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Re: Fram XG12060 - GM 22psi spec Ultra coming soon! [Re: Patman] #5065593 04/05/19 08:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 10,027
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Colt45ws Offline
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Originally Posted by Patman
Some people have mentioned being able to order the new XG12060 online but nobody has yet to see one in stores, even though it was supposed to be out in January. I thought I might find it at Walmarts in the US but I've checked a few now to no avail. I might just end up sticking with the NAPA Golds for a while.

One thing to remember is retailers only redo their shelving design and what products they will carry every so often. This issue is probably due to that not having been done yet. They cant just add a new product to the shelf. Im inquiring as to how often the oil filter mod is refreshed, as each area is different.

Last edited by Colt45ws; 04/05/19 08:03 PM.

-Colton
2002 Ford Crown Vic PI 207k, Ex-Kootenai County, ID Unit #42
Down for engine swap
2003 Ford Crown Vic PI 86k
Pennzoil Conv HM 5W30, Fram XG2
Re: Fram XG12060 - GM 22psi spec Ultra coming soon! [Re: Al] #5066802 04/07/19 08:21 AM
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LEADED Offline
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Posts: 134
Problems, in the Field surface when IDIOTS run 10w 40 or a can of Hi VII instead of called for PCMO + add -20° temp & you have problems . Being rational is one thing . Being STUPID is another thing . Use whatever your heart desire .

Re: Fram XG12060 - GM 22psi spec Ultra coming soon! [Re: webfors] #5082315 04/22/19 12:16 AM
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GM4LIFE Offline
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I just scored a bunch of the new XG 12060 filters on eBay for about $7.00 each shipped! I bought whatever they had! The seller said they are getting a bunch more in.

Last edited by GM4LIFE; 04/22/19 12:16 AM.
Re: Fram XG12060 - GM 22psi spec Ultra coming soon! [Re: webfors] #5082731 04/22/19 12:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 77
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DudeNiceRide Offline
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I'm sick of hearing about this topic on here and elsewhere.

Running the FRAM 9-15psi pressure RV (figure 12psi is the average) will NOT hurt your engine which GM has designated a user of "only 22psi relief valves". Come people....COME ON. Use your high-powered brains.

What will actually hurt your engine???
- Running the WRONG OIL grade or type. Hard for the warranty people to prove you used wrong oil after your engine blows.
- Letting your oil level fall low (ex. several GM's drink oil, FYI). Hard to prove you're a slacker of a vehicle maintainer.
- Using crappy filters mostly from off-shore. Hard to prove what garbage you were running prior to the last filter you had on when the engine blew.
- Running your oil & filter too long. Hard to prove you're a slacker of a vehicle maintainer.
- Running low on coolant in hot months. Hard to prove you're a slacker of a vehicle maintainer.
- Not keep up with air filter changes (contamination only comes from engine wear, fuel & the intake air). Hard to prove you're a slacker of a vehicle maintainer.
- Using crappy air filters. Hard to prove you're a cheap-skate. And I don't see any bulletins about using the right air filter.
- Your drive-cycle (stop-n-go versus highway). Vehicle has to be designed around everyone including some outliers.
- Your right foot & it's relationship with the right pedal. Hard to prove you're a lead-foot.

IMHO...the warranty guys at GM are freaking out about warranty #'s and trying to deflect problems and $$$. Some manager has a task to lower the cost of warranty, likely. Writing a tech service bulletin costs $0 to GM, so even if one single engine warranty claim is avoided, GM is ahead of the game. It's dumb.

Sure the newer engines might be pushing oil a little faster with a little more pressure. But the normal operating range is pretty much the same. GM chose one simple numerical value from a bolt-on component as a focal point so as to divert warranty claims. It's simple and really really easy to prove.

What GM doesn't tell you is the NET EFFECT of the filter as a NET FILTRATION SYSTEM. Sure the GM pressure RV might open a little earlier, but the retail FRAM/Wix/Puro media is probably higher efficiency (stops more dirt) than the GM filter. So what's worse...

[A] the valve opening a tiny bit sooner in very rare cases over the course of the 5k-10k the filter is on your vehicle

-OR-

[B] the constant lower efficiency performance of the crappier GM media that is performing less under all conditions and scenarios??


The BIG3 are also switching over to thinner oils and variable displacement pumps on engines with higher combustion temps and pressures. So your engine doesn't have any "oil protection insurance" like it used to, and there are more evil forces there to act against your lubrication system than ever before. OE engineers are only letting your engine have juuuuuuuuuuuust enough oil so they can meet their efficiency and EPA emission targets. And it's at the cost of the extra layer of protection the engines once had. FACT.

The reason FRAM and many other popular brands (Wix, Purolator, Luberfiner, etc) have a consolidated offering is because of [#1] lack of shelf space at the retail stores to carry OEM-matched sizes, and [#2] the consolidations are made without any impact to performance of warranty concerns.

Re: Fram XG12060 - GM 22psi spec Ultra coming soon! [Re: DudeNiceRide] #5082811 04/22/19 02:29 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 569
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Pinoak Offline
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 569
Originally Posted by DudeNiceRide
I'm sick of hearing about this topic on here and elsewhere.

Running the FRAM 9-15psi pressure RV (figure 12psi is the average) will NOT hurt your engine which GM has designated a user of "only 22psi relief valves". Come people....COME ON. Use your high-powered brains.

What will actually hurt your engine???
- Running the WRONG OIL grade or type. Hard for the warranty people to prove you used wrong oil after your engine blows.
- Letting your oil level fall low (ex. several GM's drink oil, FYI). Hard to prove you're a slacker of a vehicle maintainer.
- Using crappy filters mostly from off-shore. Hard to prove what garbage you were running prior to the last filter you had on when the engine blew.
- Running your oil & filter too long. Hard to prove you're a slacker of a vehicle maintainer.
- Running low on coolant in hot months. Hard to prove you're a slacker of a vehicle maintainer.
- Not keep up with air filter changes (contamination only comes from engine wear, fuel & the intake air). Hard to prove you're a slacker of a vehicle maintainer.
- Using crappy air filters. Hard to prove you're a cheap-skate. And I don't see any bulletins about using the right air filter.
- Your drive-cycle (stop-n-go versus highway). Vehicle has to be designed around everyone including some outliers.
- Your right foot & it's relationship with the right pedal. Hard to prove you're a lead-foot.

IMHO...the warranty guys at GM are freaking out about warranty #'s and trying to deflect problems and $$$. Some manager has a task to lower the cost of warranty, likely. Writing a tech service bulletin costs $0 to GM, so even if one single engine warranty claim is avoided, GM is ahead of the game. It's dumb.

Sure the newer engines might be pushing oil a little faster with a little more pressure. But the normal operating range is pretty much the same. GM chose one simple numerical value from a bolt-on component as a focal point so as to divert warranty claims. It's simple and really really easy to prove.

What GM doesn't tell you is the NET EFFECT of the filter as a NET FILTRATION SYSTEM. Sure the GM pressure RV might open a little earlier, but the retail FRAM/Wix/Puro media is probably higher efficiency (stops more dirt) than the GM filter. So what's worse...

[A] the valve opening a tiny bit sooner in very rare cases over the course of the 5k-10k the filter is on your vehicle

-OR-

[B] the constant lower efficiency performance of the crappier GM media that is performing less under all conditions and scenarios??


The BIG3 are also switching over to thinner oils and variable displacement pumps on engines with higher combustion temps and pressures. So your engine doesn't have any "oil protection insurance" like it used to, and there are more evil forces there to act against your lubrication system than ever before. OE engineers are only letting your engine have juuuuuuuuuuuust enough oil so they can meet their efficiency and EPA emission targets. And it's at the cost of the extra layer of protection the engines once had. FACT.

The reason FRAM and many other popular brands (Wix, Purolator, Luberfiner, etc) have a consolidated offering is because of [#1] lack of shelf space at the retail stores to carry OEM-matched sizes, and [#2] the consolidations are made without any impact to performance of warranty concerns.


Why don't you put in your resume with GM. You have all the knowledge they must be lacking. Let me know if you get a reply from them, ok. LOL

Last edited by Pinoak; 04/22/19 02:30 PM.
Re: Fram XG12060 - GM 22psi spec Ultra coming soon! [Re: DudeNiceRide] #5082942 04/22/19 04:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,913
JohnnyJohnson Offline
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Posts: 4,913
Originally Posted by DudeNiceRide
I'm sick of hearing about this topic on here and elsewhere.

Running the FRAM 9-15psi pressure RV (figure 12psi is the average) will NOT hurt your engine which GM has designated a user of "only 22psi relief valves". Come people....COME ON. Use your high-powered brains.

z

IMHO...the warranty guys at GM are freaking out about warranty #'s and trying to deflect problems and $$$. Some manager has a task to lower the cost of warranty, likely. Writing a tech service bulletin costs $0 to GM, so even if one single engine warranty claim is avoided, GM is ahead of the game. It's dumb.



Bottom line is if you build a decent quality product you aren't going to have warranty issues. They have one goal maximize profit and push the problems like LSPI off on the customer.


2004 Corolla 134989
Out: EDGE EP 5W-30 Bosch 3311 7156 Miles
In: Havoline Pro DS 10w-30 Purolator PureOne 3-14-19 129693
2006 Duramax 76356
Out: T6 5W-40 M1-303
In: T6 5W-40 XG9100 73705 4-22-18
Re: Fram XG12060 - GM 22psi spec Ultra coming soon! [Re: DudeNiceRide] #5082948 04/22/19 04:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 21,537
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ZeeOSix Offline
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Originally Posted by DudeNiceRide
The BIG3 are also switching over to thinner oils and variable displacement pumps on engines with higher combustion temps and pressures. So your engine doesn't have any "oil protection insurance" like it used to, and there are more evil forces there to act against your lubrication system than ever before. OE engineers are only letting your engine have juuuuuuuuuuuust enough oil so they can meet their efficiency and EPA emission targets. And it's at the cost of the extra layer of protection the engines once had. FACT.


These newer variable volume oil pumps save around 1/4 HP at near full output, which probably gives about an additional 0.005 mpg. The majority of cars on the road don't put out 8~10 GPM of oil volume anyway, even at near redline. So using a variable volume oil pump on most of these cars isn't really making much difference at all, except to complicate the oiling system.

I think GM is ultra paranoid of filter bypass events because they had a few instances where sloppy manufacturing left metal debris inside the engine that got past the oil filter. IMO, it has little to do with their oiling system or how the oil pump controls maximum pressure (ie, the location of the 'feedback pressure sensor' as described in their TSB). Any positive displacement oil pump (including the computer controlled variable volume pumps) will flow out their maximum capable volume until the pressure sensor kicks in. If the pump pressure control sensor is down stream of the oil filter instead of at the pump it might make the pump reduce flow about 1/2 second faster. The higher filter bypass valve setting might make a difference in very cold climates on cold starts. Another thing to realize is when an oil filter uses a very high bypass valve setting, the media and center tube better be able to take the extra delta-p forces and not fail.

Re: Fram XG12060 - GM 22psi spec Ultra coming soon! [Re: ZeeOSix] #5083052 04/22/19 06:42 PM
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Posts: 5,139
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webfors Offline OP
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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Another thing to realize is when an oil filter uses a very high bypass valve setting, the media and center tube better be able to take the extra delta-p forces and not fail.


^This. grin


17 Cadillac ATS 2.0T, Edge D1G2 5w30, Champion COS10590
17 Dodge GC, VWB 5w30, Mopar MO-349
18 DL1000XT, Valvoline Dino 20w50, Suzuki OEM OF
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Re: Fram XG12060 - GM 22psi spec Ultra coming soon! [Re: webfors] #5098369 05/07/19 12:41 PM
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GM4LIFE Offline
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Just found an ebay listing for the new XG 12060 filters.

Go to ebay and search for XG12060 and they are: $49.95 for a 6 pack of filters delivered.


Last edited by GM4LIFE; 05/07/19 12:43 PM.
Re: Fram XG12060 - GM 22psi spec Ultra coming soon! [Re: webfors] #5101206 05/10/19 05:05 AM
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Linctex Offline
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Originally Posted by webfors
Or just use an oversized filter with 50+ % more media to mitigate the potential of bypass events.
.



The synthetic media of the XG10575 (no matter what color plastic button in the bypass) flows so well, the likelihood of a bypass event is near nil anyway.

Some people worry far too much about things that need to not be worrying about...........


"The evidence demands a verdict".
(Re:VOA)"it's nearly impossible to actually know the particular additives that are in there at what concentrations."
Re: Fram XG12060 - GM 22psi spec Ultra coming soon! [Re: webfors] #5177456 08/02/19 11:58 AM
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RD_3 Offline
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Anyone get their hands on this filter yet?


2015 Malibu LTZ 2.5L - 50K
2013 DGC SXT 3.6L - 65K
2014 DGC SXT 3.6L - 70K (traded in)
2007 DGC SXT 3.8L - 127K (traded in)
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