Keep K&N or NOT ?

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The K&N filters of old are not the same as the ones of today. The old ones used medical gauze, and you could not see a star field through the filter when held up to the light.

I've read through a lot of posts here but the best argument about K&N vs. OEM filters was a study done using the ISO 5011 test procedure. K&N says they use this procedure with a varying levels of efficiency. The only other aftermarket air filter company that I know of is S&B who uses the ISO 5011 test on each of it's filters for different filters and posts the results. You cannot go to the K&N site and look up the filter for your specific vehicle and see the ISO test for that particular filter for your vehicle.

Read the test here: https://nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html

I found the niclub test results extremely compelling. Especially when it came to total filter loading, and more importantly the efficiency of the stock filter vs. the K&N especially in terms of how many grams of dirt the K&N passed through to the engine.

My most recent experience with K&N was on my 2014 F-350 6.7 liter truck. I installed a Gale Banks air box and K&N filter was pretty happy until my UOA started showing signs of increased silicon and sodium. There was no coolant in the sample and later I realized that it was left over road salt that was passing through the filter.

After reading the nico club test I took out the K&N and put the stock filter back in. There was an immediate drop in silicon and sodium in the UOA report. I use Tribology labs in case you are interested.

I've read in some older threads where some had a similar experience as me, and other posters asserted that the reason must be that K&N was not seated properly etc. In the case of my unit, it goes onto the end of the Banks supplied plastic adapter tube and is held on with a hose clamp, thus it is very easy to assure a proper seat of the filter onto the tube.. The stock paper filter housing takes just a little time and effort to assure that the stock paper filter gasket is seated properly.

After reinstalling the sock filter, and much to my horror, I wiped a clean rag inside of the plastic tube that connects the K&N filter to the stock bellows, and found that it was coated in a layer of fine grit. This to me was quantified by not only the UOA results, but also the nico club test.

During the time I had the K&N installed, the only difference I noticed was a more audible intake note at idle. There was otherwise no other difference in performance including MPG.

My truck uses a restriction gauge in the ducting between the air filter and the inlet side of the turbo charger and I have never once seen this restriction gauge move, had the same set up on my 2005 6.0 diesel. I tested both restriction gauges to verify that they worked, and, it takes an incredibly small amount of vacuum to make these gauges register. The 6.0 was kind of cool in that it would illuminate an idiot light on the dash when the restriction gauge was about 3/4 of the way to it's full throw.

Point being that K&N does a great job of marketing their product, they have cool little active displays with a ping pong ball that gets lifted by the vacuum from a stock air filter and doesn't by the drop in K&N filter. K&N advertises 94% efficiency which seems really good until you compare that with 99% efficiency of your stock air filter. They also claim horsepower gains that are achieved at WOT, but at what cost? You have to ask yourself, is a 10 hp gain really worth it if the filter is passing dirt that could otherwise be prohibited by using the stock filter? For me the answer is a big NO.
 
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There were ISO 5011 tests done on AFE, K&N, AC Delco paper, and a few other filters. I was primarily interested in the pressure drop at high flows (like 600 cfm to 900 cfm or more). The general idea I got from the report was that the pressure drop delta was at most something like 0.6 psi (they use inH20) which is not that big of a restriction between paper and a K&N especially considering the efficiency decrease with a K&N.
For the drag strip or race track, I wouldn't hesitate to run a K&N because that 0.6 psi decrease in restriction could help my turbo charged air remain slightly cooler.

From my own testing and data collection, K&N filters didn't allow my engine to flow more air. The amount of air mass flowed was the same between paper, AFE Pro Dry, K&N, AEM, Green Filter whether the engine was naturally aspirated or twin turbocharged.

someone dyno'd a Taurus SHO without an airbox (EcoBoost are all speed density, no MAF) and saw 1-3 hp deviation, nothing statistically significant.

Those K&N and conical air intakes are basically hot air intakes.
 
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Originally Posted by SubeeTedII
So I have a 2005 Subaru Legacy Wgn, with the 2.5 single over head cam.
I got this car about 6 years ago, first thing I did was drop a K&N air filter into it !
Well, sad to say I haven't looked at that filter in years, well I just did , and really not too dirty !
..

So if I dump it, then I'm finding that is a sea of options other than good old OEM paper replacements !
UGH!


Sad all the bad things you did to your engine by putting in a K&N air filter, over the last 6 years.
Dump it, get a standard paper filter, it will be much better at filtering the dirt out of the air.

The reason the K&N looks good and not to dirty is the darn things do not filter properly.

Im shocked how many people use them thinking they are doing something good for their engine, amazing, the power of marketing. Show a race car that uses them and the public will buy them, little does the public realize, the pro race car engine is made to last for one race then of course you have some others made to last several races in the pro circuit, after that, new engine!
You do not do that with your car engine, rebuild it after as little a a couple hundred miles.

Of course I am going to upset some people here but K&N is a complete waste of money, complete scam company, making boatloads of money, selling filters far less effective then paper filters from Walmart, preying on people who fall for marketing/advertising.
 
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I dyno'd my bone stock 1993 Camaro with the 5.7L LT1 and it showed 242 rwhp and 270 rwtq. A friend insisted the ACDelco filter was holding it back so we took the K&N drop in out of his and put it in mine for the 3rd pull. It made absolutely no difference in power. It made the same 242/270 as with the OEM replacement ACDelco filter.
 
It's important to understand the original and effective purpose of K&N filters. Way back in the day, you would modify a car or build a race engine, and you were stuck with a problem.

The round air cleaner above your engine was not sufficient for the vast increase in breathing. K&N offered filters in sizes you weren't going to get from the dealership. A racer also didn't care about filtering efficiency because it wasn't an issue for them.

A racer could also clean and reuse. They didn't have to worry about constantly sourcing or keeping new paper filters around.

A street engine stock sized filter replacement was NEVER the correct application for them. Especially not a stock street engine.
 
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
It's important to understand the original and effective purpose of K&N filters. Way back in the day, you would modify a car or build a race engine, and you were stuck with a problem.

The round air cleaner above your engine was not sufficient for the vast increase in breathing. K&N offered filters in sizes you weren't going to get from the dealership. A racer also didn't care about filtering efficiency because it wasn't an issue for them.

A racer could also clean and reuse. They didn't have to worry about constantly sourcing or keeping new paper filters around.

A street engine stock sized filter replacement was NEVER the correct application for them. Especially not a stock street engine.

Strangely enough, some "factory hot rods" come with reusable air filters. I looked under the hood of a Toyota 86 TRD, and it had a sticker noting the TRD washable air filter. I'm not sure if that's oiled gauze or something else. I've even heard of some factory warranted setups that included K&N air filters.

Not that I would ever want to use one again. I tried one on an '89 Integra. It was a bit louder, but darned if I could sense any performance increase. I remember seeing a Motor Trend test of one where they found it reduced lower rev power.
 
It's been tested to death, but stock intake assembly is a greater restriction than the panel filter.

Even so, on my Navigator, I initially had my restriction gauge mounted above my throttle body, after my entire air intake and tube. Restriction shown with paper filter? None. After 20k miles? None. Tested the gauge with a vacuum tester too. Perfectly accurate.

Not only would a K&N or any other filter be a waste for my truck, but an entire intake kit would be too.
 
Hi Dale...

Was wondering what oil filter you were using?
Quote..
My most recent experience with K&N was on my 2014 F-350 6.7 liter truck. I installed a Gale Banks air box and K&N filter was pretty happy until my UOA started showing signs of increased silicon and sodium. There was no coolant in the sample and later I realized that it was left over road salt that was passing through the filter.
 
Sad all the bad things you did to your engine by putting in a K&N air filter, over the last 6 years.
Dump it, get a standard paper filter, it will be much better at filtering the dirt out of the air.

The reason the K&N looks good and not to dirty is the darn things do not filter properly.

Im shocked how many people use them thinking they are doing something good for their engine, amazing, the power of marketing. Show a race car that uses them and the public will buy them, little does the public realize, the pro race car engine is made to last for one race then of course you have some others made to last several races in the pro circuit, after that, new engine!
You do not do that with your car engine, rebuild it after as little a a couple hundred miles.

Of course I am going to upset some people here but K&N is a complete waste of money, complete scam company, making boatloads of money, selling filters far less effective then paper filters from Walmart, preying on people who fall for marketing/advertising.
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Some years back I read a test done with K&N, Foam, Paper. Paper handily won out. F&N lets more air...and more dirt...through. Foam came in second. I took the F&N out of my old Ranger. If anyone wants it free for postage, let me know.
 
BMC is the same as K&N. Porsche uses it as OE in one of their most expensive vehicles. And nowhere does it say this car is only for racing or weekend drives.

http://www.bmcairfilter.com.au/porsche-918-spyder-assembly-line/

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Originally Posted by wemay
BMC is the same as K&N.

I'm not one to bash K&N... But BMC filters are of a much higher quality. And when they make a product for an OEM, you can bet they're to the manufacturer's specification - not a "universal" one.
 
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by wemay
BMC is the same as K&N.

I'm not one to bash K&N... But BMC filters are of a much higher quality. And when they make a product for an OEM, you can bet they're to the manufacturer's specification - not a "universal" one.


I meant the same as in oiled cotton gauze. But I'm aware they're considered a step up from K&N also.
 
Originally Posted by wemay
Originally Posted by rooflessVW
Originally Posted by wemay
BMC is the same as K&N.

I'm not one to bash K&N... But BMC filters are of a much higher quality. And when they make a product for an OEM, you can bet they're to the manufacturer's specification - not a "universal" one.


I meant the same as in oiled cotton gauze. But I'm aware they're considered a step up from K&N also.



Just a step? How about a couple flights of steps!
 
I've used both, BMC isn't that much better build quality than K&N. Better? Yes. But the premise is the same...oiled cotton gauze.
 
Originally Posted by wemay
I've used both, BMC isn't that much better build quality than K&N. Better? Yes. But the premise is the same...oiled cotton gauze.

Right. The premise is the same, but not all filters are created equal, even of the same "type."

I don't have a problem with K&N. I have an FIPK on my Carrera. I ran the K&N cone that came with it for some time, but switched to a dry filter. My setup is susceptible to water and I didn't want to deal with an oiled filter.

If I had wanted to stay with an oiled filter, I still may have replaced the K&N with an aFe, BMC, or Green - all of which are higher quality filters with better construction.
 
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Originally Posted by wemay
BMC is the same as K&N. Porsche uses it as OE in one of their most expensive vehicles. And nowhere does it say this car is only for racing or weekend drives.

http://www.bmcairfilter.com.au/porsche-918-spyder-assembly-line/


It's a 918 Spyder. Weekend drives and track duty are all those cars are ever going to see.


Yes just severe service its whole life.
 
Originally Posted by DoubleWasp
Originally Posted by wemay
BMC is the same as K&N. Porsche uses it as OE in one of their most expensive vehicles. And nowhere does it say this car is only for racing or weekend drives.

http://www.bmcairfilter.com.au/porsche-918-spyder-assembly-line/


It's a 918 Spyder. Weekend drives and track duty are all those cars are ever going to see.


That's an assumption. We have no idea what an owner does with his vehicle. Especially in places like the middle east where these hyper cars aren't as coddled.
 
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