A Beechcraft Duke went down on takeoff from Fullerton Airport in SoCal over the weekend. VMC roll?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvW-zUnC_Ds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvW-zUnC_Ds
Duke Crash
- Thread starter pilottravis
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Yikes, that's awful to watch
There have been quite a few light twins loosing it lately, either Spacial disorientation in IMC or loss of power leading to the dreaded vmc roll. I've only flown a few twins and I can see them being a handful and a half especially when things get complicated..
Yikes. Looked like they yanked it off the runway before they had flying speed....that's a "back to basics" type of mistake and unfortunately fatal this time.
That crash would have been fatal with or w/o a full tank of fuel.
Yeah, very bad crash.
Originally Posted by JLTD
Yikes. Looked like they yanked it off the runway before they had flying speed....that's a "back to basics" type of mistake and unfortunately fatal this time.
If this plane had counter rotating propellers would it be more inclined to just stall and fall back into to ground effect? This aircraft seemed to be influenced by either 2x RH propellers or maybe it was C/R props and the right engine failed...? I'm a PP ASEL with little knowledge on mulit's. Obviously any aircraft can enter a spin uncoordinated especially during high angle of attack (Stall) and with high power settings it just looks like this one flipped over too quick!
Yikes. Looked like they yanked it off the runway before they had flying speed....that's a "back to basics" type of mistake and unfortunately fatal this time.
If this plane had counter rotating propellers would it be more inclined to just stall and fall back into to ground effect? This aircraft seemed to be influenced by either 2x RH propellers or maybe it was C/R props and the right engine failed...? I'm a PP ASEL with little knowledge on mulit's. Obviously any aircraft can enter a spin uncoordinated especially during high angle of attack (Stall) and with high power settings it just looks like this one flipped over too quick!
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Originally Posted by vw7674
THAT'S why I never fly with a full load of fuel.
Gives me a chance to walk away from these types of landings ...
Right ... Nose first into the ground at probably 100 + mph ... you're not walking' away.
THAT'S why I never fly with a full load of fuel.
Gives me a chance to walk away from these types of landings ...
Right ... Nose first into the ground at probably 100 + mph ... you're not walking' away.
Originally Posted by pilottravis
A Beechcraft Duke went down on takeoff from Fullerton Airport in SoCal over the weekend. VMC roll?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvW-zUnC_Ds
Hard to know, but that pitch attitude on takeoff was awfully high. Looked to be 25-30 degrees. Way, way too high for that airplane to sustain airspeed.
So, pitch up too high?
Then stall?
Rotate too slow?
Then stall?
At high pitch, losing an engine would put you below VMC in a hurry.
That airplane looked like it snap-rolled. Hard to know if it was just p-factor at slow speed, or if an engine failed.
A Beechcraft Duke went down on takeoff from Fullerton Airport in SoCal over the weekend. VMC roll?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvW-zUnC_Ds
Hard to know, but that pitch attitude on takeoff was awfully high. Looked to be 25-30 degrees. Way, way too high for that airplane to sustain airspeed.
So, pitch up too high?
Then stall?
Rotate too slow?
Then stall?
At high pitch, losing an engine would put you below VMC in a hurry.
That airplane looked like it snap-rolled. Hard to know if it was just p-factor at slow speed, or if an engine failed.
Another Beechcraft twin down near Kerrville, TX, today with six fatalities.
https://www.thestate.com/news/nation-world/national/article229543479.html
https://www.thestate.com/news/nation-world/national/article229543479.html
Originally Posted by AdmdeVilleneuve
Another Beechcraft twin down near Kerrville, TX, today with six fatalities.
https://www.thestate.com/news/nation-world/national/article229543479.html
Crashed plane is intact, looks like it stalled and pancaked. Do the reddish plants on the hill look squashed down from the plane?
Another Beechcraft twin down near Kerrville, TX, today with six fatalities.
https://www.thestate.com/news/nation-world/national/article229543479.html
Crashed plane is intact, looks like it stalled and pancaked. Do the reddish plants on the hill look squashed down from the plane?
Originally Posted by geeman789
Originally Posted by vw7674
THAT'S why I never fly with a full load of fuel.
Gives me a chance to walk away from these types of landings ...
Right ... Nose first into the ground at probably 100 + mph ... you're not walking' away.
oh yeah, I unbuckle the harness & somersault out of the plexiglass windshield to relative safety too!
(it was only meant as a semi-tasteless joke) & that WAS lotsa fuel!!!
Originally Posted by vw7674
THAT'S why I never fly with a full load of fuel.
Gives me a chance to walk away from these types of landings ...
Right ... Nose first into the ground at probably 100 + mph ... you're not walking' away.
oh yeah, I unbuckle the harness & somersault out of the plexiglass windshield to relative safety too!
(it was only meant as a semi-tasteless joke) & that WAS lotsa fuel!!!
Originally Posted by AdmdeVilleneuve
Another Beechcraft twin down near Kerrville, TX, today with six fatalities.
https://www.thestate.com/news/nation-world/national/article229543479.html
Twins have an abysmal safety record. They're harder to fly than singles, and tend to be owned by people with lots of money who don't fly often.
We call them "Doctor Killers"...
Another Beechcraft twin down near Kerrville, TX, today with six fatalities.
https://www.thestate.com/news/nation-world/national/article229543479.html
Twins have an abysmal safety record. They're harder to fly than singles, and tend to be owned by people with lots of money who don't fly often.
We call them "Doctor Killers"...
Originally Posted by Capt
Originally Posted by JLTD
Yikes. Looked like they yanked it off the runway before they had flying speed....that's a "back to basics" type of mistake and unfortunately fatal this time.
If this plane had counter rotating propellers would it be more inclined to just stall and fall back into to ground effect? This aircraft seemed to be influenced by either 2x RH propellers or maybe it was C/R props and the right engine failed...? I'm a PP ASEL with little knowledge on mulit's. Obviously any aircraft can enter a spin uncoordinated especially during high angle of attack (Stall) and with high power settings it just looks like this one flipped over too quick!
Lots of things could have happened. I'm not as well versed as Astro14, but to me it looked like that was either a stalled left wing or a failing left engine/VMC roll over, either of which could cause what we saw in the video.
Edit: and after looking at it several more times, it appears that there was a yaw to the left just prior to the roll...which would suggest an engine issue.
Originally Posted by JLTD
Yikes. Looked like they yanked it off the runway before they had flying speed....that's a "back to basics" type of mistake and unfortunately fatal this time.
If this plane had counter rotating propellers would it be more inclined to just stall and fall back into to ground effect? This aircraft seemed to be influenced by either 2x RH propellers or maybe it was C/R props and the right engine failed...? I'm a PP ASEL with little knowledge on mulit's. Obviously any aircraft can enter a spin uncoordinated especially during high angle of attack (Stall) and with high power settings it just looks like this one flipped over too quick!
Lots of things could have happened. I'm not as well versed as Astro14, but to me it looked like that was either a stalled left wing or a failing left engine/VMC roll over, either of which could cause what we saw in the video.
Edit: and after looking at it several more times, it appears that there was a yaw to the left just prior to the roll...which would suggest an engine issue.
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I know I have raised this a couple of times in the past, and it can seem funny but isn't in the least, but I have seen this crazy disaster and near disaster before. Seat track unlocks or breaks throwing pilot backwards while still gripping the yoke as the only way the pilot can hope to be able to reach the throttles to chop power. Results in that jerked up attitude and falling off to the left (one hand death gripping the yoke while reaching for the throttles with the other) at the worst possible time. it happened to me and it's an absolute miracle I'm still here. You can imagine why it stays with me even as I agree with others that an engine failure *surprise* may be to blame here.
Check those seat tracks!
Check those seat tracks!
Originally Posted by Astro14
Twins have an abysmal safety record. They're harder to fly than singles, and tend to be owned by people with lots of money who don't fly often.
That gives me a business idea. How about an Uber for the air, with the first Uber pilot being Harrison Ford?
Twins have an abysmal safety record. They're harder to fly than singles, and tend to be owned by people with lots of money who don't fly often.
That gives me a business idea. How about an Uber for the air, with the first Uber pilot being Harrison Ford?
With all six seats accommodating adults, some gear from each of them and enough gas to get somewhere, what would you bet that this Baron was over maximum allowable gross?
While illegal, this will actually work just fine in practice with most piston twins as long as both keep turning.
If one fails, there might then not be enough single engine performance to maintain level flight above VMCSE and the pilot's only option would be pull back the good engine and accept the forced landing.
This aircraft appears to have entered a spin when the pilot got slow enough to run out of control authority on one engine and twins aren't required to be recoverable from spins anyway, while all singles must have a published spin recovery technique.
The aircraft appears to have hit the ground at a high rate of vertical speed and low forward velocity.
The area looks as though there were good forced landing sites available had only the pilot accepted that this was inevitable.
While illegal, this will actually work just fine in practice with most piston twins as long as both keep turning.
If one fails, there might then not be enough single engine performance to maintain level flight above VMCSE and the pilot's only option would be pull back the good engine and accept the forced landing.
This aircraft appears to have entered a spin when the pilot got slow enough to run out of control authority on one engine and twins aren't required to be recoverable from spins anyway, while all singles must have a published spin recovery technique.
The aircraft appears to have hit the ground at a high rate of vertical speed and low forward velocity.
The area looks as though there were good forced landing sites available had only the pilot accepted that this was inevitable.
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