Small vs larger oil filters?

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted by 2009Edge
Why do vehicle mfgrs put really small oil filters on engines when there is adequate room for a larger filter?



Per our GM approved aftermarket upfitter who has a factory rep on staff: The reason the smaller filters are used is that the modern engine simply doesn't need a large one. The oil pressure is controlled in many designs now and the engine life is ridiculous if you simply care for the engine exactly as per the OLM. Our last engine failure occurred well past 200k miles. One of our service vans had half a million miles on the engine and was sold with no smoking, leaking, or any usage of oil.


A larger filter is a "feel good" mod with no proven benefit and some small risks...

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by SteveSRT8
Originally Posted by 2009Edge
Why do vehicle mfgrs put really small oil filters on engines when there is adequate room for a larger filter?



Per our GM approved aftermarket upfitter who has a factory rep on staff: The reason the smaller filters are used is that the modern engine simply doesn't need a large one. The oil pressure is controlled in many designs now and the engine life is ridiculous if you simply care for the engine exactly as per the OLM. Our last engine failure occurred well past 200k miles. One of our service vans had half a million miles on the engine and was sold with no smoking, leaking, or any usage of oil.


A larger filter is a "feel good" mod with no proven benefit and some small risks...


Just because an engine ran fine to 500k miles doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. I still feel that a larger filter area will decrease psid for given viscosity and flow volume and thus less time with the bypass open and more time actually filtering.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
I still feel that a larger filter area will decrease psid for given viscosity and flow volume and thus less time with the bypass open and more time actually filtering.


Exactly, and why I over size when I can.

 

[littlehulkster]

I just run whatever the manufacturer recommends. They could spec any filter in the world, but they choose the one they do for a reason. My Mazda has a very small filter, for example, but they've used that filter size for years and it's also specced for a bunch of other engines, most of which are very reliable, and which run the gamut from basic economy car engines to pickups all the way to high performance sports cars.

So it's pretty clear to me that the filter works just fine. After all, none of these companies want their engines to explode any more than you do.

 

[SuzukiLover]

Why do vehicle mfgrs put really small oil filters on engines when there is adequate room for a larger filter?

Hello all. Thanks for accepting me. First time posting and I'm resurrecting this thread as I believe the OP's question was not entirely answered.

According to my mechanic, small filters are better because they fill up faster after an oil change (or engine rebuild) therefore reaching critical components in less time.

 

[ZeeOSix]

A second or two difference in providing oil flow and pressure to the engine after an oil change won't matter.

 

[GumbyJarvis]

Because they look cute.

 

[GumbyJarvis]

The filter on our V8 Tundra is pretty small; I believe it is the same as used for the smaller 6 and 4 bangers as well.
Thr Toyota TRD filter is larger. I think I used the M1-301 (PH8 is similiar) which allowed for a full 7 quart service.

Same boat with the Titan XD, ive seen bigger filters on lawn equipment.

 

[blupupher]

Hello all. Thanks for accepting me. First time posting and I'm resurrecting this thread as I believe the OP's question was not entirely answered.

According to my mechanic, small filters are better because they fill up faster after an oil change (or engine rebuild) therefore reaching critical components in less time.

Pre fill the filter then if you are worried about that.
Plus the difference in actual oil volume is not enough to really make a difference.
A common interchange is on Honda vehicles, you can fit a 6607, 7317, 3593a and 9688 (Fram numbering just because it is what I know off hand). The 6607 is about 1/2 the size of the 3593a/9688, yet the time for the oil pump to fill each if them would be less than 1/2 a second difference.

Even something like a 4386 vs a PH8a (both would fit on my Scion) that is almost 3x the size would not have a significant time difference before the engine parts receive lubrication.

 

[Eddie]

Bigger is better mindset is not true in case of filters. Remember that filters become more efficient with use, up to a point, and that point is researched by filter engineers. Ed

 

[Brons2]

Pre fill the filter then if you are worried about that.
Plus the difference in actual oil volume is not enough to really make a difference.
A common interchange is on Honda vehicles, you can fit a 6607, 7317, 3593a and 9688 (Fram numbering just because it is what I know off hand). The 6607 is about 1/2 the size of the 3593a/9688, yet the time for the oil pump to fill each if them would be less than 1/2 a second difference.

Even something like a 4386 vs a PH8a (both would fit on my Scion) that is almost 3x the size would not have a significant time difference before the engine parts receive lubrication.

which of those Honda interchanges is the biggest? I put a ST6607 on my wife's car as per the kiosk recommendations, but Fram itself recommends the 7317, which an equivalent ST model exists for, and is larger. is the3593/9688 even bigger? the OEM Mitsubishi filter is around the size of the 7317.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Bigger is better mindset is not true in case of filters. Remember that filters become more efficient with use, up to a point, and that point is researched by filter engineers. Ed

No they don't. Read the last few pages of this thread (link below) where all filters tested lost efficiency right from the beginning as they loaded up. Some far worse than others. The montra of "oil filters all get more efficient with use" is a pretty big misconception.

Would you all like to see ISO 4548-12 Oil Filter Lab Testing Comparison, Efficiency & Capacity, Pressure vs Flow, Bubble Point, and Burst?

I am thinking about running lab tests for an OEM and four aftermarket filters for testing for a Chevy truck. This testing will include ISO 4548-12 multi-pass efficiency and capacity, pressure vs flow hot and cold simulation curves, bubble point/largest pore size, and a collapse/burst test. I...

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[Malo83]

I'll take the tall one please!

 

[blupupher]

which of those Honda interchanges is the biggest? I put a ST6607 on my wife's car as per the kiosk recommendations, but Fram itself recommends the 7317, which an equivalent ST model exists for, and is larger. is the3593/9688 even bigger? the OEM Mitsubishi filter is around the size of the 7317.

3593a and 9688 are almost identical sizes. They are fatter than a 7317, but the 7317 is a touch taller.
If I was any good at math, I could probably figure out the volume of each.

edit: OK, 6607 is 14.918 cubic inches, 7317 is 19.686, 9688 is 22.062, 3593a is 24.22.
This will not be the exact oil volume due to filter media, baseplate shape and such, but a general idea of volume.
It will also vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, Fram number sizes may not be exactly the same as ST sizes, but close enough.

does the extra ~10 cubic inches between the 6607 and the 3593a really make a difference, no idea.
But my "feel good" meter wants the bigger filter.

 

[Cuemark8]

Years ago Ibised to feel that bigger was better. Bigger filter, more filtration media and volume.
Now, I feel use what it is designed for.
Only negative I can see using a bigger filter is possibly a fraction of a sec longer to fill the filter with oil to build pressure to pump it back to the engine. Once it's filled and if the filter has anti drainback or s vertically mounted, this should not be a problem again.

With tighter and tighter, engine tolerances over the years, Oil is better quality. Engines are sealed tighter. Less blow by from pistons. Thinner engine oil stays in, dirt stays out.I'm surprised the oil filter hasn't gone away. Especially on these smaller engines. Smaller than many lawn tractor engines.
A small Briggs & Stratton or Honda single cylinder engine likely doesn't have oil filter. Change oil and spark plugs once year in a push mower and both with last for decades.

 

[NashNative]

No they don't. Read the last few pages of this thread (link below) where all filters tested lost efficiency right from the beginning as they loaded up. Some far worse than others. The montra of "oil filters all get more efficient with use" is a pretty big misconception.

Would you all like to see ISO 4548-12 Oil Filter Lab Testing Comparison, Efficiency & Capacity, Pressure vs Flow, Bubble Point, and Burst?

I am thinking about running lab tests for an OEM and four aftermarket filters for testing for a Chevy truck. This testing will include ISO 4548-12 multi-pass efficiency and capacity, pressure vs flow hot and cold simulation curves, bubble point/largest pore size, and a collapse/burst test. I...

bobistheoilguy.com

Well said. Liquid filters become less efficient over time, as a general rule of thumb. On the other hand, air filters do become more efficient over time...right up until the filter starts nearing terminal restriction. The advantage of using a larger filter is to increase contaminant holding capacity, which is beneficial for fuel filters, but probably not as big of a concern with oil filters.

 

[mpack88]

All my cars could use fl300s if I wanted to Or fl420s. The fl1a is to big for some but none to small

 

[DGXR]

My 4-cylinder Tacoma is spec'd for the Motorcraft FL910S, Wix 51348 or equivalent. The larger filters (Motorcraft FL400S or Wix 51516) cost less than the standard filters, and there's plenty of room in the engine bay for the oversize filters. Also this truck is spec'd for conventional oil at 5,000-mile intervals but I am running synthetic for 7,500 miles (5.5 quart capacity). I think an oversize filter is better when going beyond the recommended service interval.