2, total miles on the car at the time was 85K.

[Linked Image]
 
Originally Posted by sasilverbullet
I own a 03 Porsche 911 C2, base model, completely stock. I bought the car in July of 2018 with 81K on it. It had Liqui Moly Leichtlauf High Tech 5w-40 in it and that's what I've been using since then. I've been changing the oil with about 4-5K miles on it.

Below I've posted a virgin sample of the oil, along with another UOA after 4K.

There's a very famous engine rebuilder that says that I should be adding one 300ml can of Liqui Mily Cera Tec Friction Modifier at each oil change.
Here's a link to that product:
Link to Cera Tec on Amazon

QUESTION: Do you guys think it's necessary to use the friction modifier? Any other thoughts/concerns?


Virgin UOA of Liqui Moly Leichtlauf High Tech 5w-40:

[Linked Image]


UOA sample taken Dec 8, 2018, after 4K miles on my 03 Porsche 911 C2, total miles on the car at the time was 85K.

[Linked Image]


I do like how they layout the test showing we're they think the metals come from , unlike Blackstone
 
In vehicles that aren't driven daily it falls out of suspension, and will collect at the bottom of the oil pan. It has been discussed here, and IIRC pics were posted showing the event. I'd pass.
 
Total waste of money, that UOA looks good, the oil doesn't need anything additional. Solids and oil do not play well together, all of them will eventually drop out of suspension more so in seasonal or not daily driven engines.
 
the answer is definitely No

you never "need" to add any additives.
and in many owners manuals it will state to never use any additives.
 
SASB,

That is an interesting oil analysis. What was the lab you used? I'm always interested as I have always used Blackstone but was wanting to try another for comparison. Thank you.
 
It might reduce friction with possible AW too. You really don't know for sure without real engineering tests, thats the problem with additives. They might or might not work.

CeraTec is mostly moly, with some boron. Most engineering tests on adding extra moly does help reduce friction, we know that.

People who say "it'll never work" (above) are wrong. Sometimes it will.
 
15ppm total wear metals, what more do you want. Whiz bang in a can isn't helping much if at all unless you consider junk in the bottom of the pan and white graphite (Ceratec= h-BN aka white graphite) snot clumped inside the engine helpful.
 
Originally Posted by Trav
15ppm total wear metals, what more do you want. Whiz bang in a can isn't helping much if at all unless you consider junk in the bottom of the pan and white graphite (Ceratec= h-BN aka white graphite) snot clumped inside the engine helpful.
Not much boron in Ceratec. A 20:1 ratio of it in your sump would only raise boron levels by 18 ppm, that's all.
Moly will go up by 270 ppm which is decent. Not excessive.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posted a while back:
Originally Posted by Izb
VOA of Ceratec: http://bmwservice.livejournal.com/38285.html
Mo:5419 ppm
Bo: 359 ppm
Mainly ammonium molybdenum (strictly according to MSDS: 5%)

----------------------------------------------------------------
 
Liqui Moly make some very good products. I have not used this one but in general they are solid products with good results. I have used other ones and results were always as expected. Read some reviews and see if you can find online testing. This is not a Slick 50 or Dura Lube manufacturer.
 
Snake oil is snake oil no matter who makes it. They do make some good products but in general MoS2 and these "ceramic" engine snake oils are a waste of time and money today. The oils and engines 30 years ago may have benefited from MoS2 but not today.
 
Originally Posted by spk2000
Liqui Moly make some very good products. I have not used this one but in general they are solid products with good results. I have used other ones and results were always as expected. Read some reviews and see if you can find online testing. This is not a Slick 50 or Dura Lube manufacturer.



Testaments and two bit advertising is not scienctific nor repeatable testing.
 
There are two things on every 996 owner's mind: the IMS bearing and bore score. Oil additives will save your from neither. If your engine's death clock hits zero, it hits zero.

If adding CeraTec or using Driven DT40 helps you feel better, then there is something to be said for that. Whatever helps you enjoy the car.
 
Originally Posted by T-Bone
SASB,

That is an interesting oil analysis. What was the lab you used? I'm always interested as I have always used Blackstone but was wanting to try another for comparison. Thank you.


Speed Diagnostix

LN Engineering (rebuilds Porsche engines, very respected) seems to be the major backer for this company. They are NOT cheap! $61 a UOA! I wouldn't have used them if LN Engineering had not sent me the kits for free. They want to track my car's UOA's because I drive it 400+ miles a week.
 
Originally Posted by oil_film_movies
Originally Posted by Trav
15ppm total wear metals, what more do you want. Whiz bang in a can isn't helping much if at all unless you consider junk in the bottom of the pan and white graphite (Ceratec= h-BN aka white graphite) snot clumped inside the engine helpful.
Not much boron in Ceratec. A 20:1 ratio of it in your sump would only raise boron levels by 18 ppm, that's all.
Moly will go up by 270 ppm which is decent. Not excessive.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posted a while back:
Originally Posted by Izb
VOA of Ceratec: http://bmwservice.livejournal.com/38285.html
Mo:5419 ppm
Bo: 359 ppm
Mainly ammonium molybdenum (strictly according to MSDS: 5%)

----------------------------------------------------------------




LN Engineering rebuilds Porsche engines, they're the folks that design and build the "solution" IMS bearing replacement kit. I've been chatting with the head honcho there and he sent me the oil analysis kits free of charge because he wants to keep watching my UOA's because I drive it 400+ miles a week. I'm definitely up for that!

He recommends using Ceratec to bring the moly level up. I'm about 5 wks away from another oil change, at which time I'll send off another sample and I'm going to put in 300ml on that oil change. Normal fill is about 9.5 liters of oil.

Thanks for the information, from what you said I feel safe that because I drive it a lot it definitely won't hurt. LN Engineering will send me another kit to see what the levels are with the Ceratec in it.

Side note for everyone: I do drive the car pretty hard even though it's my daily driver! But that's the fun of driving a Porsche... (POR - SHUH, two syllables please)
 
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