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Re: The K-Car - One of the cars that helped save Chrysler [Re: CrAlt] #5077374
04/17/19 02:11 AM
04/17/19 02:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,731
In the Garage...
ls1mike Offline
ls1mike  Offline

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,731
In the Garage...
Originally Posted by CrAlt
Was the a604 the trans that made that very distinct fluttering sound when coming to a stop? It seems just about every FWD Chrysler from the 90s made that sound.

It was the sednoids that made that sound.


Mike
00 Trans Am WS6 5.7 LS1
02 Silverado 2500HD 6.0
14 Caprice PPV 6.0
15 Malibu LTZ Turbo
12 Passport TT
Re: The K-Car - One of the cars that helped save Chrysler [Re: StevieC] #5077549
04/17/19 08:17 AM
04/17/19 08:17 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,731
In the Garage...
ls1mike Offline
ls1mike  Offline

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,731
In the Garage...
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by Miller88
The neighbor across the street had an Omnirizon. It would stall no less than 10 times backing out of the driveway. People seem to love them, though. There's a few of them (somhow) still running around and they are a cult classic.

The K platform definitely saved Chrysler. I can still hear the horrific piston slap as an Aries or Caravan drives by in my memories.

That wasn't piston slap that you would hear. That's the chain for the oil pump that was always loose on them and would knock back and forth on these 2.2/2.5's.



Chain? The pump had a gear on top of it that ran off the lower shaft of the timing system. The distributor and oil pump ran off this shaft. The distributor had two pins that slid into the top of the pump.

It was in fact piston slap. All of these engines are known for it.

The balance shafts on the 2.5 had chains

Oil pump for 81 to 1995 2.2/2.5
[Linked Image]
The slot in the top was where the distributor slid down into. It was a really simple design easy to maintain.

[Linked Image]

The Cam sprocket and oil/pump distributor sprocket are the same size all driven by the crank pulley.
[Linked Image]

I could do a timing belt swap in 30 to 45 minutes. The beauty of it is the engine is non interference. The car will run with the timing REALLY far out but there will be no low end torque.

Last edited by ls1mike; 04/17/19 08:31 AM.

Mike
00 Trans Am WS6 5.7 LS1
02 Silverado 2500HD 6.0
14 Caprice PPV 6.0
15 Malibu LTZ Turbo
12 Passport TT
Re: The K-Car - One of the cars that helped save Chrysler [Re: StevieC] #5077626
04/17/19 09:40 AM
04/17/19 09:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,541
Buffalo, NY
JTK Offline
JTK  Offline

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11,541
Buffalo, NY
Originally Posted by StevieC

The problem with those transmissions was they weren't cooled properly. All the ones we rebuilt and put coolers on lasted just fine thereafter. It had to be a thermostatically controlled cooler though or else it would just go into partial lock-up instead of full lock-up and screw up the torque converter over time.


When did they start putting a torque converter lock on the 3spds?

I would imagine ATF temps would get scorching hot if the trans was kept under a lot of load for too long w/out TC lockup.


2017 Ram 1500 4x4, 3.6L. 2016 Nissan Quest SV (Babe magnet IV)
Re: The K-Car - One of the cars that helped save Chrysler [Re: JTK] #5077646
04/17/19 10:06 AM
04/17/19 10:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,731
In the Garage...
ls1mike Offline
ls1mike  Offline

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,731
In the Garage...
Originally Posted by JTK
Originally Posted by StevieC

The problem with those transmissions was they weren't cooled properly. All the ones we rebuilt and put coolers on lasted just fine thereafter. It had to be a thermostatically controlled cooler though or else it would just go into partial lock-up instead of full lock-up and screw up the torque converter over time.


When did they start putting a torque converter lock on the 3spds?

I would imagine ATF temps would get scorching hot if the trans was kept under a lot of load for too long w/out TC lockup.


1987 for the non-turbo cars, 1990 for the turbo cars.

I always added a cooler. Only problem I had was in older units the governor valve would get stuck and when you stopped you had to start out in third because it would not go back into first. The solution was to pull the valve body and lightly sand the piece that got stuck so it would slide in and out properly no issues after that. It wouldn't allow the fluid to flow normally to the needed ports as it valve didn't move.


Mike
00 Trans Am WS6 5.7 LS1
02 Silverado 2500HD 6.0
14 Caprice PPV 6.0
15 Malibu LTZ Turbo
12 Passport TT
Re: The K-Car - One of the cars that helped save Chrysler [Re: JTK] #5077678
04/17/19 10:46 AM
04/17/19 10:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25,014
ON, Canada eh?
StevieC Offline OP
StevieC  Offline OP

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25,014
ON, Canada eh?
Originally Posted by JTK
Originally Posted by StevieC

The problem with those transmissions was they weren't cooled properly. All the ones we rebuilt and put coolers on lasted just fine thereafter. It had to be a thermostatically controlled cooler though or else it would just go into partial lock-up instead of full lock-up and screw up the torque converter over time.


When did they start putting a torque converter lock on the 3spds?

I would imagine ATF temps would get scorching hot if the trans was kept under a lot of load for too long w/out TC lockup.

It was a 4 speed. I might have the wrong transmission in mind. Thought the one mentioned was the 4 speed.


'18 Caravan - 36k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w20, Fram Ultra, TC-W3 500:1
'06 Santa Fe - 535k KM (Retired)

There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluids! mad
Re: The K-Car - One of the cars that helped save Chrysler [Re: ls1mike] #5077679
04/17/19 10:47 AM
04/17/19 10:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25,014
ON, Canada eh?
StevieC Offline OP
StevieC  Offline OP

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25,014
ON, Canada eh?
Originally Posted by ls1mike
Originally Posted by StevieC
Originally Posted by Miller88
The neighbor across the street had an Omnirizon. It would stall no less than 10 times backing out of the driveway. People seem to love them, though. There's a few of them (somhow) still running around and they are a cult classic.

The K platform definitely saved Chrysler. I can still hear the horrific piston slap as an Aries or Caravan drives by in my memories.

That wasn't piston slap that you would hear. That's the chain for the oil pump that was always loose on them and would knock back and forth on these 2.2/2.5's.



Chain? The pump had a gear on top of it that ran off the lower shaft of the timing system. The distributor and oil pump ran off this shaft. The distributor had two pins that slid into the top of the pump.

It was in fact piston slap. All of these engines are known for it.

The balance shafts on the 2.5 had chains

Oil pump for 81 to 1995 2.2/2.5
[Linked Image]
The slot in the top was where the distributor slid down into. It was a really simple design easy to maintain.

[Linked Image]

The Cam sprocket and oil/pump distributor sprocket are the same size all driven by the crank pulley.
[Linked Image]

I could do a timing belt swap in 30 to 45 minutes. The beauty of it is the engine is non interference. The car will run with the timing REALLY far out but there will be no low end torque.

Could have sworn it was the chain in the lower end making the noise when I was told about it. I stand corrected. (I know the engine is timing belt but there was a short chain in the bottom end I thought)

Last edited by StevieC; 04/17/19 10:48 AM.

'18 Caravan - 36k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w20, Fram Ultra, TC-W3 500:1
'06 Santa Fe - 535k KM (Retired)

There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluids! mad
Re: The K-Car - One of the cars that helped save Chrysler [Re: StevieC] #5077682
04/17/19 10:54 AM
04/17/19 10:54 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25,014
ON, Canada eh?
StevieC Offline OP
StevieC  Offline OP

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25,014
ON, Canada eh?
I just looked it up... It was the Balance shaft chain. I knew there was a chain and they were always loose when we would take the engines apart. I still stand by that it's the chain making the noise and not the piston slapping. But hey it was 20 years ago I saw the last of these so maybe I'm remembering it wrong....

[Linked Image]

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...,1069398,engine,balance+shaft+chain,5188

Last edited by StevieC; 04/17/19 10:54 AM.

'18 Caravan - 36k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w20, Fram Ultra, TC-W3 500:1
'06 Santa Fe - 535k KM (Retired)

There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluids! mad
Re: The K-Car - One of the cars that helped save Chrysler [Re: StevieC] #5077685
04/17/19 10:58 AM
04/17/19 10:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,452
Upper Midwest
kschachn Offline
kschachn  Offline

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 11,452
Upper Midwest
My 1979 Horizon had the original 1.7L Volkswagen engine, was that design similar to the later one?


1994 BMW 530i, 242K
1996 Honda Accord, 277K
1999 Toyota Sienna, 413K
2000 Toyota ECHO, 281K
Re: The K-Car - One of the cars that helped save Chrysler [Re: PimTac] #5077714
04/17/19 11:32 AM
04/17/19 11:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,087
Da Swamp
Benzadmiral Offline
Benzadmiral  Offline

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 5,087
Da Swamp
Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by john_pifer
Guess I shouldn’t be surprised that there are some BITOG members who are gushing over one of the worst cars ever made!



Those cars didn’t sell themselves, it was Lee Iacocca who was a master salesman. The streets were filled with these Lean Burn cars that pinged everywhere they went.

IN the '80s somebody, I forget who, coined the phrase "Buy a Chrysler, win a date with Lee Iacocca"!


* *
-- Paul W. (The Benzadmiral)
('15 BMW 328i, gold/cream, 2.0L turbo)
http://benzadmiral-uncle.blogspot.com/
Re: The K-Car - One of the cars that helped save Chrysler [Re: StevieC] #5077720
04/17/19 11:35 AM
04/17/19 11:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,731
In the Garage...
ls1mike Offline
ls1mike  Offline

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,731
In the Garage...
Originally Posted by StevieC
I just looked it up... It was the Balance shaft chain. I knew there was a chain and they were always loose when we would take the engines apart. I still stand by that it's the chain making the noise and not the piston slapping. But hey it was 20 years ago I saw the last of these so maybe I'm remembering it wrong....

[Linked Image]

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...,1069398,engine,balance+shaft+chain,5188

Yep balance shafts but that was only the 2.5 cars. No 2.2 ever had them and they were quiet. Piston slap was horrible on those. The whole point of the balance shafts was to keep them quiet and help smooth idle.
I had 2.5 turbo swap in one of the Daytonas. I removed the balance shafts. Most guys who hot rodded them removed them. We didn't care about quiet or smooth idle.
Last 2.5 turbo I had was I sold in 2012 it a was loud 13.50 1/4 mile Lebaron.


Mike
00 Trans Am WS6 5.7 LS1
02 Silverado 2500HD 6.0
14 Caprice PPV 6.0
15 Malibu LTZ Turbo
12 Passport TT
Re: The K-Car - One of the cars that helped save Chrysler [Re: StevieC] #5077727
04/17/19 11:45 AM
04/17/19 11:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25,014
ON, Canada eh?
StevieC Offline OP
StevieC  Offline OP

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 25,014
ON, Canada eh?
Mike yeah it was 20 years ago... And we did far more 2.5 work than the 2.2 unless it was the 2.2 Turbo then it was usually heads/gaskets and turbo's... Bottom ends seemed fine on those.

Last edited by StevieC; 04/17/19 11:45 AM.

'18 Caravan - 36k KM - AMSOIL SS 0w20, Fram Ultra, TC-W3 500:1
'06 Santa Fe - 535k KM (Retired)

There is no such thing as "lifetime" fluids! mad
Re: The K-Car - One of the cars that helped save Chrysler [Re: StevieC] #5077876
04/17/19 02:27 PM
04/17/19 02:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,777
Canada
addyguy Offline
addyguy  Offline

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 14,777
Canada
Folks bought a baby-blue 1985 Reliant 4-door sedan used in 1991. It was 'one of' the cars I learned to drive on; and then was the car I passed my drivers test on.

For about the next 6 months, until I got my own car, I drove it almost every day. Besides having issues with starting in the extreme cold, and having a small hole in the floor on the drivers seat, it was a great car. Lots of room, very comfortable bench seat, fairly peppy...I had no real issues with it.

I bought a 1985 Buick Skyhawk as my first car, bc it wasn't 'cool' to drive your folks hand-me-downs...but I knew they were trading it in soon. I SHOULD have bought it for the $500 or so they got for it, fixed the floor, given it a good tune-up, and driven it for a few years.

My first big automotive regret...that Skyhawk cost me a fortune to keep on the road for the next two years. that Reliant wouldn't have, I'm sure of it.


2010 Kia Soul 2U - 2.0L I-4, auto; 143k miles.
Castrol GTX HM 5W-30, STP blue bottle; Fram TG 9688.

2009 Pontiac G5 - 2.2 I-4, auto, 121k miles.
Oil/filter TBD
Re: The K-Car - One of the cars that helped save Chrysler [Re: StevieC] #5078026
04/17/19 05:36 PM
04/17/19 05:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,748
Flaherty, KY
92saturnsl2 Offline
92saturnsl2  Offline

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,748
Flaherty, KY
My folks drove K cars for most of my childhood. First one I remember was a 1983 Dodge Aries. I remember it leaking oil like a sieve and my dad always having my mom run to the store to buy oil. One time she came back with a quart of Quaker State, my dad was madder than a hornet-- Not sure why he got so mad, I guess QS had a bad reputation in the early 90's?

They got rid of that car and bought a 1987 Plymouth Reliant for like $6k IIRC, it was fairly new only 2-3 years old. They drove that car many years, perhaps to about 120k miles and they got rid of it when it started having transmission problems.

My brother in law had a 1989 Dodge Daytona w/ the 2.5L that I used to drive around on occasion when I was in high school. I really liked that car. I ended up trashing the engine by downshifting into 2nd gear while going too fast.. I remember the RPMs going up a bit past redline (7000 rpm or so); pretty sure it spun a rod bearing. He drove it around for a couple months with a rod knock and nearly 0 oil pressure before one day it decided to spit a rod out of the side of the block.

Only other K car I remember driving was a early 90's Dodge Shadow convertible w/ 2.2L. This was in the early 00's and the thing was a rust bucket, but still fun to drive. I have fond memories of K cars!


1985 F-250HD 7.5L 4x4 135k- Castrol GTX 15w-40
04 Odyssey EX 190k Valv. Durablend 5w-30
96 Maxima GLE 265k Chevron Delo LE 5w-40
07 Chrysler Pacifica Limited 4.0L 140k Belgian Castrol Edge 0w-30 Euro
Re: The K-Car - One of the cars that helped save Chrysler [Re: StevieC] #5078032
04/17/19 05:45 PM
04/17/19 05:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 941
Ontario Canada
caprice_2nv Online content
caprice_2nv  Online Content

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 941
Ontario Canada
My memories of the k car are sitting in the back seat as a kid when the car wouldn't start or died on the side of the road...happened a lot. It was an 84 with the lean burn carburetor. They also had a hand me down 77 Toyota Corolla. It was not reliable either, only had it for about 2 years before the springs came through the rusted trunk but the alternator died a couple times and it would die or fail to start from time to time.

It was replaced by a 79 impala that never really left us anywhere stranded in 6 years. Bought for $800 safeties when it was 14 years old.


84 Olds Cutlass - 350 Olds
83 Chevy Caprice - 305 Sbc
79 Honda CX500
Re: The K-Car - One of the cars that helped save Chrysler [Re: StevieC] #5078122
04/17/19 07:28 PM
04/17/19 07:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,908
Texas
GMBoy Offline
GMBoy  Offline

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,908
Texas
I enjoyed that video...actually I would love to have a luxurious Imperial or New Yorker turbo if I could find one. With so many K cars made, I cannot remember the last time I saw one.

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