Recommendation on API "SJ" oil source
- Thread starter LPE
- Start date
If you want the higher saps stuff go with a 10w-40 in your favorite brand. Or the 10w-30 HDEO. With small engines it's more about having sufficient viscosity for operating conditions than any particular additive package. Air cooled engines actually need to be filled based. South FL? 15w-40 or 15w-50. N wisconsin? I'd go with a 5w-30
I run 20w50 in my mowers. 42' North. in MA. Mostly to counter gas dilution. I do run 5w30 in the snowblower for starting reasons. Most important oil fact is check the level before use. The rest is personal choice.
The little bottles of Super Tech lawn mower oil are rated SJ. Theres no starburst, but the bottle says SJ. Its less than 2 bucks, and I use tons of it.
I ran 15w-50 in my mowers last year (Kohler Command V-twins), but discovered a lot of aeration in the oil when you pull the dipstick out after running for awhile. This does not occur with thinner weight oils, so I switched back to 10w-30 or 5w/15w-40 HDEO for my all my OPE.
If you have a Rural King in your area, they carry a Mystic Universal "all-fleet" SAE 30 that is SJ rated. The same oil is also available in 10w-30, 10w-40 and 15w-50 IIRC, but I can't recall if those weights carry a rating newer than SJ or not...
If you have a Rural King in your area, they carry a Mystic Universal "all-fleet" SAE 30 that is SJ rated. The same oil is also available in 10w-30, 10w-40 and 15w-50 IIRC, but I can't recall if those weights carry a rating newer than SJ or not...
Originally Posted by JavierH19
A tad late but Walmart sells a 20oz blue bottle "lawn mower oil" that's 10w-30 and says it's API SJ rated. Use that in my 4 stroke generator since the newer stuff is kinda crap and doesn't protect that well.
How do you know this to be the case?
A tad late but Walmart sells a 20oz blue bottle "lawn mower oil" that's 10w-30 and says it's API SJ rated. Use that in my 4 stroke generator since the newer stuff is kinda crap and doesn't protect that well.
How do you know this to be the case?
Originally Posted by JavierH19
A tad late but Walmart sells a 20oz blue bottle "lawn mower oil" that's 10w-30 and says it's API SJ rated. Use that in my 4 stroke generator since the newer stuff is kinda crap and doesn't protect that well.
I use this API SN in my 4 stroke generator - it protects it very well! Also, it comes in a blue bottle too.
https://bit.ly/3hchl5N
A tad late but Walmart sells a 20oz blue bottle "lawn mower oil" that's 10w-30 and says it's API SJ rated. Use that in my 4 stroke generator since the newer stuff is kinda crap and doesn't protect that well.
I use this API SN in my 4 stroke generator - it protects it very well! Also, it comes in a blue bottle too.
https://bit.ly/3hchl5N
Last edited:
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- Jun 5, 2021
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I found this info highly informative since I am "hunting" for API SJ oil too. Honestly, probably best to buy Amsoil Small Engine oil .... but there are other options! Intersting that from SJ to SL oils there was a significant drop in ZDDP, and then even more to SN oils which contain roughly half the ZDDP of a strong formulated SJ oil.
Driect Link: https://www.mytractorforum.com/threads/small-engines-emissions-high-zddp-oil-and-damage.269661/
ZDDP = Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate
The Z in ZDDP is zinc... the P is phosphorus. Phosphorus is the anti-wear additive engine guys care about, and it's what protects tappets and cam lobes in vintage flat tappet engines. ZDDP is a complex compound, we care about the amount of "P" in the oil, and we just get so much "Z" along with it. Talking about the amount of zinc in the oil is missing the point... it's the phosphorus that counts.
Certainly, high performance engines running radical cams and high-force valve springs aggrevate the problem, but any flat tappet cam design results in a lot of high-friction/ high-wear, and depends upon anti-wear additives in the oil for protection... ie, ZDDP. Modern engines have been engineered with better designs and better materials in order to survive with low ZDDP levels in the new SL, SM & SN high efficiency and "green" oils. Vintage engines are what they are, they didn't change by magic when the oil specification changed, they weren't built with he improved materials, and they depend upon higer ZDDP levels to keep wear under control.
> Use a high quality detergent oil classified "For Service SF, SG, SH, SJ" or higher.
Those are all old API ratings from the days of high ZDDP, and SJ is the pinnacle... the peak ZDDP spec. That statement is calling for the use of high ZDDP oils.
The phosphorus in ZDDP doesn't attack or destroy catalytic converters, or any other emissions equipment for that matter. However, phosphorus can be an impediment to current technology catalytic converters attaining their peak life expectancy. Zinc isn't an issue.
Through the years, the government has been incrementally increasing the mandated life/durability standard for emissions related equipment. Catalytic converters have been working with ZDDP oils for decades since the introduction of cat converters. But when the latest durability standard was released requiring manufacturers to warrant emissions components to 150,000 miles, it approached the point were cat converter failures were projected to be a expense for which the auto manufacturers didn't want to be on the hook. Current cat converter technology was/is such that most coverters would have no problem meeting the standard even with the high ZDDP oils of the day, but the small risk was there, and the manufacturers were not willing to be responsible.
Old warranties ran out well before the typical converter died, and companies rarely paid for a converter replacement. The new standard forced the emissions equipment warranty to be extended to the point that it was butting into the bottom end of the expected cat converter mortality range. The companies were faced with replacing the few converters that were maybe a little off spec, and died earlier than most... but NOT ALL cat converters en masse.
Deleting the ZDDP from motor oil extended the life expectancy just a little bit, but the companies elected to take whatever they could get to protect their warranty budgets, no matter how many vintage engines and owner wallets they damaged... and without publicly announcing the change in advance.
The auto industry lobbied with the API to radically reduce the amount of ZDDP allowed in motor oil, and at the same time engineered their new production engines to work with low ZDDP from that time forward... better metals, better heat treating, and roller tappets being the most common changes. That was great for them, but left the public, owners of existing and older cars, holding the bag.
They did all that in secret... without public knowledge. Engine damage due to low ZDDP didn't become a "known problem" until sometime after the API SL oils hit the market, and vintage engines began to experience cam and tappet failures at an alarming rate. The public outcry, and the aftermarket outcry (cam companies) was loud, auto and oil companies denied any wrong doing, but in the end, API SM quietly made provision for ZDDP levels to be increased again. But... only in select viscosities, and at the discretion of the oil companies. ie, you may, but it's not mandated.
ZDDP was allowed to go back up to as high as 1200ppm. That's still way down from where it was at SJ levels, but it's back up from the low SM levels that were around 800 ppm, so companies called the revised oils "Added ZDDP" or similar verbiage. It may be "Added" from the gutted SL 800 ppm oils, but it's still way down from the specified "SF, SG, SH, SJ" oils we should use. Ya can't trust marketing!! They'll sell you what they want you to buy, but not necessarily what you need.
In API SM and SN oils, there are 6 viscosities under SAE 40 that must (!!) have the mandated low ZDDP levels for "Green" oils... 800 ppm for SM, and 700 ppm for SN. 0W-20, 5W-20, 0W030, 5W-30, 10W-30 for SM, plus one more grade I don't recall at the moment for SN.
All other viscosities under SAE 40, and all viscosities SAE 40 and up, have the OPTION of increasing ZDDP as the individual oil companies sees fit, but to a maximum limit of 1200 ppm. They have the option, but it's not mandated. So some brands kept the ZDDP low across the board ("We're the Green company!"), others increased some select viscosity grades to differing degrees, or some brands within their product line but not all, some added a little ZDDP, and some went all the way to 1200 ppm. The problem is that nothing on the label tells you how much ZDDP is in the bottle you're holding... unless it also says, "Meets API SF, SG, SH, SJ. Those old API classifications pretty much indicate a high ZDDP oil.
Some performance minded oil companies have resorted to marketing beautique "Racing Oils" as a back-door way of putting high ZDDP oils in the hands of car guys ("NNWWSNM", or Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more - Monty Python). Real racing oils don't contain the street additives that allow oils to be used for extended drain intervals, and they should be changed every 3 months, or 500 miles, whichever comes first (I don't know how you relate that to tractor use).
The beautique "Racing Oils" have the high ZDDP levels of a real racing oil, but with a complete street additive package for long change intervals. Mobil 1 0W50 and 0W30 Racing Oils (1750 ppm), Valvoline VR1 Mineral Racing Oil and VR1 Synthetic Racing Oil (1400 ppm in both), Castrol GT Racing Oil (?? ppm), and all Redline Racing Oils ("minimum" of 2200 ppm) all contain full street additive packages... plus high ZDDP. Valvoline VR1 NLS (Not Street Legal) is a true racing oil without the street additives... use one of the others.
The beautique "Racing Oils" can't be API Certified since they exceed the mandated 1200 ppm limit for ZDDP. However, the lack of API Certification does not mean they are sub-standard oils. In fact, they're way better than the API allows, and just you is need for vintage, flat tappet cam engines.
The ZDDP restrictions do not apply to motorcycle oils, and they generally contain high ZDDP levels. One of my favorite old-school, high ZDDP motor oils was Mobil 1 20W50 Motor Oil (1600 ppm... higher than Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil). Good stuff! It's ZDDP level is too high to be API Certified as a motor oil, despite the fact that it's a better oil than the API's 1200 ppm limit allows for "Green" reasons... "Green" reasons that are designed to protect auto manufacturer's warranty budgets, but that do nothing to extend cat converter technology. Sorry, I got carried away...
The excellent Mobil 1 oil that can't be sold as an automotive oil has simply been re-branded to Mobil 1 20W-50 V-Twin Motorcycle Oil, and is still sold at retail. You just have to shop where the motorcycle guys shop... often in the same parts store, one aisle over. Or, go to a Harley dealer/ independent cycle shop. Also, other motorcycle oils that include "4T" in the name are for 4-cycle engines, and generally have significantly higher ZDDP levels than are in automotive oils.
ZDDP is important to vintage flat tappet cam engines, it does not kill catalytic converters like Tetra-Ethyl-Lead in gasoline did, lawn and garden tractors do not have catalytic converters to worry about, ZDDP is restricted in modern API SL, SM & SN oils, but it is still out there if you shop smart. Look for "Meets API Service SF, SG, SH, SJ", and/or do your research on the internet before you get to the store. Reading the labels at shelf won't tell you anything, so know what you want before you head for the store.
Driect Link: https://www.mytractorforum.com/threads/small-engines-emissions-high-zddp-oil-and-damage.269661/
ZDDP = Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate
The Z in ZDDP is zinc... the P is phosphorus. Phosphorus is the anti-wear additive engine guys care about, and it's what protects tappets and cam lobes in vintage flat tappet engines. ZDDP is a complex compound, we care about the amount of "P" in the oil, and we just get so much "Z" along with it. Talking about the amount of zinc in the oil is missing the point... it's the phosphorus that counts.
Certainly, high performance engines running radical cams and high-force valve springs aggrevate the problem, but any flat tappet cam design results in a lot of high-friction/ high-wear, and depends upon anti-wear additives in the oil for protection... ie, ZDDP. Modern engines have been engineered with better designs and better materials in order to survive with low ZDDP levels in the new SL, SM & SN high efficiency and "green" oils. Vintage engines are what they are, they didn't change by magic when the oil specification changed, they weren't built with he improved materials, and they depend upon higer ZDDP levels to keep wear under control.
> Use a high quality detergent oil classified "For Service SF, SG, SH, SJ" or higher.
Those are all old API ratings from the days of high ZDDP, and SJ is the pinnacle... the peak ZDDP spec. That statement is calling for the use of high ZDDP oils.
The phosphorus in ZDDP doesn't attack or destroy catalytic converters, or any other emissions equipment for that matter. However, phosphorus can be an impediment to current technology catalytic converters attaining their peak life expectancy. Zinc isn't an issue.
Through the years, the government has been incrementally increasing the mandated life/durability standard for emissions related equipment. Catalytic converters have been working with ZDDP oils for decades since the introduction of cat converters. But when the latest durability standard was released requiring manufacturers to warrant emissions components to 150,000 miles, it approached the point were cat converter failures were projected to be a expense for which the auto manufacturers didn't want to be on the hook. Current cat converter technology was/is such that most coverters would have no problem meeting the standard even with the high ZDDP oils of the day, but the small risk was there, and the manufacturers were not willing to be responsible.
Old warranties ran out well before the typical converter died, and companies rarely paid for a converter replacement. The new standard forced the emissions equipment warranty to be extended to the point that it was butting into the bottom end of the expected cat converter mortality range. The companies were faced with replacing the few converters that were maybe a little off spec, and died earlier than most... but NOT ALL cat converters en masse.
Deleting the ZDDP from motor oil extended the life expectancy just a little bit, but the companies elected to take whatever they could get to protect their warranty budgets, no matter how many vintage engines and owner wallets they damaged... and without publicly announcing the change in advance.
The auto industry lobbied with the API to radically reduce the amount of ZDDP allowed in motor oil, and at the same time engineered their new production engines to work with low ZDDP from that time forward... better metals, better heat treating, and roller tappets being the most common changes. That was great for them, but left the public, owners of existing and older cars, holding the bag.
They did all that in secret... without public knowledge. Engine damage due to low ZDDP didn't become a "known problem" until sometime after the API SL oils hit the market, and vintage engines began to experience cam and tappet failures at an alarming rate. The public outcry, and the aftermarket outcry (cam companies) was loud, auto and oil companies denied any wrong doing, but in the end, API SM quietly made provision for ZDDP levels to be increased again. But... only in select viscosities, and at the discretion of the oil companies. ie, you may, but it's not mandated.
ZDDP was allowed to go back up to as high as 1200ppm. That's still way down from where it was at SJ levels, but it's back up from the low SM levels that were around 800 ppm, so companies called the revised oils "Added ZDDP" or similar verbiage. It may be "Added" from the gutted SL 800 ppm oils, but it's still way down from the specified "SF, SG, SH, SJ" oils we should use. Ya can't trust marketing!! They'll sell you what they want you to buy, but not necessarily what you need.
In API SM and SN oils, there are 6 viscosities under SAE 40 that must (!!) have the mandated low ZDDP levels for "Green" oils... 800 ppm for SM, and 700 ppm for SN. 0W-20, 5W-20, 0W030, 5W-30, 10W-30 for SM, plus one more grade I don't recall at the moment for SN.
All other viscosities under SAE 40, and all viscosities SAE 40 and up, have the OPTION of increasing ZDDP as the individual oil companies sees fit, but to a maximum limit of 1200 ppm. They have the option, but it's not mandated. So some brands kept the ZDDP low across the board ("We're the Green company!"), others increased some select viscosity grades to differing degrees, or some brands within their product line but not all, some added a little ZDDP, and some went all the way to 1200 ppm. The problem is that nothing on the label tells you how much ZDDP is in the bottle you're holding... unless it also says, "Meets API SF, SG, SH, SJ. Those old API classifications pretty much indicate a high ZDDP oil.
Some performance minded oil companies have resorted to marketing beautique "Racing Oils" as a back-door way of putting high ZDDP oils in the hands of car guys ("NNWWSNM", or Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more - Monty Python). Real racing oils don't contain the street additives that allow oils to be used for extended drain intervals, and they should be changed every 3 months, or 500 miles, whichever comes first (I don't know how you relate that to tractor use).
The beautique "Racing Oils" have the high ZDDP levels of a real racing oil, but with a complete street additive package for long change intervals. Mobil 1 0W50 and 0W30 Racing Oils (1750 ppm), Valvoline VR1 Mineral Racing Oil and VR1 Synthetic Racing Oil (1400 ppm in both), Castrol GT Racing Oil (?? ppm), and all Redline Racing Oils ("minimum" of 2200 ppm) all contain full street additive packages... plus high ZDDP. Valvoline VR1 NLS (Not Street Legal) is a true racing oil without the street additives... use one of the others.
The beautique "Racing Oils" can't be API Certified since they exceed the mandated 1200 ppm limit for ZDDP. However, the lack of API Certification does not mean they are sub-standard oils. In fact, they're way better than the API allows, and just you is need for vintage, flat tappet cam engines.
The ZDDP restrictions do not apply to motorcycle oils, and they generally contain high ZDDP levels. One of my favorite old-school, high ZDDP motor oils was Mobil 1 20W50 Motor Oil (1600 ppm... higher than Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil). Good stuff! It's ZDDP level is too high to be API Certified as a motor oil, despite the fact that it's a better oil than the API's 1200 ppm limit allows for "Green" reasons... "Green" reasons that are designed to protect auto manufacturer's warranty budgets, but that do nothing to extend cat converter technology. Sorry, I got carried away...
The excellent Mobil 1 oil that can't be sold as an automotive oil has simply been re-branded to Mobil 1 20W-50 V-Twin Motorcycle Oil, and is still sold at retail. You just have to shop where the motorcycle guys shop... often in the same parts store, one aisle over. Or, go to a Harley dealer/ independent cycle shop. Also, other motorcycle oils that include "4T" in the name are for 4-cycle engines, and generally have significantly higher ZDDP levels than are in automotive oils.
ZDDP is important to vintage flat tappet cam engines, it does not kill catalytic converters like Tetra-Ethyl-Lead in gasoline did, lawn and garden tractors do not have catalytic converters to worry about, ZDDP is restricted in modern API SL, SM & SN oils, but it is still out there if you shop smart. Look for "Meets API Service SF, SG, SH, SJ", and/or do your research on the internet before you get to the store. Reading the labels at shelf won't tell you anything, so know what you want before you head for the store.
It's 20W50, but now Walmart carries Castrol for classic cars that's supposed to have in excess of 1200ppm of phosphorous.
