Why so many sub-2 liter cars with CVTs?

[Huie83]

Yep, I'm going to hold out as long as possible before I get one. I've ridden in a few Subaru's with CVT's as well as a Nissan rental I had. Hated every minute of it.

I guess you have people that like to actually like the feeling of driving, they like engine tones and shifting etc. Then you have the mass population that just considers their car an appliance.

I drive a VW with a DSG trans and love it. It's not always the smoothest in it's operation but it shifts amazingly fast and the same every time. Add the manual shift option and its very controllable, like driving a manual without a clutch pedal IMO.

 

[grampi]

I don't know why there is so much hate for CVTs. I drove a 2017 Corolla with a CVT and it was far more responsive to drive because of the CVT. I can see the dislike for the early CVTs as they just didn't hold up very well, but that isn't the case anymore. I'd take a new vehicle with a CVT in a heartbeat...these tiny engines with turbos, now that's a different story...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....



My impression, based on nothing of substance, is that CVT's are inherently weak and problem prone.


Probably because they used to be weak. They aren't anymore...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....


If an 8, 9, or 10 speed automatic ever has to be repaired, rebuilt, or replaced, it will be so expensive the owner of the vehicle will wish it had a CVT...

 

[JeffKeryk]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
You don't want boring? Drive a Tesla Model 3.
Just sayin'...

Oversized driving iPad for people who want to play video game while driving.

Actually, this is true. Most say iPhone though.
It is such an amazing vehicle; so far ahead of anything else.
For example, the upcoming Taycan was touted to have over 300 mile range, but is now expected to be in the lower 200 mile range.
We will just have to wait and see.

 

[CT8]

Cafe standards.

 

[Treadstone]

Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....


I would love a stick. The problem is, the traffic around here is so bad, it is not practical.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by Treadstone
Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....


I would love a stick. The problem is, the traffic around here is so bad, it is not practical.




Yep. Once you drive 30 miles in stop and go freeway traffic the stick shift loses its luster.

 

[supton]

Hadn't bothered me in the past, stop and go on the highway. A nice light hydraulic (or cable for the matter) isn't that bad.

Not going to say it's fun on a day in and day out basis, but it's not the end of the world either.

Like everything, it's a tradeoff. I miss my car staying in gear I selected--some left work action wouldn't bother me as a tradeoff for better transmission programming.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
You don't want boring? Drive a Tesla Model 3.
Just sayin'...

Oversized driving iPad for people who want to play video game while driving.

Actually, this is true. Most say iPhone though.
It is such an amazing vehicle; so far ahead of anything else.
For example, the upcoming Taycan was touted to have over 300 mile range, but is now expected to be in the lower 200 mile range.
We will just have to wait and see.

I am not sure you understand my sarcasm.
I want to puke when I see one. And not once I saw driver paying attention to the road. They always play with that oversized screen.
They should just do us all a favor and use public transportation where they can enjoy playing on iPad.
And how is "far ahead of anything else?" In which terms "is far ahead?"

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....

Automatic, especially ZF automatics are to certain point fun as they are super fast in shifting.
However, you have a point. A lot of issues would be solved if we had more manuals, including texting, eating, reading magazines (I saw this several times).
This article explains manuals from psychiatrists view point:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/23/opinion/sunday/stick-shift-cars.html



I really like the ZF 8HP in my 4 series. Great article btw....IMO the whole self-driving push is about #1 Make work program #2 All about keeping humans engaged with technological products/services for as long as possible. It's not about safety, it's about encouraging people to use their phones/tablets.

Yep, I agree 100%.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....

Automatic, especially ZF automatics are to certain point fun as they are super fast in shifting.
However, you have a point. A lot of issues would be solved if we had more manuals, including texting, eating, reading magazines (I saw this several times).
This article explains manuals from psychiatrists view point:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/23/opinion/sunday/stick-shift-cars.html


I once watched a dude eat a sandwich while steering with his knee and shifting at the same time.

Well sure. I did it all the time, but some situations are not allowing you to do it, and as article points, more engagement leads to more focus.

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by grampi
Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....


If an 8, 9, or 10 speed automatic ever has to be repaired, rebuilt, or replaced, it will be so expensive the owner of the vehicle will wish it had a CVT...


New 845re 8 speed trans, which includes a torque converter, for my 300 would be about $2600, not including labor. A reman RE0F10A Nissan CVT is, after a quick look, is running about $2200.

 

[littlehulkster]

Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....


I'm sure a stick works fine in flat places like Minnesota, but up here in the mountains, trying to get a manual going on a hill covered in ice (which is a regular occurrence about 8 months out of the year) gets VERY old VERY fast and if it goes wrong (which it easily can), it also gets VERY expensive.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....


I'm sure a stick works fine in flat places like Minnesota, but up here in the mountains, trying to get a manual going on a hill covered in ice (which is a regular occurrence about 8 months out of the year) gets VERY old VERY fast and if it goes wrong (which it easily can), it also gets VERY expensive.

Odd, I thought manual was easier on snow/ice. One more element of control--you can feather the clutch very easily.

 

[littlehulkster]

Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....


I'm sure a stick works fine in flat places like Minnesota, but up here in the mountains, trying to get a manual going on a hill covered in ice (which is a regular occurrence about 8 months out of the year) gets VERY old VERY fast and if it goes wrong (which it easily can), it also gets VERY expensive.

Odd, I thought manual was easier on snow/ice. One more element of control--you can feather the clutch very easily.


If you want to do heel/toe starts every day for 8 months, be my guest. I'll pass on that, and reduce my odds of rolling back into the idiot who's too close to my bumper. I have $1000 deductible so that would not be cheap for me.

 

[E365]

Many manual transmission cars now have Hill Hold assist and it's extremely effective when starting on a hill. Both my MINI Cooper and Ford Focus have it.

 

[ndfergy]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster
If you want to do heel/toe starts every day for 8 months, be my guest. I'll pass on that, and reduce my odds of rolling back into the idiot who's too close to my bumper. I have $1000 deductible so that would not be cheap for me.


Huh! never heard of a hand brake. What you describe, heel/toe, is a racing technique used to keep your car balanced on a downshift. Holding your car on a steep grade with your brake then rolling on to the throttle while releasing the clutch is a bad idea if not extremely difficult depending on your pedal arrangement and footwear (try that with wet winter boots). Manuals give you better control and are not subject to wonky shift logic.

 

[supton]

Never had hill hold stuff. On a real steep hill I'd just be real fast on going from brake to throttle, or might even resort to using the handbrake--but really, that had to be a steep hill to bother with. Just be quick on throttle. It wasn't hard at all.

In those days I did have insurance, but only liability. Not that I'd bother fixing any dent anyhow.

I suppose you might be right, if there was piles of snow on the ground, then that would add to the problem. Good set of tires and perhaps AWD/4WD would be wise in those conditions. Too bad "real" 4WD systems with manual trans are all but extinct now. I recall likely my Subaru GL which was FWD until you pulled the handle to engage the rear axle.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by philipp10
I don't understand how people that drive automatics can point the finger at CVT's as if the automatic is somehow superior. IMO, they both suck. The real question is, why do we not have more manual transmissions. Because none of you would buy them....


I'm sure a stick works fine in flat places like Minnesota, but up here in the mountains, trying to get a manual going on a hill covered in ice (which is a regular occurrence about 8 months out of the year) gets VERY old VERY fast and if it goes wrong (which it easily can), it also gets VERY expensive.


Each application has it's purpose. Where you're at, or in heavy traffic, an auto or a CVT makes sense. Here in OH, finding back roads full of scenery makes driving a stick a joy...