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2016 WRX, 6k intervals, 60k worth of intervals: M1 ESP 5w30, RT6 MV 5w30 #5078056
04/17/19 06:21 PM
04/17/19 06:21 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 25
Denver, CO
WRX12tt Offline OP
WRX12tt  Offline OP

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 25
Denver, CO
I haven't gotten around to posting these individually, but here are 60,000 miles worth of UOAs on my 2016 WRX. Here are some key points:
-A couple of the samples were sent to both Blackstone (BSL) and Oil Analyzers Inc (OAI) for analysis.
-Subaru OEM oil filter on each interval
-Ran the factory fill for 6k mi, then ran Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 from 6k to 42k mi. Then I ran Rotella T6 Multi-Vehicle 5w30 from 42k to 60k mi.
-Car is bone stock engine-wise. Stock tune, factory air filter, etc.
-Commute is roughly 25 miles each day with some highway, some stop and go traffic. Generally pretty easy driving, not going into boost much.
-Roughly 20,000 mi per year on the car which is about 3 oil changes per year (OEM recommended interval is 6,000 miles)
-Road trips are taken a couple times a year in this car.
-Cold start idling in the morning is usually less than 30 seconds.
-Colorado climate, so it sees hot and cold temperatures.
-Every oil change interval (except factory fill) has at least a couple autocross events on it; usually do about 10 events per year with a co-driver.
-Air filter is changed at OEM recommended interval (30,000 mi)
-I believe the factory fill is Idemitsu 5w30, but I'm not 100% sure.
-Subaru specifies GF-5 or API SN 5w30 in the owner's manual. I wanted a more robust oil than a GF-5 oil, but I wanted to use a "5w30" API SN (although not RC) oil so I used the M1 ESP. When RT6 MV 5w30 was released, I went with that since it's cheaper. At 60k mi, I switched to Castrol 0w40 since the powertrain warranty is up. The Subaru UK owner's manual for the FA20DIT Levorg specifies 5w40 as an oil option in addition to 5w30 (I believe), so I went with it here.

Pretty happy with the car so far. There was a strange copper spike on the 42k sample. I'm not an expert at analyzing these UOAs, but I'm happy with the viscosity considering fuel dilution and potential shearing and I'm happy with the wear metals. Excited to see how the 0w40 compares. I was debating M1 0w40 vs Castrol, and I went with the Castrol with its lower calcium. However, the M1 0w40 is closer in viscosity to the 5w30s I've been running.
Code
Lab                    	OAI          	BSL         	OAI         	BSL         	BSL         	OAI         	OAI         	OAI         	OAI         	BSL                      	OAI                      	BSL                      	OAI                      
Oil Brand              	Idemitsu     	Mobil 1     	Mobil 1     	Mobil 1     	Mobil 1     	Mobil 1     	Mobil 1     	Mobil 1     	Mobil 1     	Shell                    	Shell                    	Shell                    	Shell                    
Oil Model              	Factory Fill 	ESP Formula 	ESP Formula 	ESP Formula 	ESP Formula 	ESP Formula 	ESP Formula 	ESP Formula 	ESP Formula 	Rotella T6 Multi Vehicle 	Rotella T6 Multi Vehicle 	Rotella T6 Multi Vehicle 	Rotella T6 Multi Vehicle 
Oil Grade              	5w30         	5w30        	5w30        	5w30        	5w30        	5w30        	5w30        	5w30        	5w30        	5w30                     	5w30                     	5w30                     	5w30                     
Sample Date            	03/05/2016   	06/13/2016  	06/13/2016  	09/09/2016  	01/29/2017  	01/29/2017  	04/23/2017  	08/18/2017  	01/26/2018  	06/08/2018               	06/08/2018               	09/12/2018               	03/09/2019               
Drain Interval         	5,918         	6,255        	6,255        	5,770        	6,004        	6,004        	6,080        	5,824        	6,062        	6,231                     	6,230                     	5,977                     	6,492                     
Unit Mileage           	5,918         	12,173       	12,173       	17,943       	23,947       	23,947       	30,027       	35,851       	41,913       	48,144                    	48,144                    	54,121                    	60,614                    
                       	             	            	            	            	            	            	            	            	            	                         	                         	                         	                         
Aluminum               	5            	6           	5           	5           	5           	3           	3           	3           	4           	5                        	4                        	4                        	3                        
Antimony               	0            	-            	0           	-            	-            	0           	0           	0           	0           	-                         	1                        	-                         	0                        
Barium                 	5            	2           	1           	0           	0           	0           	0           	0           	0           	0                        	0                        	0                        	0                        
Boron                  	175          	138         	143         	148         	148         	136         	191         	130         	156         	108                      	112                      	85                       	98                       
Cadmium                	0            	-            	0           	-            	-            	0           	0           	0           	0           	-                         	0                        	-                         	0                        
Calcium                	1830         	1123        	1159        	1102        	1102        	1044        	1306        	1003        	1090        	1105                     	1192                     	1177                     	1401                     
Chromium               	1            	1           	0           	0           	0           	0           	0           	0           	0           	0                        	0                        	0                        	0                        
Copper                 	128          	66          	71          	19          	6           	5           	3           	1           	21          	7                        	7                        	2                        	8                        
Iron                   	36           	29          	29          	19          	17          	15          	17          	15          	26          	15                       	15                       	10                       	16                       
Lead                   	0            	0           	0           	0           	1           	0           	0           	0           	1           	0                        	0                        	0                        	0                        
Lithium                	0            	-            	0           	-            	-            	0           	0           	0           	0           	-                         	0                        	-                         	0                        
Magnesium              	11           	6           	0           	9           	9           	2           	8           	5           	9           	562                      	623                      	700                      	614                      
Manganese              	19           	4           	3           	1           	1           	0           	0           	0           	2           	1                        	1                        	1                        	0                        
Molybdenum             	680          	160         	166         	95          	92          	83          	104         	84          	90          	17                       	18                       	5                        	2                        
Nickel                 	1            	0           	1           	0           	0           	0           	0           	0           	0           	0                        	0                        	0                        	0                        
Phosphorus             	672          	630         	653         	723         	723         	703         	824         	639         	702         	661                      	700                      	674                      	717                      
Potassium              	1            	0           	3           	3           	3           	2           	3           	2           	2           	2                        	0                        	2                        	1                        
Silicon                	263          	62          	60          	21          	21          	19          	24          	19          	20          	25                       	26                       	22                       	18                       
Silver                 	0            	0           	0           	0           	0           	0           	0           	0           	0           	0                        	0                        	0                        	0                        
Sodium                 	7            	4           	3           	4           	4           	2           	3           	1           	1           	6                        	4                        	6                        	4                        
Tin                    	2            	4           	0           	0           	0           	0           	0           	0           	0           	0                        	0                        	0                        	0                        
Titanium               	0            	0           	0           	0           	0           	0           	0           	0           	0           	1                        	0                        	1                        	0                        
Vanadium               	0            	-            	0           	-            	-            	0           	0           	0           	0           	-                         	0                        	-                         	0                        
Zinc                   	766          	791         	791         	841         	841         	821         	974         	808         	880         	736                      	782                      	769                      	855                      
                       	             	            	            	            	            	            	            	            	            	                         	                         	                         	                         
cSt Vicosity at 100 C  	7.8          	10.89       	11          	11.14       	11.03       	11          	10.9        	11.3        	11.2        	11.78                    	12                       	11.38                    	12.3                     
Flahspoint in F        	-             	410         	-            	440         	445         	-            	-            	-            	-            	430                      	-                         	405                      	-                         
Fuel dilution (GC)     	0.027        	-            	-            	-            	-            	-            	-            	-            	0.015       	-                         	0.015                    	-                         	0.02                     
Soot                   	0            	-            	0           	-            	-            	0           	0           	0           	0.001       	-                         	0                        	-                         	0                        
Water                  	0            	-            	0           	-            	-            	0           	0           	0           	0           	-                         	0                        	-                         	0                        
Insolubles             	-             	0.2         	-            	0           	0.1         	-            	-            	-            	-            	0.2                      	-                         	0.1                      	-                         
TBN                    	3.88         	2.1         	2.61        	3.1         	1.8         	2.74        	2.66        	1.74        	1.75        	2.4                      	3.2                      	4                        	2.27                     
TAN                    	-             	3.3         	-            	3.3         	3.6         	-            	-            	-            	-            	4                        	-                         	3.7                      	-                         
Oxidation (abs/cm)     	18           	-            	31          	-            	-            	34          	30          	33          	33          	-                         	20                       	-                         	16                       
Nitration (abs/0.1 mm) 	10           	-            	9           	-            	-            	10          	9           	9           	9           	-                         	11                       	-                         	11                       



Last edited by WRX12tt; 04/17/19 06:23 PM.
Re: 2016 WRX, 6k intervals, 60k worth of intervals: M1 ESP 5w30, RT6 MV 5w30 [Re: WRX12tt] #5078076
04/17/19 06:45 PM
04/17/19 06:45 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,800
The land of USA-made Subies!
SubieRubyRoo Offline
SubieRubyRoo  Offline

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,800
The land of USA-made Subies!
Good to go! Thanks for compiling all of that.

Re: 2016 WRX, 6k intervals, 60k worth of intervals: M1 ESP 5w30, RT6 MV 5w30 [Re: WRX12tt] #5078111
04/17/19 07:21 PM
04/17/19 07:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 130
Canada
jbutch Offline
jbutch  Offline

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 130
Canada
This very good information, thanks for posting.

When I was looking for some UOAs for Rotella's multi vehicle, I came across some of your posts on nasioc and is one of the reasons I went with Rotella for my current fill.

Seems like Rotella gives very similar results as Mobil 1 ESP at a lower cost.


2015 Forester XT @ 84000km
Current fill: Shell Rotella Multi Vehicle 5w-30 with a Wix 57055
Re: 2016 WRX, 6k intervals, 60k worth of intervals: M1 ESP 5w30, RT6 MV 5w30 [Re: WRX12tt] #5078131
04/17/19 07:33 PM
04/17/19 07:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,608
pa
benjy Offline
benjy  Offline

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,608
pa
many of todays oils of similar viscosity are very similar except the prices. with big names you pay for advertising + sponsorships. i am now using super-tech synthetics that perform just as well as a lower cost without rebates.

Re: 2016 WRX, 6k intervals, 60k worth of intervals: M1 ESP 5w30, RT6 MV 5w30 [Re: WRX12tt] #5078150
04/17/19 07:54 PM
04/17/19 07:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 15
New England
normal_guy1 Offline
normal_guy1  Offline

Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 15
New England
I’ve had that weird copper spike too, although at 27k miles. I’ve read that it is quite common, but nobody knows why...for what it’s worth, it seems harmless.

Here’s my data:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5035185/


2016 Subaru WRX
Oil: Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W30
Filter: Tokyo Roki 15208AA170
Re: 2016 WRX, 6k intervals, 60k worth of intervals: M1 ESP 5w30, RT6 MV 5w30 [Re: normal_guy1] #5078822
04/18/19 01:04 PM
04/18/19 01:04 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 25
Denver, CO
WRX12tt Offline OP
WRX12tt  Offline OP

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 25
Denver, CO
Originally Posted by jbutch
This very good information, thanks for posting.

When I was looking for some UOAs for Rotella's multi vehicle, I came across some of your posts on nasioc and is one of the reasons I went with Rotella for my current fill.

Seems like Rotella gives very similar results as Mobil 1 ESP at a lower cost.

The lower cost was a big bonus over the M1 ESP. I liked the way the car ran on the RT6 5w30 and M1 ESP. Engine seemed a bit peppier on those oils vs the 0w40. Might just be placebo, but the 0w40 has a KV100 which is about 11% higher according to the datasheets. The 5w30s seemed to hold up to autocross and track time well and they also have HTHS > 3.5. TBN was usually flagged at 6k on the 5w30s though.

Originally Posted by normal_guy1
I’ve had that weird copper spike too, although at 27k miles. I’ve read that it is quite common, but nobody knows why...for what it’s worth, it seems harmless.

Here’s my data:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5035185/

Your copper spiked quite a bit higher than mine. Glad to hear that it doesn't seem to be a huge concern. Your UOAs on GF-5 oil look good, any track time or extended spirited driving with some high oil temps?

Last edited by WRX12tt; 04/18/19 01:04 PM.
Re: 2016 WRX, 6k intervals, 60k worth of intervals: M1 ESP 5w30, RT6 MV 5w30 [Re: SubieRubyRoo] #5078886
04/18/19 02:00 PM
04/18/19 02:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,342
NJ
bluesubie Offline
bluesubie  Offline

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,342
NJ
Originally Posted by SubieRubyRoo
Good to go! Thanks for compiling all of that.

Ditto! cool


'04 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Castrol Edge 0W-40
Re: 2016 WRX, 6k intervals, 60k worth of intervals: M1 ESP 5w30, RT6 MV 5w30 [Re: WRX12tt] #5079013
04/18/19 03:56 PM
04/18/19 03:56 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 15
New England
normal_guy1 Offline
normal_guy1  Offline

Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 15
New England
Originally Posted by WRX12tt
Your copper spiked quite a bit higher than mine. Glad to hear that it doesn't seem to be a huge concern. Your UOAs on GF-5 oil look good, any track time or extended spirited driving with some high oil temps?

No track time or autoX. The only "extended spirited driving" I've done was at around 30k miles when I drove it for one hour in 3rd gear at 70-75mph (5-5.5k RPMs)
to perform an "Italian Tune-Up" <because I was too cheap to do walnut blasting>. Oil temperature was in the low-220s.
crackmeup ...Probably wasn't worth it.

Regarding good looking UOAs, bluesubie mentioned once upon a time, that despite his Turbo Forester UOA results looking good, it didn't prevent his turbo from failing anyway; so there are issues that could develop and be outside the scope of what a UOA can tell you. Besides, the price of a UOA costs as much as an oil change itself so I'll probably only be doing them every other oil change now.


2016 Subaru WRX
Oil: Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W30
Filter: Tokyo Roki 15208AA170
Re: 2016 WRX, 6k intervals, 60k worth of intervals: M1 ESP 5w30, RT6 MV 5w30 [Re: WRX12tt] #5079097
04/18/19 05:18 PM
04/18/19 05:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 130
Canada
jbutch Offline
jbutch  Offline

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 130
Canada
I also had quite the copper spike when I used Pennzoil Platinum : https://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=491999&d=1532772811

It went back to normal when I used QSUD.


2015 Forester XT @ 84000km
Current fill: Shell Rotella Multi Vehicle 5w-30 with a Wix 57055
Re: 2016 WRX, 6k intervals, 60k worth of intervals: M1 ESP 5w30, RT6 MV 5w30 [Re: normal_guy1] #5079636
04/19/19 08:51 AM
04/19/19 08:51 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,763
Oakville, Ontario
Patman Offline
Global Moderator
Patman  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,763
Oakville, Ontario
Originally Posted by normal_guy1

No track time or autoX. The only "extended spirited driving" I've done was at around 30k miles when I drove it for one hour in 3rd gear at 70-75mph (5-5.5k RPMs)
to perform an "Italian Tune-Up" <because I was too cheap to do walnut blasting>. Oil temperature was in the low-220s.
crackmeup ...Probably wasn't worth it.



FWIW, driving a direct injected car very hard like that will not clean the intake valves, nor will it keep intake valves clean if you drove like that since day one on a direct injected engine. If you have deposits on your intake valves the only real way to fully clean it is walnut blasting.


2018 Corvette, 11k, M1 ESP Formula 5w30 & NAPA Gold
2006 Civic EX Coupe, 150k, PUP 5w20 & Fram Ultra
2010 BMW 328i X-Drive,114k, GC 0w40 & Fram Ultra

Re: 2016 WRX, 6k intervals, 60k worth of intervals: M1 ESP 5w30, RT6 MV 5w30 [Re: Patman] #5079702
04/19/19 09:57 AM
04/19/19 09:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 206
Denver, CO
Env1ous Online content
Env1ous  Online Content

Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 206
Denver, CO
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by normal_guy1

No track time or autoX. The only "extended spirited driving" I've done was at around 30k miles when I drove it for one hour in 3rd gear at 70-75mph (5-5.5k RPMs)
to perform an "Italian Tune-Up" <because I was too cheap to do walnut blasting>. Oil temperature was in the low-220s.
crackmeup ...Probably wasn't worth it.



FWIW, driving a direct injected car very hard like that will not clean the intake valves, nor will it keep intake valves clean if you drove like that since day one on a direct injected engine. If you have deposits on your intake valves the only real way to fully clean it is walnut blasting.


It has to help a little? Just from heat and the trauma the valves are taking? lol

Re: 2016 WRX, 6k intervals, 60k worth of intervals: M1 ESP 5w30, RT6 MV 5w30 [Re: Env1ous] #5082467
04/22/19 07:50 AM
04/22/19 07:50 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,342
NJ
bluesubie Offline
bluesubie  Offline

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,342
NJ
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by normal_guy1

No track time or autoX. The only "extended spirited driving" I've done was at around 30k miles when I drove it for one hour in 3rd gear at 70-75mph (5-5.5k RPMs)
to perform an "Italian Tune-Up" <because I was too cheap to do walnut blasting>. Oil temperature was in the low-220s.
crackmeup ...Probably wasn't worth it.



FWIW, driving a direct injected car very hard like that will not clean the intake valves, nor will it keep intake valves clean if you drove like that since day one on a direct injected engine. If you have deposits on your intake valves the only real way to fully clean it is walnut blasting.

Originally Posted by Env1ous
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by normal_guy1

No track time or autoX. The only "extended spirited driving" I've done was at around 30k miles when I drove it for one hour in 3rd gear at 70-75mph (5-5.5k RPMs)
to perform an "Italian Tune-Up" <because I was too cheap to do walnut blasting>. Oil temperature was in the low-220s.
crackmeup ...Probably wasn't worth it.



FWIW, driving a direct injected car very hard like that will not clean the intake valves, nor will it keep intake valves clean if you drove like that since day one on a direct injected engine. If you have deposits on your intake valves the only real way to fully clean it is walnut blasting.


It has to help a little? Just from heat and the trauma the valves are taking? lol

Sorta OT

I recall some time ago (I believe here on bitog) someone posted a link to a guy that successfully removed a good bit of intake valve deposits by driving a Golf GTI (or R) on the track at high load for a while. He posted before and after pics as well. The results were not quite as good as walnut shell blasting, but you could definitely see an improvement. I've looked for the link again several times over the years but never found it again. Maybe I'll give it another shot.

FWIW, I do believe a lot of Subaru intake valve deposit issues are blown out of proportion a bit. While there have been some IVD buildup pics floating around the web there have actually been very little driveability issues (CEL's). Most of the Subaru issues are treated as preventative maintenance and reported power improvement verified via butt dyno's (with some actual dynos). The WRX pics I have seen are nothing like the early VW/AUDI/BMW DI days.

Last edited by bluesubie; 04/22/19 07:59 AM.

'04 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
Castrol Edge 0W-40
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