Shell 91 VS Ethanol free

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So I was wondering, with the price of 91 so high these days, the Pic-Quik station where I live sells 91 Octane Ethanol Free for the same price as SHELL super duper Gas! I was thinking about using the Ethanol Free to possibly get a little more Fuel Economy out of it.

However Pic-QuiK Fuels is not on the Top-Tier-Gas list. So will running a Ethanol Free that may not have detergents or a small amount be worse that just sticking with the Shell?

Any thoughts.

Thanks,. I think I posted this on the wrong forum?
 
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Here in Ontario Shell 91 is ethanol free and as far as I know all brands 91 & higher are ethanol free.
Is it not so in the US?
 
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I used to be an E-free nutswinger years ago. I actually went on a several month study back then to prove the E-free was better. The results completely changed the way I view ethanol fuels.

The car was a 1992 Mustang with a 347ci SBF that made 485 rwhp at 7300 rpm with 93 pump gas. I did a direct swap of the two fuels, E10 and E-free 93 octane pump gas, on the dyno. I tuned the car with both fuels to the jagged edge and the engine withstood slightly more timing with E10. This was reflected in E10 actually making slightly more power (485 rwhp vs 481 rwhp). Exhaust gas temperatures were slightly lower with E10. The air/fuel ratio was right on 12.5:1 for both fuels.

I took the car on a rather long drive down the interstate from one gas station to another, filling up with E10 on it's tune the first trip and E-free the second time on it's tune. The E-free did net a 2.7% increase in mpg, but it was also 11% more expensive so that was a net loss.

I also took two small motorcycle carburetors and put E10 in one and E-free in the other. (in the bowls/floats) I let them sit for 4 months through the winter. I then disassembled both carbs and found no signs of gelling or corrosion.

Ever since then, I just fill up with E10 and don't think about it.
 
E free gives more power + mpg's because theres more BTU's in it. an easy choice if pricing is similar. here in PA E free is pricey but i use it in my seasonal carb'd equipment. my husky chain saw require high octane + the E free 91 runs better than Shell 93 with E.
 
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
I used to be an E-free nutswinger years ago. I actually went on a several month study back then to prove the E-free was better. The results completely changed the way I view ethanol fuels.

The car was a 1992 Mustang with a 347ci SBF that made 485 rwhp at 7300 rpm with 93 pump gas. I did a direct swap of the two fuels, E10 and E-free 93 octane pump gas, on the dyno. I tuned the car with both fuels to the jagged edge and the engine withstood slightly more timing with E10. This was reflected in E10 actually making slightly more power (485 rwhp vs 481 rwhp). Exhaust gas temperatures were slightly lower with E10. The air/fuel ratio was right on 12.5:1 for both fuels.

I took the car on a rather long drive down the interstate from one gas station to another, filling up with E10 on it's tune the first trip and E-free the second time on it's tune. The E-free did net a 2.7% increase in mpg, but it was also 11% more expensive so that was a net loss.

I also took two small motorcycle carburetors and put E10 in one and E-free in the other. (in the bowls/floats) I let them sit for 4 months through the winter. I then disassembled both carbs and found no signs of gelling or corrosion.

Ever since then, I just fill up with E10 and don't think about it.


This
 
Originally Posted by Pelican
Here in Ontario Shell 91 is ethanol free and as far as I know all brands 91 & higher are ethanol free.
Is it not so in the US?


Not so. I've never even seen E0 at a gas station. At marinas I have seen it and the price was exorbitant bordering on extortion.
 
Yes, I found this very interesting, maybe the ethanol burns cooler allowing more timing advance. As far as lawn gear goes I will stick with the E0 since it is easier on the gaskets.
 
Been using E0 87 octane for several years now, a noticeable difference in MPG although at the current price it is a break even. Increased mileage offset by the higher price.
 
Originally Posted by kstanf150
Run it
I wish E-free was more affordable where I live



From my experience E0 is usually sold by some mom and pop station with a Podunk gas tank which cannot store ethanol blends without further compromising the fuel.
 
I'd like to at least be given the choice. The nearest E0 station is quite a haul from Dallas. I'll fill up at the Murphy in Rockwall if I happen to be over there for something else. Otherwise, it's Exxon E-10 for me.
 
Originally Posted by WylieCoyote
I'd like to at least be given the choice. The nearest E0 station is quite a haul from Dallas. I'll fill up at the Murphy in Rockwall if I happen to be over there for something else. Otherwise, it's Exxon E-10 for me.



Test that Exxon E-10. I bet it's not E-10 it likely E-3 to E-7.
 
Originally Posted by WylieCoyote
I'd like to at least be given the choice. The nearest E0 station is quite a haul from Dallas. I'll fill up at the Murphy in Rockwall if I happen to be over there for something else. Otherwise, it's Exxon E-10 for me.


The Buccees truck stops they have put in around here have ethanol free 92 octane gasoline, but it's quite a bit more expensive than the e10 blends. IIRC it is about $0.50 per gallon more expensive than the e10 supreme, and that is about $0.50 per gallon more than the e10 regular grade. So probably a Dollar more per gallon than regular 87 e10 gas.
 
Originally Posted by zmelli
So I was wondering, with the price of 91 so high these days, the Pic-Quik station where I live sells 91 Octane Ethanol Free for the same price as SHELL super duper Gas! I was thinking about using the Ethanol Free to possibly get a little more Fuel Economy out of it.

However Pic-QuiK Fuels is not on the Top-Tier-Gas list. So will running a Ethanol Free that may not have detergents or a small amount be worse that just sticking with the Shell?

Any thoughts.

Thanks,. I think I posted this on the wrong forum?


It is always a good feeling to get better fuel economy. But one has to ask if it is really of any benefit. For instance, both of my vehicles (2015 Chevy 2500HD and 2017 Chevy Equinox) are flex fuel. The Nox has a 11.2:1 ratio. It never seems to run all that well on regular even though it will. Higher octane seems to allow the ECM to advance timing to really make the vehicle seem to operate better and more efficiently.

Now that being said, I can get E85 100 octane fuel right now for about $2.07 a gallon. Premium 91 is hovering around $3.05. So, the spread is pretty substantial. On E85, the vehicle gets an average of around 22-23 mpg for all miles, which works out to about 9.5 cents a mile fuel cost. Not a real comforting feeling to get that low of fuel economy. However, to reach a break even with that on premium, the vehicle would have to average roughly 32 mpg.... for all miles not just highway miles. Never going to happen. On a good day, and only on highway miles, the best it has averaged is 28-29 mpg. For all miles, on regular, mid grade, or premium, it averages about 25-26 mpg.

So, to get the most out of that 11.2:1 ratio engine in the Nox, and to keep the actual lowest cost per mile of operation, the vehicle is living on E85 exclusively.

Shoot for good fuel economy, but only if it actually has an appreciable benefit. Not a good idea to throw money down the sock just to get better mpg numbers.
 
Originally Posted by dave1251
Originally Posted by WylieCoyote
I'd like to at least be given the choice. The nearest E0 station is quite a haul from Dallas. I'll fill up at the Murphy in Rockwall if I happen to be over there for something else. Otherwise, it's Exxon E-10 for me.



Test that Exxon E-10. I bet it's not E-10 it likely E-3 to E-7.


The Exxon stations here state "Contains 10% ethanol" as opposed to "MAY contain up to 10% ethanol".
 
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
I used to be an E-free nutswinger years ago. I actually went on a several month study back then to prove the E-free was better. The results completely changed the way I view ethanol fuels.

The car was a 1992 Mustang with a 347ci SBF that made 485 rwhp at 7300 rpm with 93 pump gas. I did a direct swap of the two fuels, E10 and E-free 93 octane pump gas, on the dyno. I tuned the car with both fuels to the jagged edge and the engine withstood slightly more timing with E10. This was reflected in E10 actually making slightly more power (485 rwhp vs 481 rwhp). Exhaust gas temperatures were slightly lower with E10. The air/fuel ratio was right on 12.5:1 for both fuels.

I took the car on a rather long drive down the interstate from one gas station to another, filling up with E10 on it's tune the first trip and E-free the second time on it's tune. The E-free did net a 2.7% increase in mpg, but it was also 11% more expensive so that was a net loss.

I also took two small motorcycle carburetors and put E10 in one and E-free in the other. (in the bowls/floats) I let them sit for 4 months through the winter. I then disassembled both carbs and found no signs of gelling or corrosion.

Ever since then, I just fill up with E10 and don't think about it.


This lawnmower carburetor I tried to clean out soaking with seafoam and crc ivd cleaner for several months, but it seems to be unsalvageable. I have never seen one so bad. Our seasonal outdoor equipment sits closer to 5-6 months a year though. These are my girlfriend's dad's lawnmowers. The other one I was able to get running with a couple months of cleaner in it, it wasn't visibly gelled up like this one though. I will stick to e0 in the outdoor power equipment and run it in my Cutlass the last couple tanks before winter storage.

Same guy with these two lawnmowers has a motorcycle he rides frequently through the summer months. The carburetor messed up this summer on it also.

Financially it doesn't make sense to run e0 in my car when it's driven daily. Even if the carb plugs up every 5-6 years like it has been.

IMG_20190610_174851.jpg
 
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