0w16 t0 0w8

[ka9mnx]

Originally Posted by Michael_P
Two years ago I re-powered my Great Lakes boat from a DD 6V71 to a DD 60 Series. I still have the old 6V71 on the side of my barn tarped up. I now want to get some 0W8 and fill the old two stroke diesel with it and give it all it's got. See what happens.

2 cycle Detroit Diesels didn't like anything but straight weight oil (40W normal and 30W Artic conditions). They had a severe drinking problem with 15w-40.

 

[Michael_P]

Quote
2 cycle Detroit Diesels didn't like anything but straight weight oil (40W normal and 30W Artic conditions). They had a severe drinking problem with 15w-40.


Exactly. Anyone who has owned a DD 2 stroke should have gotten the humor.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Nickdfresh
Originally Posted by edyvw
Toyota will move all their engines to 0W8 in no time, regardless that they were developed when 15W40 was norm.
Anything, just not to invest more in engines, bcs. "reliability."


I would bet serious money that Toyota's engine failure rate with their "sewing machine erl'" 0W-20 is well below that of VW using their manly 5W-40's...

And I'm not a fan of either...

It is. No doubt about it. When average Toyota driver drives 30mph below speed limit in left lane, Yugo engine will move most of their cars OK and pretty reliable.
But take into consideration that VW VR6 engines are actually bulletproof and I would bet my money on that engine for longevity any time over 2GR-FE in SIenna.
Do not forget, Toyota's more complex engines (diesels for example) have abysmal reliability compared to pretty much anything.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by Nickdfresh
Originally Posted by edyvw
Toyota will move all their engines to 0W8 in no time, regardless that they were developed when 15W40 was norm.
Anything, just not to invest more in engines, bcs. "reliability."


I would bet serious money that Toyota's engine failure rate with their "sewing machine erl'" 0W-20 is well below that of VW using their manly 5W-40's...

And I'm not a fan of either...

It is. No doubt about it. When average Toyota driver drives 30mph below speed limit in left lane, Yugo engine will move most of their cars OK and pretty reliable.
But take into consideration that VW VR6 engines are actually bulletproof and I would bet my money on that engine for longevity any time over 2GR-FE in SIenna.
Do not forget, Toyota's more complex engines (diesels for example) have abysmal reliability compared to pretty much anything.





Can anyone specify which Toyota engine or any engine for that matter was originally specified for 15w40 has been revised to 0w8? Even 0w20?

In all likelihood it's not the same same engine.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted by Michael_P
Quote
2 cycle Detroit Diesels didn't like anything but straight weight oil (40W normal and 30W Artic conditions). They had a severe drinking problem with 15w-40.


Exactly. Anyone who has owned a DD 2 stroke should have gotten the humor.

Apologies; did not see it. Around here people often go straight to hyperbole--if 0W16 is the "new" oil for new cars, then suddenly they think they are being told to run it in their 1950 hooptie. And if it doesn't work well in their hooptie, well then the oil must be junk. No such thing as specialized oils, but somehow one oil is supposed to be the best, regardless of engine innards.

 

[ka9mnx]

Originally Posted by supton

Apologies; did not see it. Around here people often go straight to hyperbole--if 0W16 is the "new" oil for new cars, then suddenly they think they are being told to run it in their 1950 hooptie. And if it doesn't work well in their hooptie, well then the oil must be junk. No such thing as specialized oils, but somehow one oil is supposed to be the best, regardless of engine innards.

Exactly what Ford did when they back-spec'd my '60's designed 300 cu in engine to 5w-20 from 10w-30. I tried it and it was a disaster.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by ka9mnx
Originally Posted by supton

Apologies; did not see it. Around here people often go straight to hyperbole--if 0W16 is the "new" oil for new cars, then suddenly they think they are being told to run it in their 1950 hooptie. And if it doesn't work well in their hooptie, well then the oil must be junk. No such thing as specialized oils, but somehow one oil is supposed to be the best, regardless of engine innards.

Exactly what Ford did when they back-spec'd my '60's designed 300 cu in engine to 5w-20 from 10w-30. I tried it and it was a disaster.

I wouldn't even think of trying a 20 grade in my 88 E-150 4.9L engine, no way no how. I will enjoy reading about someone else who tried it though. Your disaster report is interesting, care to elaborate? TIA

 

[ka9mnx]

I used to be in the "newer is better" and "Ford knows best camp" so I tried it. The engine became unbearably noisy (especially the metal timing gears). I ran it for a while and gave up (sounded like a rod knock). Now I judge what oil to use by which oil keeps the timing gears quiet (I changed over from the nylon cam gear to metal years ago). Ford originally had the metal cam gear but changed it to nylon after consumer complaints of noise.

 

[Chris142]

Wonder if they are going to start using roller needle bearings for main and rod bearings with this thin of an oil?

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted by ka9mnx
I used to be in the "newer is better" and "Ford knows best camp" so I tried it. The engine became unbearably noisy (especially the metal timing gears). I ran it for a while and gave up (sounded like a rod knock). Now I judge what oil to use by which oil keeps the timing gears quiet (I changed over from the nylon cam gear to metal years ago). Ford originally had the metal cam gear but changed it to nylon after consumer complaints of noise.

Thanks. I'm glad I never tried it. I did run 5W20 a while in a 93 Aerostar with the 3.0L 6, [which was back spec'd to 5W20] then gave it a lot of thought and ended up switching it back to 5W30.

 

[aquariuscsm]

I just don't buy into all this thinner oil stuff. I think car manufacturers are just trying to push the envelope to see who can beat who in the gas mileage game.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
I just don't buy into all this thinner oil stuff. I think car manufacturers are just trying to push the envelope to see who can beat who in the gas mileage game.


Meeting ever increasing CAFE standards means more money for the car manufacturers.

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted by edyvw

It is. No doubt about it. When average Toyota driver drives 30mph below speed limit in left lane,


IDK, a bit of an overgeneralization. The Camry is pretty beefy when it comes to horsepower these days...

Quote
Yugo engine will move most of their cars OK and pretty reliable.


Yeah, but the windshields would pop out!

Quote
But take into consideration that VW VR6 engines are actually bulletproof and I would bet my money on that engine for longevity any time over 2GR-FE in SIenna.
Do not forget, Toyota's more complex engines (diesels for example) have abysmal reliability compared to pretty much anything.


No argument on the VR6, it was/is excellent, but the turbos have been problematic. We don't see enough Toyota diesels in this country to really judge. I know Toyota rarely updates their drivetrains and has obsolete engine tech in things like Corollas and whatnot, they've had some missteps with the "sludger" Camrys, etc. But overall, the 0W-20 full syn and blends have not had any serious problems, engine oil isn't even a factor anymore. Takata airbags? A different story...

I seriously doubt they'll advocate 0W-8 in their mainstream internal combustion engines. I think this is more of a future weight for small gas engines tied to a big battery pack...

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted by supton
Originally Posted by Michael_P
Quote
2 cycle Detroit Diesels didn't like anything but straight weight oil (40W normal and 30W Artic conditions). They had a severe drinking problem with 15w-40.


Exactly. Anyone who has owned a DD 2 stroke should have gotten the humor.

Apologies; did not see it. Around here people often go straight to hyperbole--if 0W16 is the "new" oil for new cars, then suddenly they think they are being told to run it in their 1950 hooptie. And if it doesn't work well in their hooptie, well then the oil must be junk. No such thing as specialized oils, but somehow one oil is supposed to be the best, regardless of engine innards.


It has to said that many vehicles in the 40's and 50's ran on SAE20 and even 10W oils depending on the season. You can say those oils were not the same a say a 5W-20 viscosity wise. But then, the current thin weight oils are all light years ahead in terms of their synthetic base oils and blends...

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted by Nickdfresh
IDK, a bit of an overgeneralization. The Camry is pretty beefy when it comes to horsepower these days...

That doesn't mean they use it. I speak from the experience of driving a G37 like a grandmother.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted by Nickdfresh
Originally Posted by edyvw

It is. No doubt about it. When average Toyota driver drives 30mph below speed limit in left lane,


IDK, a bit of an overgeneralization. The Camry is pretty beefy when it comes to horsepower these days...

Quote
Yugo engine will move most of their cars OK and pretty reliable.


Yeah, but the windshields would pop out!

Quote
But take into consideration that VW VR6 engines are actually bulletproof and I would bet my money on that engine for longevity any time over 2GR-FE in SIenna.
Do not forget, Toyota's more complex engines (diesels for example) have abysmal reliability compared to pretty much anything.


No argument on the VR6, it was/is excellent, but the turbos have been problematic. We don't see enough Toyota diesels in this country to really judge. I know Toyota rarely updates their drivetrains and has obsolete engine tech in things like Corollas and whatnot, they've had some missteps with the "sludger" Camrys, etc. But overall, the 0W-20 full syn and blends have not had any serious problems, engine oil isn't even a factor anymore. Takata airbags? A different story...

I seriously doubt they'll advocate 0W-8 in their mainstream internal combustion engines. I think this is more of a future weight for small gas engines tied to a big battery pack...

Camry might have pretty beefy hp (I think they always had) but problem is that rest of vehicle cannot handle it pretty well, especially brakes.
Yugo and popping windshield? I am afraid of that every time I hike up music in Sienna. The amount of rattling in the vehicle is actually worse than in Yugo I had.
There is a reason why Toyota does not bring complex engines to US, among them diesels (I own Land Cruiser diesel in Europe). As for VW turbo? I have one, and would ALWAYS choose one over any Toyota/Lexus turbo vehicle.
There is a reason why Toyota is using rudimentary technology in the US. VW is using in Atlas VR6 for same reason although they have on the shelf available 2.5 VR6 turbo and 3.0 VR6 turbo.

 

[Dad2leia]

Call me late, or ignorant, but I DO see a future for these oils in the premise mentioned above by several...thin oils for a small engine attached to a battery pack hybrid system.

It would stand to reason that also given the stop/start systems out there as well, that this stuff will get to the vitals quickly, given that in the different climates, the oil will a) never get up to temperature to become the weight it is rated at when operating in a colder climate, or b) never really get hot enough in a tropical climate to shear down any.

I know for one, my Kia is rated for 5w20, but reading the manual, I can play with that viscosity based on temperature, from a 0w20 in the arctic to 10w30 in the heat of summer (which is what I have in my crankcase now).

I also do believe that CAFE has a big push for these as well, knowing fuel consumption race, AND that car manufacturers practically want you to step into new wheels justg about every year these days, so you wouldn't be the one worrying about engine longevity anyway.