Small vs larger oil filters?

[RamFan]

Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Originally Posted by RamFan
Originally Posted by Quattro Pete
Sure, they could put larger everything, and next thing you know the vehicle would weigh 5000 lbs and get horrible fuel economy.

x2

Even though you own a 4,500lb SRT

Yup, and it gets horrible fuel economy for some reason. Go figure.

The SRT actually uses a smaller filter than my 530i, but I am not concerned. I haven't seen any evidence of these HEMI engines failing due to a lack of a big filter.

Exactly. Are they still using the PH16 (Fram number) equivalent filter or have they switched? It's been a while since I've owned Mopars.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted by RamFan
[Are they still using the PH16 (Fram number) equivalent filter or have they switched? It's been a while since I've owned Mopars.

The OEM Mopar filter cross references to Fram Extra Guard PH2. But if I punch in my vehicle model on FRAM's website, it gives several options: XG2, TG2, PH2, and HP16.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted by CT8
Originally Posted by StevieC
Cars today are different from yester-year and so are the quality of oils, they don't require big filters any longer because the engines and oils aren't generating a lot of junk to catch and the filters are acting more like an insurance policy against any debris that might be harmful in the even it is generated. Even the tiny filters that are cut/posted here look great even at 10K miles (16K KM).

It's the "obsession" factor here that makes people think otherwise because folks often forget that the majority of the population gets by just fine usually on conventional oil using jobber economy oil filters for 200K miles.

Actually the filters shrunk when lead was removed from the gasoline.

Because there was less for the filter to catch. They also shrunk again since then over the years.

 

[Bill_W]

Engineering is not interested in wasting resources but if there would be benefits in a larger filter for a gas engine they would go there. Cost... Not really in my opinion. A long time ago we used to rebuild engines, buy short blocks exc... Gotta love the new stuff.

 

[69Torino]

Originally Posted by mattwithcats


Save 25 cents per car, times 100,000 cars, equals $40,000...

Good math.

Just messin.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted by 69Torino
Originally Posted by mattwithcats


Save 25 cents per car, times 100,000 cars, equals $40,000...

Good math.

Just messin.

 

[jeepman3071]

From the filters I have cut open, a lot of the smaller ones seem to be sturdier media-wise. The only Purolator made filter I've seen torn with my own eyes was a long and skinny Motorcraft FL-400s.

 

[Malo83]

Regardless it's the bigger filter for me

 

[dwendt44]

Smaller engines (in many cases) and thinner oils.
If the small filter flows adequately, save a few cents over a larger filter.
Cleaner running engines also contributes.

My 2¢

 

[WobblyElvis]

American V8's of the 70's and 80's used a large filter and changed it every second oil change. Often that was 15,000 miles. V6's were the same.
I've owned 4 Dodge vans with the 3.3 , all built in the 90's. They first called for a PH8a full size filter changed every second OCI. By the late 90's they downsized the filter to a P16 which was half the size and called for a filter change every OCI. This would lower the initial cost of production and then make more money for them during an oil change. I just use the bigger filter and run it two OCI's.

 

[benjy]

everything today is about the $$$$, as noted small savings add up to big dollars. other simple deletions like dip sticks + plugs for easy servicing add up $$$$. i believe thats the reason less reliable CVT's are being more common, manufacturers care less about repairs once your warranty is gone + likely hope you trade for a newer vehicle increasing the bottom line $$$$. just like todays sick care, too many healthy people could put big pharma + docs + hospitals a less profitable business. why do you think lawmakers with greased $$$ pockets want to either eliminate or make nutritional supplements a script $$$$$$$ runs EVERYTHING today!!

 

[Bill_W]

Originally Posted by benjy
everything today is about the $$$$, as noted small savings add up to big dollars. other simple deletions like dip sticks + plugs for easy servicing add up $$$$. i believe thats the reason less reliable CVT's are being more common, manufacturers care less about repairs once your warranty is gone + likely hope you trade for a newer vehicle increasing the bottom line $$$$. just like todays sick care, too many healthy people could put big pharma + docs + hospitals a less profitable business. why do you think lawmakers with greased $$$ pockets want to either eliminate or make nutritional supplements a script $$$$$$$ runs EVERYTHING today!!


Here is the list to choose. Most reliable to least reliable.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgor...reliable-rides-on-the-road/#12fb231652c7

 

[JeffKeryk]

The filter on our V8 Tundra is pretty small; I believe it is the same as used for the smaller 6 and 4 bangers as well.
Thr Toyota TRD filter is larger. I think I used the M1-301 (PH8 is similiar) which allowed for a full 7 quart service.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by doitmyself
The pennies they save per unit add up over hundreds of thousands of vehicles. I would think they want to consolidate filter inventory over as many vehicles as possible. Its the ecologically correct thing to do. Smaller is better.

I don't necessary think that size necessarily affects cost in any appreciable manner. The cost of the Subaru filters doesn't seem to correlate with the size. In fact the smaller ones are often made in Japan and cost more.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by benjy
everything today is about the $$$$, as noted small savings add up to big dollars. other simple deletions like dip sticks + plugs for easy servicing add up $$$$. i believe thats the reason less reliable CVT's are being more common, manufacturers care less about repairs once your warranty is gone + likely hope you trade for a newer vehicle increasing the bottom line $$$$. just like todays sick care, too many healthy people could put big pharma + docs + hospitals a less profitable business. why do you think lawmakers with greased $$$ pockets want to either eliminate or make nutritional supplements a script $$$$$$$ runs EVERYTHING today!!




Everyone is out to get you benjy


Take a deep breath.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by mattwithcats
Cost, and warehouse space...

Up to 1999, GM used 40 amp relays for everything...
In 2000, they switched to 20, 30, and 40, same base, same operation.
Not surprised that a company like GM would go backwards like that... Now, instead of buying one part at 3x the volume, and subsequent discount, they buy three different parts at 1/3 the volume and pay more.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by Bailes1992
Two reasons I can think of, the first being cost and the 2nd being compatibility.

While a filter may fit your engine in your car, the same engine in another car may not have the room for a larger filter.

Very true. People too often only look at their specific application vs "the big picture". Honda, for example, might only use (1) filter across their entire line, if I'm not mistaken. That's purchasing power with oil filter manufacturers !

 

[shibby6600]

Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by mattwithcats
Cost, and warehouse space...

Up to 1999, GM used 40 amp relays for everything...
In 2000, they switched to 20, 30, and 40, same base, same operation.
Not surprised that a company like GM would go backwards like that... Now, instead of buying one part at 3x the volume, and subsequent discount, they buy three different parts at 1/3 the volume and pay more.


In practice it's not that simple. They may have changed a lot of electrical components that cannot withstand 40 amp spikes, so 10-30 amp fuses are used. Those more sensitive components may be 10x cheaper, smaller, longer lasting, etc. and more than makes up for the cost of different fuses.

 

[harry j]

I don't like the idea of the oil rushing through such a small filter, so it's a larger filter for me.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted by harry j
I don't like the idea of the oil rushing through such a small filter, so it's a larger filter for me.


I agree.

Filter media has less "stress" and less pressure differential when you add more surface area.