I time mine out...when they won't hold a charge.
Replace battery every 3 years - needed or not?
- Thread starter Ed_Flecko
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Go buy a cheap digital battery analyzer. I bought an AE300 and it works great to analyze the battery health. You can also analyse the battery health with multimeter which has MAX/MIN option.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKBAtfwN_5U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COJr7OB23Hw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKBAtfwN_5U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COJr7OB23Hw
If you live in a hot climate location then maybe. In the Northeast many test battery in the fall to see if it will get you through the winter.
In hot climate, maybe get it tested twice a year.
In hot climate, maybe get it tested twice a year.
You believe everything you see on the internet? Host probably involved with the battery industry.
I came to the conclusion this week that I needed to replace the battery in the MG after needing to jump it on two separate days a couple of days apart. There is no "phantom" drain on this car-off is off, and there are no radio presets or anything else to maintain. I've owned the car 3 1/2 years, the previous owner had it 5, and it still has the battery that was in it when he replaced it. To be fair, this is a "remote mount" battery(behind the passenger seat), so it doesn't see high under-hood temperatures.
My MKZ is not on its factory battery, as the one in it is Duralast branded. Regardless, I had it load tested at the beginning of the winter just to be sure and it was fine. I know it's more than 3 years old.
The last battery I bought was in my dearly departed Lincoln LS. It was built 1/04 and I replaced it 1/11. It also was a remote mount battery(trunk) and actually failed rather suddenly. I started it one cold morning(single digits IIRC), and it died a few seconds after starting and wouldn't crank again. I pulled it and had it tested, and it tested bad. The replacement was still in it when I got rid of the car in '17, and I had it load tested in the fall of '16 in preparation for the winter.
We don't have extended super cold spells here generally, but in a given year will usually have 2-3 days with below zero lows, probably 1-2 weeks(in total) where the temperature doesn't go above freezing, and quite a few more with highs in the 30s. We also will generally have a few days of highs above 100, and a fair few more with highs in the 90s.
My MKZ is not on its factory battery, as the one in it is Duralast branded. Regardless, I had it load tested at the beginning of the winter just to be sure and it was fine. I know it's more than 3 years old.
The last battery I bought was in my dearly departed Lincoln LS. It was built 1/04 and I replaced it 1/11. It also was a remote mount battery(trunk) and actually failed rather suddenly. I started it one cold morning(single digits IIRC), and it died a few seconds after starting and wouldn't crank again. I pulled it and had it tested, and it tested bad. The replacement was still in it when I got rid of the car in '17, and I had it load tested in the fall of '16 in preparation for the winter.
We don't have extended super cold spells here generally, but in a given year will usually have 2-3 days with below zero lows, probably 1-2 weeks(in total) where the temperature doesn't go above freezing, and quite a few more with highs in the 30s. We also will generally have a few days of highs above 100, and a fair few more with highs in the 90s.
I would go AGM if you are not in the hot southern sections of the country.
As a tow truck tech for AAA, this is what I tell people: your battery with some exceptions, is mostly designed to last 3 years. Anything after that is on borrowed time but with care, you can go to 5 years for the most part.
Originally Posted by KE7JFF
As a tow truck tech for AAA, this is what I tell people: your battery with some exceptions, is mostly designed to last 3 years. Anything after that is on borrowed time but with care, you can go to 5 years for the most part.
Especially in today's smart charging systems that can be picky about voltages...
I always stress test my batteries every fall to check their condition. At first sign of weakness I change them out.
As a tow truck tech for AAA, this is what I tell people: your battery with some exceptions, is mostly designed to last 3 years. Anything after that is on borrowed time but with care, you can go to 5 years for the most part.
Especially in today's smart charging systems that can be picky about voltages...
I always stress test my batteries every fall to check their condition. At first sign of weakness I change them out.
I usually get about 7. I replace when it either dies suddenly (shorts a cell) or won't hold a charge overnight. I did replace the one in my wife's car around 5 or 6 years as it seemed due--I think it might have cranked a bit slow the previous winter, and decided for once to be proactive. usually once they fail I just drive to parts store (or Walmart) and swap out, each of my vehicles has a small toolkit and it's minutes to swap.
I'm shocked that the one in my truck is 9 years old. Couple years ago I drained it somehow, 8V, gave it a jump and it's been fine. I suspect being in a rural area and doing lots of driving keeps the batteries topped off.
I'm shocked that the one in my truck is 9 years old. Couple years ago I drained it somehow, 8V, gave it a jump and it's been fine. I suspect being in a rural area and doing lots of driving keeps the batteries topped off.
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The original battery in my previous 2006 Toyota matrix was going strong after 9 years.
But I didn't trust it for a 10th winter. It was mainly a weekend driver ~6000mi/yr.
I'd fully charge it every 3 months. My current car I have a 5W solar charger.
Keeps it at 12.9V on sunny days.
But I didn't trust it for a 10th winter. It was mainly a weekend driver ~6000mi/yr.
I'd fully charge it every 3 months. My current car I have a 5W solar charger.
Keeps it at 12.9V on sunny days.
Considering my how long my batteries have lasted the past few decades I would be wasting a lot of money swapping them out every three years. The last two batteries I replaced was a 9 year old battery in my Liberty and a 13+ year old battery in my E-150. Neither of those batteries left me stranded.
I'm going to back off my contempt of the recommendation, where it pertains to more modern vehicles.
I was thinking of older vehicles, those that are not intentionally trying to keep the battery at a low enough state of charge that it can accept higher amperage when the voltage regulator decides it wants mid to high 14's.
My dad's cadilliac has a trunk mounted AGM, and I doubt the battery is going o last much more than 3 years as it is never allowed to be kept at or even near full charge. Full charge resting voltage of his battery is ~12.93 yet going down the road 12.7 v is the number the regulator is commanding, with brief spurts to teh mid 14s, usually when coasting or braking, but occassionally otherwise and voltage checks 2 hours after after driving 3 hours on highway are revealing 12.63v or less, where full charge resting voltage is way higher than that.
Lead acid bateries Ideally would always be at ,or very near, 100% state of charge. Too many modern vehicles today intentionally prevent this so they can get tiny MPG advantages and come closer to CAFE compliance.
If 100% State of Charge can be regularly achieved/maintained then 3 years should be cakework for even the cheapest Starter battery, barring any manufacturing defects, but one intentionally kept no more than 75% SOC, 3 years is all that can really be expected.
The intentional 75% SOC is asinine, in my opinion, the tiny amounts of Petroleum distillates it might save are a tiny fraction of the energy used in transporting and recyclng prematurely dying lead acid batteries caused by keeping them intentionally discharged.
Even though the newer vehicles might drain a grid recharged 100% charged battery back to 75%, the mere fact that it was recharged to somewhere much closer to full, from the grid should help extend its lifespan, over the vehicle's battery which just rested at 75% SOC overnight.
The effort of hooking up a grid powered charger to attempt to achieve 100% SOC occassionally, perhaps might not be worth the extra battery life to most drivers/vehicle owners. even if they were aware of the advantages. Lots of people brag how wasteful they can afford to be and might be like 'you got 3 years??? I only got two!' Implying 'you' suck, and I don't care, because either it is covered under warranty and replaced for free, or a 100$ new battery is nothing to me every two years and who cares if it is wasteful, the planet is doomed anyway and I won't be around to see it.
I was thinking of older vehicles, those that are not intentionally trying to keep the battery at a low enough state of charge that it can accept higher amperage when the voltage regulator decides it wants mid to high 14's.
My dad's cadilliac has a trunk mounted AGM, and I doubt the battery is going o last much more than 3 years as it is never allowed to be kept at or even near full charge. Full charge resting voltage of his battery is ~12.93 yet going down the road 12.7 v is the number the regulator is commanding, with brief spurts to teh mid 14s, usually when coasting or braking, but occassionally otherwise and voltage checks 2 hours after after driving 3 hours on highway are revealing 12.63v or less, where full charge resting voltage is way higher than that.
Lead acid bateries Ideally would always be at ,or very near, 100% state of charge. Too many modern vehicles today intentionally prevent this so they can get tiny MPG advantages and come closer to CAFE compliance.
If 100% State of Charge can be regularly achieved/maintained then 3 years should be cakework for even the cheapest Starter battery, barring any manufacturing defects, but one intentionally kept no more than 75% SOC, 3 years is all that can really be expected.
The intentional 75% SOC is asinine, in my opinion, the tiny amounts of Petroleum distillates it might save are a tiny fraction of the energy used in transporting and recyclng prematurely dying lead acid batteries caused by keeping them intentionally discharged.
Even though the newer vehicles might drain a grid recharged 100% charged battery back to 75%, the mere fact that it was recharged to somewhere much closer to full, from the grid should help extend its lifespan, over the vehicle's battery which just rested at 75% SOC overnight.
The effort of hooking up a grid powered charger to attempt to achieve 100% SOC occassionally, perhaps might not be worth the extra battery life to most drivers/vehicle owners. even if they were aware of the advantages. Lots of people brag how wasteful they can afford to be and might be like 'you got 3 years??? I only got two!' Implying 'you' suck, and I don't care, because either it is covered under warranty and replaced for free, or a 100$ new battery is nothing to me every two years and who cares if it is wasteful, the planet is doomed anyway and I won't be around to see it.
I would never replace a battery at 3 years and I change my M1 ever 3000 miles!!! lol
As usual... A great post wrcsixeight...
I agree about the 75 percent circumstance... It's stupid. And I have now come to the firm belief that my 08 Nissan does this... Yesterday voltage check my car was 12.54 temp 70 degrees out... My lady's Camry a 1998... 12.74. I drive my car a lot in longer trips... Just yesterday I went 120 miles non stop. My usual driving is typically a lot of longer drives in the country. Last week I drove 220 miles in one afternoon. And this is not the first time I've noticed this circumstance. No... It's been this way for a long while. I've charged my Nissan Altima battery one time... And yet it drops right back down to 75-80 percent charged in just about two days...
I agree about the 75 percent circumstance... It's stupid. And I have now come to the firm belief that my 08 Nissan does this... Yesterday voltage check my car was 12.54 temp 70 degrees out... My lady's Camry a 1998... 12.74. I drive my car a lot in longer trips... Just yesterday I went 120 miles non stop. My usual driving is typically a lot of longer drives in the country. Last week I drove 220 miles in one afternoon. And this is not the first time I've noticed this circumstance. No... It's been this way for a long while. I've charged my Nissan Altima battery one time... And yet it drops right back down to 75-80 percent charged in just about two days...
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Well, It is hard to go by voltage alone, to judge the battery state of charge. Low readings might be because the door is open and some electronics powered up with that open door, or a partially sulfated older battery, or it could just be far from fully charged if otherwise healthy and not too cold as suspected or some and any degree of all three.
Have a hydrometer? I like the OTC4619. No hydrometer or desire to use one?... put a charging source on the battery, see how many amps the battery accepts once it reaches higher voltages. If it accepts a lot of amperage, it is not anywhere near fully charged. No Ammeter, well then you are nearly blind, as voltage alone is not really informative as to the battery health, or state of charge.
How many amps are flowing into the battery when charging, at what voltage is very informative, seeing just 14.4, is not. A battery accepting 45 amps at 14.4v is nowhere near fully charged, a battery acccepting only 0.4 amps at 14.4 is very likely fully charged. No Ammeter? You're blind
Likewise observing a battery maintaining 11+ volts under a 4 second 140 amp starter load is informative, seeing a battery holding at 12.2v and not knowing if it is powering a load, or was just powering a load, and not knowing the size(amperage) of that load, is not informative. So knowing the amperage flow, at the battry voltage is informative, but voltage alone is not, and can be very misleading.
Voltage is ONLY accurately representative of state of charge on a battery that has NOT seen any discharging loads or charging sources for many hours. And some batteries full charge rested voltage might be 12.62v, some might be 12.74, and some AGMs might be as high as 13.16v. With experience one can make accurate guesses regarding voltage and state of charge of a specific battery, but blanket statements like 12.54 volts = 74% charged should be avoided unless verified by earlier hydrometer nd voltage readings taken when that exact specific battery was newer, and at teh same temperature.
So Unless one actually fully charged the specific battery when it was new, waited 24 hours, then measured the voltage, then one cannot say '12.5 volts, thats only 72% charged!!' Well they can say it but will likely be quite inaccurate. Surface charge can also stick around a lot longer on a new healthy battery, so even this attempt at being more precise, can be marred.
A abttery low on electrolyte, even if slightly below the tops of the plates can also seem to be performing very well in the voltage retention department. But top it off with distilled water and that voltage tanks. Most people who suspect the battery health, and find low water levels, refill it, soon wind up buying a new battery.
Watch voltage as you drive to see whether your vehicle is always keeping charging voltages of 13.6+, or sometimes it just allows the battery to drop to the 12.7v range.
Cars that are not intending to eek out more MPGs by intentionally undercharging the battery so that it can then accept higher am when the voltage regulator commands higher system voltage, will usually seek mid 14volts right after starting, then drop to mid to higher 13s within a few minutes. Do not be one of those people who starts an engine, sees 14.4v and assumes that it the voltage always held.
Cars that are trying to meet CAFE standards through manipulating the charging system to the detriment of the battery, will allow batery voltage to drop into the mid 12's driving at a steady speed and just sometimes go higher, usually coasting or braking but some other times in between too. This board could use more data as to what vehicle and model years are using this battery destroying method of attempted CAFE compliance, and when mid 12's are allowed and when mid 14's or voltages in between are allowed. I've only witnessed it personally on two later model GM vehicles.
While the cheap ciggy plug digital voltmeters can read low if there are other significant loads on the shared wiring that also feed the ciggy plug, one can still get a good idea of what the vehicle's voltage regulator is doing as one drives. Better would be a dedicated Voltmeter right to the battery terminals. My first voltmeter I had to watch while I was driving, was a $2.99 cen-tech harbor freight DMM with a ciggy plug spliced into the DMM leads.
Now I have a 3 wire digitalmultimeter ignition switched whose ground and voltage sense lead go right to the battery terminals over 22awg 'zip'wire. but then again I also have a digital ammeter on my dash showing amps into or out of the battery, and an adjustable voltage regulator whose voltage adjustment dial is right next to the ammeters and voltmeters, as I intentionally deeply cycle my dual purpose AGM battery, and want it recharging as fast as possible every time I drive. the stock voltage regulator deciding 13.7v was fine and dandy delivering 1/3 the amperage as would 14.7v, when my battery was less than fully charged, infuriated me.
If one finds their vehicle is allowing mid 12v when underway, it is a sure sign it's designers were trying to get 0.001 more MPG by allowing battery to remain under 80% charged. A 1980's vehicle reading 12.5v underway is likely a sign of a recently failed charging system and that voltage will just keep dropping as it powers the ignition fuel pump and any other Dc loads., but a newer vehicle that 12.5v is likely intentional.
Such a C.A.F.E sacrificed battery will still benefit from grid powered 'smart' charging sources to return it to as close to 100% as it can. Usually they too stop holding the higher absorption voltage( mid 14's) well short of a true full charge, which is why I will recommend flooded battery owners use the AGM battery setting on their 'smart' charger, as float voltage on a flooded battery is generally 13.2v, and an AGM battery should be around 13.6v, and 13.6v held for 8 hours after it quit holding absorption voltage, stands much better chance of fully charging the battery overnight than 13.2v does as voltage is electrical pressure. More pressure, more amps flow. Float voltage is designed to maintain the battery at full charge with minimum possible overcharge. it is near impossible to fully charge a depleted battery at float voltage, and even finish charging at float voltage is a bit foolhearty, as so little amperage will flow.
Just dont leave a healthy newish flooded battery floating on the AGM setting for a week, and no harm will be done. If it is an older sulfated batery with caps, the AGM float voltage setting will likely be beneficial if left attached longer term, as long as the water level is not allowed to drop below the tops of the plates. if charger and battery are cold, since most do not have temp compensation, definitely use the AGM setting for float as 13.2 and 13.6v float voltages, assume a battery temp of 77F degrees.
One often has to be smarter than the 'smart' charger to achieve a state of charge close to or actually achieve 100%, especially on older partially sulfated batteries.
If maximum possible battery longevity is the goal, then keep or return the battery to truly fully charged as often as possible as soon as possible, and also kept cool. Anything less than this is detrimental to its potential lifespan. The hotter the average temperature of the battery and the lower the average state of charge, the shorter its expected lifespan will be, even with hail mary attempts at full charges near the end.
But being a servant to a rented lead acid battery, can get old quick.
The average temperature of the lead acid battery whether flooded AGM Gel or maintenance free, and its average state of charge, play a much bigger role in its longevity, compared to whome made/marketed the battery.
Have a hydrometer? I like the OTC4619. No hydrometer or desire to use one?... put a charging source on the battery, see how many amps the battery accepts once it reaches higher voltages. If it accepts a lot of amperage, it is not anywhere near fully charged. No Ammeter, well then you are nearly blind, as voltage alone is not really informative as to the battery health, or state of charge.
How many amps are flowing into the battery when charging, at what voltage is very informative, seeing just 14.4, is not. A battery accepting 45 amps at 14.4v is nowhere near fully charged, a battery acccepting only 0.4 amps at 14.4 is very likely fully charged. No Ammeter? You're blind
Likewise observing a battery maintaining 11+ volts under a 4 second 140 amp starter load is informative, seeing a battery holding at 12.2v and not knowing if it is powering a load, or was just powering a load, and not knowing the size(amperage) of that load, is not informative. So knowing the amperage flow, at the battry voltage is informative, but voltage alone is not, and can be very misleading.
Voltage is ONLY accurately representative of state of charge on a battery that has NOT seen any discharging loads or charging sources for many hours. And some batteries full charge rested voltage might be 12.62v, some might be 12.74, and some AGMs might be as high as 13.16v. With experience one can make accurate guesses regarding voltage and state of charge of a specific battery, but blanket statements like 12.54 volts = 74% charged should be avoided unless verified by earlier hydrometer nd voltage readings taken when that exact specific battery was newer, and at teh same temperature.
So Unless one actually fully charged the specific battery when it was new, waited 24 hours, then measured the voltage, then one cannot say '12.5 volts, thats only 72% charged!!' Well they can say it but will likely be quite inaccurate. Surface charge can also stick around a lot longer on a new healthy battery, so even this attempt at being more precise, can be marred.
A abttery low on electrolyte, even if slightly below the tops of the plates can also seem to be performing very well in the voltage retention department. But top it off with distilled water and that voltage tanks. Most people who suspect the battery health, and find low water levels, refill it, soon wind up buying a new battery.
Watch voltage as you drive to see whether your vehicle is always keeping charging voltages of 13.6+, or sometimes it just allows the battery to drop to the 12.7v range.
Cars that are not intending to eek out more MPGs by intentionally undercharging the battery so that it can then accept higher am when the voltage regulator commands higher system voltage, will usually seek mid 14volts right after starting, then drop to mid to higher 13s within a few minutes. Do not be one of those people who starts an engine, sees 14.4v and assumes that it the voltage always held.
Cars that are trying to meet CAFE standards through manipulating the charging system to the detriment of the battery, will allow batery voltage to drop into the mid 12's driving at a steady speed and just sometimes go higher, usually coasting or braking but some other times in between too. This board could use more data as to what vehicle and model years are using this battery destroying method of attempted CAFE compliance, and when mid 12's are allowed and when mid 14's or voltages in between are allowed. I've only witnessed it personally on two later model GM vehicles.
While the cheap ciggy plug digital voltmeters can read low if there are other significant loads on the shared wiring that also feed the ciggy plug, one can still get a good idea of what the vehicle's voltage regulator is doing as one drives. Better would be a dedicated Voltmeter right to the battery terminals. My first voltmeter I had to watch while I was driving, was a $2.99 cen-tech harbor freight DMM with a ciggy plug spliced into the DMM leads.
Now I have a 3 wire digitalmultimeter ignition switched whose ground and voltage sense lead go right to the battery terminals over 22awg 'zip'wire. but then again I also have a digital ammeter on my dash showing amps into or out of the battery, and an adjustable voltage regulator whose voltage adjustment dial is right next to the ammeters and voltmeters, as I intentionally deeply cycle my dual purpose AGM battery, and want it recharging as fast as possible every time I drive. the stock voltage regulator deciding 13.7v was fine and dandy delivering 1/3 the amperage as would 14.7v, when my battery was less than fully charged, infuriated me.
If one finds their vehicle is allowing mid 12v when underway, it is a sure sign it's designers were trying to get 0.001 more MPG by allowing battery to remain under 80% charged. A 1980's vehicle reading 12.5v underway is likely a sign of a recently failed charging system and that voltage will just keep dropping as it powers the ignition fuel pump and any other Dc loads., but a newer vehicle that 12.5v is likely intentional.
Such a C.A.F.E sacrificed battery will still benefit from grid powered 'smart' charging sources to return it to as close to 100% as it can. Usually they too stop holding the higher absorption voltage( mid 14's) well short of a true full charge, which is why I will recommend flooded battery owners use the AGM battery setting on their 'smart' charger, as float voltage on a flooded battery is generally 13.2v, and an AGM battery should be around 13.6v, and 13.6v held for 8 hours after it quit holding absorption voltage, stands much better chance of fully charging the battery overnight than 13.2v does as voltage is electrical pressure. More pressure, more amps flow. Float voltage is designed to maintain the battery at full charge with minimum possible overcharge. it is near impossible to fully charge a depleted battery at float voltage, and even finish charging at float voltage is a bit foolhearty, as so little amperage will flow.
Just dont leave a healthy newish flooded battery floating on the AGM setting for a week, and no harm will be done. If it is an older sulfated batery with caps, the AGM float voltage setting will likely be beneficial if left attached longer term, as long as the water level is not allowed to drop below the tops of the plates. if charger and battery are cold, since most do not have temp compensation, definitely use the AGM setting for float as 13.2 and 13.6v float voltages, assume a battery temp of 77F degrees.
One often has to be smarter than the 'smart' charger to achieve a state of charge close to or actually achieve 100%, especially on older partially sulfated batteries.
If maximum possible battery longevity is the goal, then keep or return the battery to truly fully charged as often as possible as soon as possible, and also kept cool. Anything less than this is detrimental to its potential lifespan. The hotter the average temperature of the battery and the lower the average state of charge, the shorter its expected lifespan will be, even with hail mary attempts at full charges near the end.
But being a servant to a rented lead acid battery, can get old quick.
The average temperature of the lead acid battery whether flooded AGM Gel or maintenance free, and its average state of charge, play a much bigger role in its longevity, compared to whome made/marketed the battery.
The OE delco battery in my buick lasted 13 years and about 110K miles. It is under the back seat. This is a big help. My OE motorcycle battery lasted 7 years and I replaced it before it failed. The replacement lasted 2 years. Then I put in an odyssey. It is still alive. If is ain't broke, leave it alone.
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